Spurs @ Suns 10-31-18

[Covert Rain]

Within a few short weeks we will know a couple things IMO. One Igor is not cut out to be an NBA coach or 90% of this roster simply isn't as good as Suns fans thought they were (which wouldn't be the first time). It has to be one or the other or possibly a bit of both.

Yes, we need a PG. Yes we need a PF. However, many teams get to the playoffs with two top tier players on their rosters and various levels of supporting cast.

One x-factor is Ayton is a rookie....so he needs some slack. He deserves to be a rookie so maybe it's a bit harsh. However, Ayton/Booker either is the future or it isn't.

Like I said...abysmal unless something drastically changes.

 

[Mainstreet]

The bright spot for me is the Suns 2018 draft class. Ayton, Bridges and Okobo all look like they are going to have a bright future. This is the first time I can remember the Suns hitting on three draft picks since the multiple round drafts but the 1988 draft was not too bad though with the selections of Tim Perry, Dan Majerle and Andrew Lang.

However, the Suns should be a better team than what they are with Booker, Warren, Ayton, Bridges and Okobo. This Suns team actually has some talent. They should not be getting blown out with regularity.

The Suns will become almost unwatchable if they continue to be run over by 20 plus points a game. The Suns simply aren't competing on defense. I've seen very bad teams compete on defense so there is no excuse. I'm not seeing the effort. Something is awry besides lack of talent.

 

[Mainstreet]

And Eddie Johnson. He's talked about fatigue to Devin more than once on the air, including tonight.

He added that if DBook is going to keep covering the Point when he returns, he better start doing stretching exercises if he expects to play healthy.

All of us together don't have the expertise of EJ. (No smiley face needed here.)


Edit" 'Sorry for my similar responses to two separate posts appearing back-to-back.

Booker being out and which is the Suns worst team go hand in hand.

I agree that Booker should not be starting at point guard. Okobo or Canaan should get this duty. He was never meant to start at this position but rather play point guard to take advantage of match-ups and in special situations like the end of games.

 

[Raindog]

I think the issue with Igor might be that he's a tactician rather than a motivator/leader type. In other words, an ideal assistant... that's where he has made his career mark, after all... but quite possibly not real HC material. That may be what we are bearing witness to right now.

 

[Mainstreet]

So why don't the Suns play with more energy?

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[Raindog]

Undoubtedly, Booker being out to start (most of) the season has been a real letdown and probably killed team morale, in addition to all the shellshock resulting from the early blowouts. Momentum has definitely been going in a backwards direction - never a good thing when you have basically a very young team.

I also don't think the idiotic timing of firing McD just before the season started helped at all. Even if he probably should have been fired at some point, the timing of it was bad from both an optics standpoint and setting a negative tone for the start of the season. There was really no good reason not to wait until the season got going and maybe doing it at mid-season or something. It would have been a lot less of a distraction and gave less of an impression of the organization being as dysfunctional as it in fact really is.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Within a few short weeks we will know a couple things IMO. One Igor is not cut out to be an NBA coach or 90% of this roster simply isn't as good as Suns fans thought they were (which wouldn't be the first time). It has to be one or the other or possibly a bit of both.

Yes, we need a PG. Yes we need a PF. However, many teams get to the playoffs with two top tier players on their rosters and various levels of supporting cast.

One x-factor is Ayton is a rookie....so he needs some slack. He deserves to be a rookie so maybe it's a bit harsh. However, Ayton/Booker either is the future or it isn't.

Like I said...abysmal unless something drastically changes.

Unfortunately we don't have two top tier players (yet) and we really don't have much of a "supporting" cast. But I really don't know if it's a lack of quality coaching, a lack of talent or a lack of experience that is hurting us the most.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I agree but it is going to take monumental growth from all four rookies and JJ. Monumental. I don’t expect booker to improve defensively. It’s disappointung, but I’ve made peace with it. He will never be an mvp candidate because of it. So we have to pin all hope on big growth spurts from JJ, Ayton, Bridges, okobo and Melton.

I think we are all disappointed because we overrated the overall roster. This is my take on the roster so far:

1. Booker is a great scorer, but below average defensive player. He has to be surrounded by a very wing defender to mask this deficiency. I don't think this deficiency is covered.

