Status of the line heading into the off-season

[BritCard]

I dont know if thats 100% accurate, but it sure paints a disappointing picture. We have been hearing for 2 years that this was the offseason we could spend money and upgrade talent.

I will be VERY disappointed if we end up spending 25% of our money on Humphries and Shipley. They just aren't that good.

I think as you said, Cole could do just as well, and a 2nd round pick at Center would be an upgrade.

At LT, Thomas would be an upgrade, but if we don't spend that 1st round pick on defense it's looking like we are not going to be able to upgrade much.

Do you let Hump, AQ, and Drake all walk...and spend your first 3 picks on LT, OC, and RB? You might end up with 3 superior players and an extra ~25 million to spend on the defense.

I promise you it's accurate. I don't post without doing my research.

We don't have nearly as much money as we have been lead to believe.

We can of course backload some deals but that's what Keim always does which is why we keep finding ourselves in the same situation.

 

[CardNots]

Thanks mate.

ROTB is great for content and I applaud Seth and the staff there for their editorial work but they treat users like ungrateful children. You have to take thier opinion as gospel or be treated like a naughty boy for daring to have a different opinion .

a statement of truth

 

[football karma]

That's $48m gone on just resigning offensive players.

Take off another $9m in rookie draft pool. That's $57m.

one nit: while the rookie pool will be around $9mm, it wont consume that much cap space.

cap measures top 53 players -- and for every rookie signed, it knocks another roster player out of the top 53. the "cap impact" of the rookie pool tends to be around 60% of the pool (varies-- it will be a higher % if a team has multiple first rounders, as an example)

that suggests cap space of $21mm or so to sign players -- and you can get 4 guys for that: 1 big dollar guy + 3 mid tier solid starters of varying degrees

 

[Krangodnzr]

@Chopper0080 @DVontel

One guy who has piqued my interest for RT, is Zach Banner from the Steelers.

He was a big time player at USC who had weight issues early on and struggled to make teams. Hes now been on the Steelers roster for 2 seasons and has a 75 grade from PFF this year.

6'8, 340. Guys like him sometimes work out big if he is signed on a 2 year deal. The tackle pool is shockingly bad this offseason, and the Cardinals may be smart to keep Justin Murray and bring in a young veteran with upside to compete.

The obvious problem with Banner is that he really only fits at RT, so if he doesnt start, he likely doesnt have positional versatility to backup multiple positions.

 

[TheCardFan]

Dennis Kelly (Titans) is another guy like that (RT only) but has played more.

Want a 1 year rental at LT while you develop a draft pick? - Jason Peters.

Weak T free agent pool at DJ is still only #15.

Maybe we can trade DJ to the Browns for OBJ and something else.

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/20...ffensive-tackles-to-watch-for-the-browns.html

 

[WildBB]

Dennis Kelly (Titans) is another guy like that (RT only) but has played more.

Want a 1 year rental at LT while you develop a draft pick? - Jason Peters.

Weak T free agent pool at DJ is still only #15.

Maybe we can trade DJ to the Browns for OBJ and something else.

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/20...ffensive-tackles-to-watch-for-the-browns.html

No one on the list has his starting experience at LT and he's only 26. Gave up two sacks in 16 games. He should only improve, if he can stay on the field. That's the only question. I don't know how dedicated he is in the off season regimine. Maybe they add that in the contract stipulations.

 

[don7031]

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/left-tackle/

If you exclude Whitworth and Peters who are too old to sign to a long term deal, the free agent starting left tackle pool reduces to four players.

1) Anthony Castonzo
2) DJ Humphries


3) Kevin Beachum
4) Greg Robinson

I view Beachum and Robinson as nothing more than stopgaps until a better player can be drafted/signed.

Castonzo and Humphries are going to get paid.

 

[BritCard]

one nit: while the rookie pool will be around $9mm, it wont consume that much cap space.

cap measures top 53 players -- and for every rookie signed, it knocks another roster player out of the top 53. the "cap impact" of the rookie pool tends to be around 60% of the pool (varies-- it will be a higher % if a team has multiple first rounders, as an example)

that suggests cap space of $21mm or so to sign players -- and you can get 4 guys for that: 1 big dollar guy + 3 mid tier solid starters of varying degrees

I had this discussion with someone else on ROTB.

This only works in the off season when the top 51 kicks in and nobody cares about off season cap right?

When the 53 kicks in and you need to be under the cap the full rookie draft pool applies.

 

[AZman5103]

So with the money we have to actually sign players, we need to be able to fill a lot of holes. Most noteably along the O-Line (possible with resigning our own players) and along the D-Line where we REALLY need at least 2 NFL starting quality D-Lineman, and I would love a star.

I guess I'm going to answer my own question and say, I would let DJ, Shipley walk for sure, freeing up 20 million. If we use Cole at center, and we spend 1/2 of DJ's money on a replacement LT...that gives us 10 million extra.

