Star Wars: The Mandalorian (Disney+)

[puckhead]

@carrrnuttt I've seen A. in several places as well, and there are more expansive theories (at least one quite intriguing) out there about how.

We may want a new thread to cover this convo, because it doesn't appear to be going away.

EDIT:

Do We Need a Star Wars Redo?

 

[Covert Rain]

It's not going to piss fans off except for the Reylo shippers. Most are pissed off at the way Luke, Leia, and Han were butchered in the Disney trilogy. We never even got a scene with all three of them back together. It was a travesty. The new trilogy didn't spawn insanely popular characters either. It was just the shippers. The non-existent merchandise sales showed that. Toys and everything tanked.

Unfortunately we've lost Carrie for anything new and Ford sounds like he's done playing Han. Mark seems like he's be down for new stuff though it it was along the lines of the OT and Mandalorian and not him playing Jake Skywalker again. There's also a rumor that there was a scene shot with the three mains together again that could be used in something going forward if true.

And I'd rather see them just decanonize the DT over going the multiverse route but there's probably no chance of that as long as Kennedy is around.

People love the main characters. A redo would be like they never existed. Like how they handled the original characters or not there is no redo. Not with Carrie gone. I liked the new trilogy and so did millions of fans. Sure, TLJ was an abomination and the last film was too "fan friendly" but it is what it is.

Redo's are extremely unpopular in general with fans. The only reason it's accepted here is because the multiverse idea is ingrained in the hero genre of stories. Star Wars? Not so much. Hell even Marvel is bring back TM in Spiderman verses letting that version lay dead. The only way I could see this working is to allow the popular characters from the new trilogy cross over in a multi-verse scenario verses a lazy write off that it was another verse so...don't pay attention to it.

 

[Chaplin]

You think fans were pissed when they threw the extended universe into the trash? Oh...just wait if they try and do this. This is the best idea they can come up with? Lazy.

Look I know the new trilogy isn't perfect by any stretch but it would in essence throw out the swan song of Carrie, Mark and Harrison which despite everything would piss fans off even more IMO. Despite what some people think of the new trilogy it spawned insanely popular characters.

Spoiler

In the animation they sort of hinted this idea of a multi-verse but it was focused on time not alternate universes. The one part of the Thrawn trilogy story line could easily be explained why Luke never mentioned it in the new trilogy (twins, Mara). He hid them or she did. You know..the staple in Star Wars....history repeating itself.

Seems like this multiverse idea is a conveniently sloppy solution to say the least.

Yeah I think you underestimate just how much the fans disliked the sequel trilogy.

 

[Chaplin]

People love the main characters. A redo would be like they never existed. Like how they handled the original characters or not there is no redo. Not with Carrie gone. I liked the new trilogy and so did millions of fans. Sure, TLJ was an abomination and the last film was too "fan friendly" but it is what it is.

Redo's are extremely unpopular in general with fans. The only reason it's accepted here is because the multiverse idea is ingrained in the hero genre of stories. Star Wars? Not so much. Hell even Marvel is bring back TM in Spiderman verses letting that version lay dead. The only way I could see this working is to allow the popular characters from the new trilogy cross over in a multi-verse scenario verses a lazy write off that it was another verse so...don't pay attention to it.

Which main characters are you talking about? I'm not sure there are many people who "love" Rey, Finn and Kylo Renn. Not to mention Poe. None of them were that good, although I did appreciate Adam Driver's acting skill.

I'm not a fan of the multiverse concept, I'd be more inclined to accept a complete retcon and disregard the sequels as never happening.

 

[WaywardFan]

I liked Rey, Finn and Poe. I know there are huge Mary Sue complaints about Rey, and making her Palpy was an attempt to explain that away. I'd argue that Anakin and Luke were just as Gary Stu-ish but I understand the complaints. My favorite was Finn. I think he had the best POTENTIAL story arc and he's the one I'd most like to see keep going. I would enjoy seeing those three in more stuff (given a good story and a halfway decent director) but if the rumors are true it is very unlikely to happen.

 

[WaywardFan]

Who else hopes the new season of Mando is the quest to retake Mandalore, and who will rule it? Give me more Bo-Katan!