2. Ayton will be a great center...will be...but he is currently probably best suited to be the 3rd best player on a good team. He is the teams best hope for improvement right now.

3. Josh Jackson is trying to do too much right now, but the problem is without a primary ball handler to take over games, Jackson looks like he is being asked to be a playmaker at times. Maybe he takes his lumps and grows from this, but right now he is severely hurting the team. Jackson just can't be asked to be a key cog right now, he needs to settle more into being a cutter/slasher and to only take wide open spot up jumpers. His defense hasn't been as advertised right now, and the team needs to get him to settle into just being a 3 and D wing right now. I think he's one of the biggest contributors to this team being bad right now.

4. TJ Warren....has taken another step up with developing a 3 point shot. Does he start? Is he the sixth man? He isn't a ideal 4, so if he starts, he should get looked at as 3. This is a problem; He should be starting over Jackson, but Jackson can't be relied upon to be the sixth man or leader of the second unit.

5. Bridges....probably should be starting as well. This log jam at the 3 needs to be worked out. I think the #1 fix for the short term problem is to increase Bridges minutes and decrease Jacksons. If he continues to flash, move Jackson down in the rotation, and move Bridges up.

6. Now we start getting deeper into the rotation, and you start to see WHY the Suns suck right now. Ariza hasn't been good, Anderson hasn't been good, Okobo is promising but not quite ready yet, Canaan is probably at best a 3rd PG. This team just severely lacks depth and 2 of the 5 starting positions are consistently underachieving.

This is my fix:

1. Start Okobo. The Suns should just take their lumps right now and let the young guy play. I think if you review the tape so far, he's been the best PG on the team.
2. Start Bridges. Make the move now, Bridges has looked good so far.
3. Starters: Okobo, Booker, Bridges, Ariza/Anderson (Based on matchup but I lean Ariza), and Ayton.
4. 2nd unit: Canaan, Daniels, Jackson, Warren, and Chandler/Holmes. Yeah this second unit sucks, but the there is some three point shooting and some scoring.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Unfortunately we don't have two top tier players (yet) and we really don't have much of a "supporting" cast. But I really don't know if it's a lack of quality coaching, a lack of talent or a lack of experience that is hurting us the most.

It's hard to separate poor coaching or lack of talent right now. I would lean lack of talent because the players just look poopy right now.

 

[Covert Rain]

However, the Suns should be a better team than what they are with Booker, Warren, Ayton, Bridges and Okobo. This Suns team actually has some talent. They should not be getting blown out with regularity.

Sort of agree with this. I think the jury is still out on Bridges and Okobo. They have to show a ton more consistency. I am still struggling with the fact that Igor thinks that one of our best players should come of the bench. Plus again, he is not really showing much in terms of his coaching skills IMO.

I think we know more in the next month or so about Igor and the real talent level on this team.

 

[overseascardfan]

Sort of agree with this. I think the jury is still out on Bridges and Okobo. They have to show a ton more consistency. I am still struggling with the fact that Igor thinks that one of our best players should come of the bench. Plus again, he is not really showing much in terms of his coaching skills IMO.

I think we know more in the next month or so about Igor and the real talent level on this team.

In order to develop consistency, they need consistent minutes.

 

[Mainstreet]

Sort of agree with this. I think the jury is still out on Bridges and Okobo. They have to show a ton more consistency. I am still struggling with the fact that Igor thinks that one of our best players should come of the bench. Plus again, he is not really showing much in terms of his coaching skills IMO.

I think we know more in the next month or so about Igor and the real talent level on this team.

I agree with you about knowing more about Igor in the next month. I'm not concerned with wins and losses so much since the Suns have sealed their fate by not acquiring a veteran point guard.

The part that concerns me most about the Suns is their lack of fire. I'm just not seeing it. There is no excuse for that.

I have high hopes for this draft class. I'm seeing what I want to see from them. Unfortunately the Suns have some gaping holes at power forward and point guard that need to be filled. The Suns need more talent but that alone is not the entire answer.

 

[ArizonaSportsFan]

I agree with you about knowing more about Igor in the next month. I'm not concerned with wins and losses so much since the Suns have sealed their fate by not acquiring a veteran point guard.