I would let Drake walk if we cannot get out of David Johnson's deal. If we can I would resign him.

That extra 10 million to spend on the defense lets us get a Chris Jones, Calais Campbell, Bud Dupree, etc...and still sign some quality rotational guys along the d-line.

 

[WindCardinal]

Good post.

Knowing Steve Keim I expect the following to happen.

Extend Hump for too much money. Hump will slip on the stairs 2 minutes after he signs that deal and his ACL will somehow vanish.
Extend AQ for too much money, I'm expecting $5m. That's $5m we don't need to spend for average play when we have Cole ready to start.
Extend Gilbert on a cheap deal to compete for RT with Murray.
Draft some guy on Day 3 as per usual who flits around the depth of the team for 2 years before getting cut.

As you can see, I'm optimistic

I know at least 2 of Humphries injuries were from being rolled up on and another was a concussion.... him being injury prone is overblown.

 

[slanidrac16]

So with the money we have to actually sign players, we need to be able to fill a lot of holes. Most noteably along the O-Line (possible with resigning our own players) and along the D-Line where we REALLY need at least 2 NFL starting quality D-Lineman, and I would love a star.

I guess I'm going to answer my own question and say, I would let DJ, Shipley walk for sure, freeing up 20 million. If we use Cole at center, and we spend 1/2 of DJ's money on a replacement LT...that gives us 10 million extra.

I would let Drake walk if we cannot get out of David Johnson's deal. If we can I would resign him.

That extra 10 million to spend on the defense lets us get a Chris Jones, Calais Campbell, Bud Dupree, etc...and still sign some quality rotational guys along the d-line.

We’ve beaten this horse to death. First cutting DJ saves us nothing. A trade may be possible but you need a trade partner. Pure speculation.

Here’s where you get crazy. You want to cut DJ but if we’re stuck with him then don’t resign Drake. That would mean going into next season with DJ who’s lack of speed does not fit this offense other than as a receiver and Edmonds. Then we’d have to use a draft pick on a rb that would have to learn a system and hope he can pick up blitzes.

I believe DJ will be on this team next year and be a situation rb. If we count on him being anything more than that this offense takes a step backwards.

 

[DVontel]

@Chopper0080 @DVontel

One guy who has piqued my interest for RT, is Zach Banner from the Steelers.

He was a big time player at USC who had weight issues early on and struggled to make teams. Hes now been on the Steelers roster for 2 seasons and has a 75 grade from PFF this year.

6'8, 340. Guys like him sometimes work out big if he is signed on a 2 year deal. The tackle pool is shockingly bad this offseason, and the Cardinals may be smart to keep Justin Murray and bring in a young veteran with upside to compete.

The obvious problem with Banner is that he really only fits at RT, so if he doesnt start, he likely doesnt have positional versatility to backup multiple positions.

I’ll look into him.

 

[WildBB]

So with the money we have to actually sign players, we need to be able to fill a lot of holes. Most noteably along the O-Line (possible with resigning our own players) and along the D-Line where we REALLY need at least 2 NFL starting quality D-Lineman, and I would love a star.

I guess I'm going to answer my own question and say, I would let DJ, Shipley walk for sure, freeing up 20 million. If we use Cole at center, and we spend 1/2 of DJ's money on a replacement LT...that gives us 10 million extra.

I would let Drake walk if we cannot get out of David Johnson's deal. If we can I would resign him.

That extra 10 million to spend on the defense lets us get a Chris Jones, Calais Campbell, Bud Dupree, etc...and still sign some quality rotational guys along the d-line.

The list of top FA's you point out may not want to play here for varying reasons (not the team). That shrinks the list, imo. Quality doesn't free up often and when it does, everyone wants a piece of the action. We'd be wise to take the bird(s) in hand...

 

[BritCard]

We’ve beaten this horse to death. First cutting DJ saves us nothing. A trade may be possible but you need a trade partner. Pure speculation.

Here’s where you get crazy. You want to cut DJ but if we’re stuck with him then don’t resign Drake. That would mean going into next season with DJ who’s lack of speed does not fit this offense other than as a receiver and Edmonds. Then we’d have to use a draft pick on a rb that would have to learn a system and hope he can pick up blitzes.

I believe DJ will be on this team next year and be a situation rb. If we count on him being anything more than that this offense takes a step backwards.

Nobody is trading for DJ. Rams want out of Gurley and Jets out of Bell too and both those guys would be better options for someone. Although I don't see any of them going anywhere without a lot of grease.

The only way we trade DJ is if we agree to pay part of his salary. If we traded him outright we would save $10m this year (+$6m dead cap for bonuses). There would have to be some complicated deal where we pay half his salary. Might even get a day 3 pick out of it too, but otherwise nobody is trading for that deal in my opinion.