This is the way.

 

[Chaplin]

I liked Rey, Finn and Poe. I know there are huge Mary Sue complaints about Rey, and making her Palpy was an attempt to explain that away. I'd argue that Anakin and Luke were just as Gary Stu-ish but I understand the complaints. My favorite was Finn. I think he had the best POTENTIAL story arc and he's the one I'd most like to see keep going. I would enjoy seeing those three in more stuff (given a good story and a halfway decent director) but if the rumors are true it is very unlikely to happen.

I think on paper all 3 of those characters start out in interesting places, but none of them progressed on screen. Rey was the best of the bunch, but she played the series as Luke Part 2 and just seemed to not know what was going on around her. Finn started with the best premise out of all of them, but they gave him very little to do. The whole casino thing in TLJ and the horses on spaceships in RoS were the most memorable things about him, and not in a good way. And Poe, well, I like Oscar Isaac, but he just wasn't interesting.

And since they basically minimized the entire original cast, it just didn't work. Mark Hamill, especially was simply wasted. And I know he at least is very open to trying again.

 

[Covert Rain]

Which main characters are you talking about? I'm not sure there are many people who "love" Rey, Finn and Kylo Renn. Not to mention Poe. None of them were that good, although I did appreciate Adam Driver's acting skill.

I'm not a fan of the multiverse concept, I'd be more inclined to accept a complete retcon and disregard the sequels as never happening.

I think main characters is pretty clear. Rey is awesome. Finn is pretty popular as well. We agree that Poe was a bit of a waste even though I did like his character. TLJ tried to give him more of in depth of a part but the overall movie detracted from that.

Yeah I think you underestimate just how much the fans disliked the sequel trilogy.

I think you are overestimating it. If you are talking about "old folks" who loved the original there is no pleasing them. EVER. There are millions of fans who loved the prequels. Same goes with the new trilogy. Don't get me wrong. Wasted potential after the first movie. It was setup to be something special and TLJ just tanked it.

Still lazy as hell just to say....woops....it doesn't count.

 

[Chaplin]

I think main characters is pretty clear. Rey is awesome. Finn is pretty popular as well. We agree that Poe was a bit of a waste even though I did like his character. TLJ tried to give him more of in depth of a part but the overall movie detracted from that.



I think you are overestimating it. If you are talking about "old folks" who loved the original there is no pleasing them. EVER. There are millions of fans who loved the prequels. Same goes with the new trilogy. Don't get me wrong. Wasted potential after the first movie. It was setup to be something special and TLJ just tanked it.

Still lazy as hell just to say....woops....it doesn't count.

Lazy? Come on.

 

[Town Drunk]

They finally fired Gina Carano.

https://comicbook.com/tv-shows/news...Dn1uw2KbaoHEB585QQcwPdA0G4GiJsKCRyhkY_LhyydPs

 

[Chaplin]

They finally fired Gina Carano.

https://comicbook.com/tv-shows/news...Dn1uw2KbaoHEB585QQcwPdA0G4GiJsKCRyhkY_LhyydPs

I’m surprised it took this long.

 

[Covert Rain]

Lazy? Come on.

Yes lazy. Did you forget the massive hate for the prequels? I mean...why not just pretend they were never done? Come on. So, people were disappointed. There is nothing in those stories that ruins the story arc of the franchise for future films. Do you really think people are just going to pretend the other stuff doesn't exist? Come on.

 

[Chaplin]

Yes lazy. Did you forget the massive hate for the prequels? I mean...why not just pretend they were never done? Come on. So, people were disappointed. There is nothing in those stories that ruins the story arc of the franchise for future films. Do you really think people are just going to pretend the other stuff doesn't exist? Come on.

At the very least the third prequel was better than any of the sequel movies.

 

[Covert Rain]

At the very least the third prequel was better than any of the sequel movies.

Third prequel was by far my favorite of the other two despite the piss poor and underdeveloped.... I turned to the dark side aspect of the film. TFA is also one my favorites of all the films.

 

[Chaplin]

Third prequel was by far my favorite of the other two despite the piss poor and underdeveloped.... I turned to the dark side aspect of the film. TFA is also one my favorites of all the films.