The part that concerns me most about the Suns is their lack of fire. I'm just not seeing it. There is no excuse for that.

I have high hopes for this draft class. I'm seeing what I want to see from them. Unfortunately the Suns have some gaping holes at power forward and point guard that need to be filled. The Suns need more talent but that alone is not the entire answer.

Is that on the coach, though? I am torn on this. These guys are (supposed to be) professionals. Do they need a cheerleader/taskmaster stomping on the sidelines to get them motivated? Or is it that the coach should be pulling them? If the latter, the Suns couldn't field 5 players.
Is Igor patient, or passive? He is not sitting on the bench shaking his head during the games. He doesn't look bewildered or like it is too big for him. He is up calling plays, coaching players during free-throws or as they come off the floor. I like his demeanor, but perhaps I am misreading things.

 

[Cheesebeef]

here are my fears with Koko... both when we hired him and now:

1. McD head coach hiring track record: McD seemingly had no clue what he was doing in almost any area of the team and that included hiring terrible predecessors with Horny and Watson.

2. He never got a Head Coaching job interview ANYWHERE else in the NBA during 20 years of coaching.

3. I know people are going to bring up that he got a lot of love on twitter after the hiring, but I can't help but wonder now if that was the equivalent of parents and players going nuts when the worst, most unlikeliest of kids on soccer, baseball and football fields does something good for the first time and people are elated for that woeful kid because they never thought he'd get any moment in the Sun.

4. The flat out lack of effort/D we see on the court. I get that we have really young talent and really old... well... non-talent at this point. But in the games I've watched they have been so freaking wretched almost from the get the go and there is RARELY any fight in them once they face adversary. At the point they get down 7-11 points, they just completely collapse, offering up another 30 burger. Without Booker, I expect us to struggle on O, but the very least a good coach can do is get a team to play hard on D. Doesn't mean they're necessarily good on D. But I just see lack of effort... EVERYWHERE.

5. Not making Ayton the centerpiece to the offense when Booker's out. Even though he's a baby in age on the court, at this point Ayton is STILL the smarter/most effective offensive player. A guy who actually demands double team and can draw some defense toward him to get others open. Yet, we continue to play outside-in... with a bunch of guys who can't shoot from the outside, nor penetrate.

6. Overall, I just can't believe how ATROCIOUS this team is. Again, I didn't expect this team to be anything even remotely close to even mediocre, predicting 28-31 wins, but for them to be even more embarrassing than last year's start would have seem impossible before the season.

Man... this just sucks.

 

[Hoop Head]

The only excuse for Warren not starting regularly is that some team that was interested in trading for him asked to see him in a 'super sub' sort of 6th man role. That would be the only thing that makes sense but even then, they had their look and if he goes back to the bench to start Anderson that would highlight how out of touch Igor is as a head coach.

 

[Suns_fan69]

here are my fears with Koko... both when we hired him and now:

1. McD head coach hiring track record: McD seemingly had no clue what he was doing in almost any area of the team and that included hiring terrible predecessors with Horny and Watson.

2. He never got a Head Coaching job interview ANYWHERE else in the NBA during 20 years of coaching.

3. I know people are going to bring up that he got a lot of love on twitter after the hiring, but I can't help but wonder now if that was the equivalent of parents and players going nuts when the worst, most unlikeliest of kids on soccer, baseball and football fields does something good for the first time and people are elated for that woeful kid because they never thought he'd get any moment in the Sun.

4. The flat out lack of effort/D we see on the court. I get that we have really young talent and really old... well... non-talent at this point. But in the games I've watched they have been so freaking wretched almost from the get the go and there is RARELY any fight in them once they face adversary. At the point they get down 7-11 points, they just completely collapse, offering up another 30 burger. Without Booker, I expect us to struggle on O, but the very least a good coach can do is get a team to play hard on D. Doesn't mean they're necessarily good on D. But I just see lack of effort... EVERYWHERE.

5. Not making Ayton the centerpiece to the offense when Booker's out. Even though he's a baby in age on the court, at this point Ayton is STILL the smarter/most effective offensive player. A guy who actually demands double team and can draw some defense toward him to get others open. Yet, we continue to play outside-in... with a bunch of guys who can't shoot from the outside, nor penetrate.