Personally I think DJ is done as a runner. I think that MCL tear he had in the last game of 2016 vs the Rams took more out of him than anyone knew.

 

[Chopper0080]

All of this why I think Wirfs at #8 works for this team.

1. He has played RT and LT. So, you have an actual swing OT on the roster.

2. He is cheap, and offsets Humphries contract.

3. Multiple paths to success. He can play RT, LT, and RG. If things go south, it makes your adjustment much easier.

4. Big and athletic. Kugler likes his OL athletic, and Wirfs is that dude. It is the reason Kugler wanted Gilbert and DeCastro when he was in Pittsburgh.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

 

[Harry]

One name not getting mentioned is Brett Toth. I’m told by a good source that the Cards’ coaching staff likes his potential. He may start inside but eventually they see him as a starting tackle. He may not be a starter next year but the Cards may be thinking a stopgap guy will do at tackle.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

Why do the fake?

Bad move for the Texans

Lol, wrong thread

 

[AZman5103]

We’ve beaten this horse to death. First cutting DJ saves us nothing. A trade may be possible but you need a trade partner. Pure speculation.

Here’s where you get crazy. You want to cut DJ but if we’re stuck with him then don’t resign Drake. That would mean going into next season with DJ who’s lack of speed does not fit this offense other than as a receiver and Edmonds. Then we’d have to use a draft pick on a rb that would have to learn a system and hope he can pick up blitzes.

I believe DJ will be on this team next year and be a situation rb. If we count on him being anything more than that this offense takes a step backwards.

I agree with you that it sure seems like our options are more limited than we have been led to believe. If we really end up with only 17-20 million to spend in actual free agency, then we are looking at pretty much the same team, with maybe 2-3 additions? Are we ok rolling with the same O-Line as last year? Are we ok being able to add maybe 1 d-lineman and an OLB, or 1 WR and and a ILB?

Man oh man Keim better nail the draft this year with impact players from day 1 in the first few rounds or we are going to be very hard pressed to improve our team overall.

 

[football karma]

One name not getting mentioned is Brett Toth. I’m told by a good source that the Cards’ coaching staff likes his potential. He may start inside but eventually they see him as a starting tackle. He may not be a starter next year but the Cards may be thinking a stopgap guy will do at tackle.

Harry: any insight you have on Justin Murray?

seems like he got better as the season went on -- after banging around half he league's practice squads, this year was his first live action.

Could he be a guy who just needed live reps to get better?

 

[Harry]

G

Harry: any insight you have on Justin Murray?

seems like he got better as the season went on -- after banging around half he league's practice squads, this year was his first live action.

Could he be a guy who just needed live reps to get better?

the consensus of the guys I’ve talked with is that his ceiling is quality backup. Don’t discount how valuable that is.

 

[WildBB]

All of this why I think Wirfs at #8 works for this team.

1. He has played RT and LT. So, you have an actual swing OT on the roster.

2. He is cheap, and offsets Humphries contract.

3. Multiple paths to success. He can play RT, LT, and RG. If things go south, it makes your adjustment much easier.

4. Big and athletic. Kugler likes his OL athletic, and Wirfs is that dude. It is the reason Kugler wanted Gilbert and DeCastro when he was in Pittsburgh.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

You would take him over Thomas?

 

[overseascardfan]

You would take him over Thomas?

I wonder if some team ahead of us will. Anyone think either Wirfs or Wills will be first OT taken? Only way I see that happening is if Thomas bombs at Combine and his Pro Day.

 

[Chopper0080]

One name not getting mentioned is Brett Toth. I’m told by a good source that the Cards’ coaching staff likes his potential. He may start inside but eventually they see him as a starting tackle. He may not be a starter next year but the Cards may be thinking a stopgap guy will do at tackle.

He is a reason that I don't believe you will see the Cardinals just add an average player on the line.

The point of my post was to put it into a bit of perspective what "upgrading" the offensive line would look like this year in terms of roster construction.

If you are adding a C, he has to be better than Shipley in FA or Gaillard if you are drafting one. Keep in mind that they held onto Gaillard all season on the 53 for a reason.

If you are adding a G, he has to be better than Sweezy in FA or Cole in the draft.

At OT, that player needs to be significantly better than Murray at RT in FA or Murray/Miles/Toth in the draft.

That really narrows down the options especially if they like Toth.

 

[Chopper0080]

You would take him over Thomas?

I would. I think he is much smoother of an athlete and has more spots where he can play. My opinion may differ a bit if we were exclusively trying to fill a hole at LT, but I feel like I still would prefer Wirfs.

 

[Chopper0080]

G

the consensus of the guys I’ve talked with is that his ceiling is quality backup. Don’t discount how valuable that is.

I agree. I think they give him a 2nd round RFA tender at the least.

Let me just say that while I like Cole a lot, if he and Murray are your backup offensive linemen, you have a pretty decent offensive line IMO.