TFA was easily the best of the sequels, sure. But not better than the three originals, the third prequel and Rogue One. That makes it average at best and the other movies bring it down.

 

[vince56]

Jumping in because there's a point missing here. The prequels were poorly acted and poorly made, however the lore and the plot of each film were very good. Nearly all of it fits like a puzzle piece with the original movies (sans Leia's memory of her mother). Think about it this way, if you describe the plot of each prequel, they sound like they would be amazing:

For example:
TPM - The Sith reveal themselves, create a political quagmire around a peaceful planet leading to war. Meanwhile the Jedi encounter the Sith for the first time in 1000 years, both sides spill blood, and the child that would become Darth Vader is thrust into action before he can understand what's happening. World-building exposition includes the background of galactic politics, what the republic looked like before the empire, and set up that there is a large contingent of Jedi closely tied, too closely tied, to galactic politics. We see Jedi and Sith in their prime and powerful.

That sounds amazing IMO. I just wish someone other than George Lucas would have directed it and written the dialogue, as the film comes nowhere close to the quality of the plot synopsis.

Now for the sequels - they tell repeat stories, mess with lore (Why didn't Obi Wan just force heal Qui-Gon's lightsaber wound?), and overall just don't make any sense. TFA was a good reboot, TLJ was a sophomoric dud, and TROS is one bad Deus Ex Machina after another through an insane plot at breakneck speed so you don't have the chance to think about how each scene didn't make any sense. Then it ends in EXACTLY the same place as ROTJ, just 30 years later with new characters. No new lore, no plan, terrible storytelling. Great visuals though.

IDK, if they could have ended TLJ on a cliffhanger when Ben reaches out his hand to Rey and it just cuts to credits there, it might have worked better. I read through the script for Duel of the Fates, the Colin Trevorrow version of Ep IX, and while it's not outstanding, it made much more sense in the greater lore of SW and would have at least stuck the landing of the trilogy.

If they ever decided to do a modified version of Timothy Zahn's Thrawn Trilogy of films with new actors and say the sequel trilogy is no longer canon, I'd be the first in line. It feels like the Mandalorian is already going in that direction, which is great. I'd love to see more of Jedi Master Luke and his adventure

 

[WaywardFan]

The flaw in the prequels was George, sad to say. He insisted on writing and directing. I read the novelizations and they were much better than the movies. In RotS, you can actually believe WHY Anakin fell to the darkside and there was a build up to it. You don't believe it in the movies.

FWIW, I like the RoS better than CT's Ep IX but that's mostly because it destroyed TLJ and had great fan service. There's actually nothing wrong with the latter.

 

[Cheesebeef]

The flaw in the prequels was George, sad to say. He insisted on writing and directing. I read the novelizations and they were much better than the movies. In RotS, you can actually believe WHY Anakin fell to the darkside and there was a build up to it. You don't believe it in the movies.

FWIW, I like the RoS better than CT's Ep IX but that's mostly because it destroyed TLJ and had great fan service. There's actually nothing wrong with the latter.

yup. conceptually, the prequels were pretty epic stories about the fall of a republic and it turning into an evil empire. the execution was just horrific.

I couldn't even tell you what the story was in the sequels to the OT. Were the first order ruling the galaxy? why was there a "resistance" as opposed to just... the republic fighting against them. were they terrorists? what's the point of making a snoke? is there ANYTHING new in this trilogy?

 

[Covert Rain]

TFA was easily the best of the sequels, sure. But not better than the three originals, the third prequel and Rogue One. That makes it average at best and the other movies bring it down.

Disagree. TFA is just as good IMO as the third prequel for sure. Conceptually the third was better than in execution.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

If George truly had 7-9 plotted out (as rumors going back decades have stated), I really wish he had made those first and waited on the prequels. The sequel trilogy could have been made while the main cast was still in their prime. Imagine how well a follow-up trilogy would have done with the big trio and supporting cast members doing their thing - even if there was a transition to some other stars (not sure which direction Lucas would have gone...). The prequels could have been made at any time and still could have been part of his big sale to Disney. At least Disney would have had a structured trilogy to put together rather than the jumbled mess they did on their own with episodes 7-9. Then again, maybe we'd still be having this discussion because Disney botched the prequels... You never know.