6. Overall, I just can't believe how ATROCIOUS this team is. Again, I didn't expect this team to be anything even remotely close to even mediocre, predicting 28-31 wins, but for them to be even more embarrassing than last year's start would have seem impossible before the season.

Man... this just sucks.

Bang on. The effort on D is the big one for me. I haven't ever seen him get riled up on the sidelines either. Not even for a call. I get having to be even keeled throughout a long season, but it certainly feels like the apathy starts with him. I dunno, maybe I'm reading too much into it.

You know it's bad when there's news about JR Smith wanting out of Cleveland and my first thought is that he couldn't be any worse than the guys we already have...(no, I'm not advocating we go after him).

 

[Mainstreet]

Is that on the coach, though? I am torn on this. These guys are (supposed to be) professionals. Do they need a cheerleader/taskmaster stomping on the sidelines to get them motivated? Or is it that the coach should be pulling them? If the latter, the Suns couldn't field 5 players.
Is Igor patient, or passive? He is not sitting on the bench shaking his head during the games. He doesn't look bewildered or like it is too big for him. He is up calling plays, coaching players during free-throws or as they come off the floor. I like his demeanor, but perhaps I am misreading things.

It's the coach's job to get the players ready to play.

I can understand the Suns may not be winning due to a lack of talent however I expect them to play hard on defense. It's difficult to know where to lay the blame but my expectations from the coach was a well organized team that plays smart. Some of this may come with time but the Suns shouldn't look like a train wreck.

Always waiting for the next draft and free agency is not working.

 

[Chaplin]

here are my fears with Koko... both when we hired him and now:

2. He never got a Head Coaching job interview ANYWHERE else in the NBA during 20 years of coaching.

Your other points are valid, but how can you possibly know this?

 

[Cheesebeef]

Your other points are valid, but how can you possibly know this?

because I've never seen it reported. I combed through the google for igor interviews over the last three seasons for head coaching positions and came up with bubkis. I definitely might be wrong there, but I'm not finding evidence of him ever being a head coaching candidate somewhere in what little research I did. All we do know for sure is that he didn't get one interview last off-season to be a HC outside of us... i think. I'm almost certain we know that's correct.

 

[JustWinBaby]

because I've never seen it reported. I combed through the google for igor interviews over the last three seasons for head coaching positions and came up with bubkis. I definitely might be wrong there, but I'm not finding evidence of him ever being a head coaching candidate somewhere in what little research I did. All we do know for sure is that he didn't get one interview last off-season to be a HC outside of us... i think. I'm almost certain we know that's correct.

The only head coaching experience that I heard about was Coaching Doncic and Dragic to the Euro Championship. I have no reason to doubt Cheese's report on no other NBA head coaching interviews for Igor other than the Suns.

When we hired him I actually thought it was a foregone conclusion that we would draft Doncic and trade for Dragic. I also thought we could pick up a center that could rebound and defend later in the draft. I was excited about that prospect.

I have never been sold on Ayton and I should be.

I have no idea where we go from here. We really have no tradeable assets that anyone would want.

I also have zero confidence in James Jones as McDonough's replacement. He could actually be worse. Why in the world did we sign Jamal Crawford? He could make McDonough seem like a genius if he keeps this up.

 

[sunsfan88]

This is probably the highlight of Gambo’s career. I can’t disagree with a word he says. Highly recommend to listen to this

https://omny.fm/shows/burns-gambo/november-1-2018-gambo-rants-on-the-suns-1-6-start

 

[Mainstreet]

I think we are all disappointed because we overrated the overall roster. This is my take on the roster so far:

1. Booker is a great scorer, but below average defensive player. He has to be surrounded by a very wing defender to mask this deficiency. I don't think this deficiency is covered.

2. Ayton will be a great center...will be...but he is currently probably best suited to be the 3rd best player on a good team. He is the teams best hope for improvement right now.

3. Josh Jackson is trying to do too much right now, but the problem is without a primary ball handler to take over games, Jackson looks like he is being asked to be a playmaker at times. Maybe he takes his lumps and grows from this, but right now he is severely hurting the team. Jackson just can't be asked to be a key cog right now, he needs to settle more into being a cutter/slasher and to only take wide open spot up jumpers. His defense hasn't been as advertised right now, and the team needs to get him to settle into just being a 3 and D wing right now. I think he's one of the biggest contributors to this team being bad right now.