 

[Chaplin]

Disagree. TFA is just as good IMO as the third prequel for sure. Conceptually the third was better than in execution.

TFA was a remake of Star Wars. I'm curious to know why you think it's so good.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Disagree. TFA is just as good IMO as the third prequel for sure. Conceptually the third was better than in execution.

i’d put it up there with Sith. The first half of TFA is pretty damn great. It introduces some great new characters (Rey and Finn), new dynamics to the world (Female lead, a stormtrooper who bails on the empire) has a KILLER set piece with the Falcon chase inside the beached Star Destroyer and then brings us Han and Chewie for some great nostalgic fun.

the second half of the movie is a pretty pathetic rehash of the ANH.

Sith? Again, conceptually the story is interesting, the opening space battle and Dooku battle is pretty kick ass, Orb Opera scene is great and the rest pretty much sucks ass. Christiansen is like a wood board acting, Obi-Wan is off fighting some villain we’ve never even met until ten seconds ago, the Jedi become the single dumbest group of mind-readers ever, Chewy is thrown in for no reason whatsoever, the lava battle looks cool, but again Christiansen is laughably over the top and then they even botched Vaders awakening and first moments with NOOOOOOOO!!!

Yoda v. Emperor was cool though.

so I give TFA the nod simply for the first half which seemed to give us the best of both new and old worlds... before just giving up.

 

[Chaplin]

i’d put it up there with Sith. The first half of TFA is pretty damn great. It introduces some great new characters (Rey and Finn), new dynamics to the world (Female lead, a stormtrooper who bails on the empire) has a KILLER set piece with the Falcon chase inside the beached Star Destroyer and then brings us Han and Chewie for some great nostalgic fun.

the second half of the movie is a pretty pathetic rehash of the ANH.

Sith? Again, conceptually the story is interesting, the opening space battle and Dooku battle is pretty kick ass, Orb Opera scene is great and the rest pretty much sucks ass. Christiansen is like a wood board acting, Obi-Wan is off fighting some villain we’ve never even met until ten seconds ago, the Jedi become the single dumbest group of mind-readers ever, Chewy is thrown in for no reason whatsoever, the lava battle looks cool, but again Christiansen is laughably over the top and then they even botched Vaders awakening and first moments with NOOOOOOOO!!!

Yoda v. Emperor was cool though.

so I give TFA the nod simply for the first half which seemed to give us the best of both new and old worlds... before just giving up.

I will go further and say TFA introduces the PROSPECT of two good characters that are never realized. So I would disagree that they were introduced as "great" characters. They had great potential, but none of it was actually fallen through. I didn't like Poe's introduction in the first half of the movie, but Kylo Ren was good. Of course Han and Chewie are great to see, but I felt like the questions about Rey (is she a Skywalker?) really overwhelmed any possible character development for her, especially in that first half of the movie. Her character got better as it went on, but nothing even approaching any of the previous film characters.

I agree about Christiansen in any of the movies, but Vince explained it well that the story was much better in Sith -- better than any story in the sequels, whether it's the main 3-movie arc or any of the minor storylines.

 

[WaywardFan]

If George truly had 7-9 plotted out (as rumors going back decades have stated), I really wish he had made those first and waited on the prequels. The sequel trilogy could have been made while the main cast was still in their prime.

This was the first, largest mistake in ALL of this.

 

[carrrnuttt]

I think you are overestimating it. If you are talking about "old folks" who loved the original there is no pleasing them. EVER.

THIS is a massive undersell.

I've watched dozens of reaction videos and there were only a minority of them that were "old folks." The more vocal ones on the interwebs right now calling to forget the sequel trilogy are younger folks who watched the OT on video, not the least of which is "Star Wars Theory" who didn't watch the OT until the 90's as a kid.

Even I never saw all the OT in theaters. The only one I got to see was ROTJ as I was too young for the other two when they came out respectively.

You act like only older people who saw the OT in theaters were the only ones who became fans of it.

Here's a small sample of people who did reactions to the Mando S2 Finale:

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