4. TJ Warren....has taken another step up with developing a 3 point shot. Does he start? Is he the sixth man? He isn't a ideal 4, so if he starts, he should get looked at as 3. This is a problem; He should be starting over Jackson, but Jackson can't be relied upon to be the sixth man or leader of the second unit.

5. Bridges....probably should be starting as well. This log jam at the 3 needs to be worked out. I think the #1 fix for the short term problem is to increase Bridges minutes and decrease Jacksons. If he continues to flash, move Jackson down in the rotation, and move Bridges up.

6. Now we start getting deeper into the rotation, and you start to see WHY the Suns suck right now. Ariza hasn't been good, Anderson hasn't been good, Okobo is promising but not quite ready yet, Canaan is probably at best a 3rd PG. This team just severely lacks depth and 2 of the 5 starting positions are consistently underachieving.

This is my fix:

1. Start Okobo. The Suns should just take their lumps right now and let the young guy play. I think if you review the tape so far, he's been the best PG on the team.
2. Start Bridges. Make the move now, Bridges has looked good so far.
3. Starters: Okobo, Booker, Bridges, Ariza/Anderson (Based on matchup but I lean Ariza), and Ayton.
4. 2nd unit: Canaan, Daniels, Jackson, Warren, and Chandler/Holmes. Yeah this second unit sucks, but the there is some three point shooting and some scoring.

Some good thoughts here. I think I choose Ariza to start at PF as well.

 

[Superbone]

This is probably the highlight of Gambo’s career. I can’t disagree with a word he says. Highly recommend to listen to this

https://omny.fm/shows/burns-gambo/november-1-2018-gambo-rants-on-the-suns-1-6-start

He's right. Watching this year's Suns makes me angry.

 

[Errntknght]

I think that Igor's only HC has been for his national team and you don't have to motivate
players when they're on the floor for their country. He's got nothing like that going for him in the NBA. The biggest motivation in the NBA is the players professional pride and Igor probably doesn't know how to tap into that very well. Some players develop pride in their team, in the
sense of their fellow players and not the formal team. Some coaches are leaders with some charisma and their players don't want to let them down - Pops is probably an example of that, Kawhi nonwithstanding - and Igor doesn't seem to be one.

The team did seem to be bonding over the summer but it could have just been wishful thinking on everyone's part. There is no apparent cohesiveness at the present. Perhaps it was there but the dropping of some guys like Big Sauce, Ulis, Harrison el al destroyed it.

Firing McD certainly had to be a blow to the gut for Igor if no one else. No idea what his relationship with Sarver is, though Sarver is not someone who insprires trust in his employees, so I imagine he's on edge about his job status.

All in all, there seems to very little working in this teams favor, probably not even excitement of the part of the fans. The Madhouse on McDowell only lives on as a faint memory for a few oldtimers.

 

[Mainstreet]

I think that Igor's only HC has been for his national team and you don't have to motivate
players when they're on the floor for their country. He's got nothing like that going for him in the NBA. The biggest motivation in the NBA is the players professional pride and Igor probably doesn't know how to tap into that very well. Some players develop pride in their team, in the
sense of their fellow players and not the formal team. Some coaches are leaders with some charisma and their players don't want to let them down - Pops is probably an example of that, Kawhi nonwithstanding - and Igor doesn't seem to be one.

The team did seem to be bonding over the summer but it could have just been wishful thinking on everyone's part. There is no apparent cohesiveness at the present. Perhaps it was there but the dropping of some guys like Big Sauce, Ulis, Harrison el al destroyed it.

Firing McD certainly had to be a blow to the gut for Igor if no one else. No idea what his relationship with Sarver is, though Sarver is not someone who insprires trust in his employees, so I imagine he's on edge about his job status.

All in all, there seems to very little working in this teams favor, probably not even excitement of the part of the fans. The Madhouse on McDowell only lives on as a faint memory for a few oldtimers.

It is looking more and more like the Suns should have kept Harrison around because of his intensity on defense.

Maybe he could have inspired some of the other players to put forth more effort on this end of the court.