Stein on the Mavs

azirish

ASFN Lifer
Joined
Jan 26, 2007
Posts
3,876
Reaction score
0
Location
Sun City
This is not "Insider" stuff. I highlighted a key point in red.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/trainingcamp07/columns/story?columnist=stein_marc&page=Mavs-071018

No roster shake-up, but Mavs are tweaking approach

You must be registered for see images attach
By Marc Stein
ESPN.com
(Archive)


Let's make the safe assumption here. Let's operate under the conservative premise suggesting that the Dallas Mavericks, despite Kobe Bryant's increasing desire to join them, are not going to be able to make the ultimate change and swing a trade for the game's most fearsome individual talent.

So what happens if they can't come close to getting Kobe?
You must be registered for see images attach
Tim Heitman/Getty Images
Avery Johnson is tweaking his hands-on approach to coaching.

Avery Johnson would forcefully contend, in that unmistakable voice, that the Mavs have changed as much as they need to change after a 67-win season. He believes it no matter what the skeptics have been saying since the first-round playoff ouster that might have inflicted a deeper psychological scar than Dallas' unraveling in the NBA Finals one year earlier.

Changes? The roster alterations were cosmetic to put it charitably -- the list of prominent newcomers stops at Eddie Jones, Trenton Hassell and Brandon Bass -- but Johnson says he's going to try to coach this team a little differently.

He's convinced, furthermore, that a slightly new approach will be enough of a tweak if the Mavericks mature and toughen up like he's predicting.

No matter what the skeptics say.

"We've had a lot of successes around here," Johnson said of his two-plus seasons in charge. "We've had more successes around here than failures.

"I took a hard look at me [after the season], a hard look at the staff, looked at the personnel, looked at how we did business. The overall thing I saw was [that] we've got a pretty good program. We're not going to let some failures of the past stop us from looking at the future goal of still trying to win the championship."

The most acute sense of failure in Mavsland, of course, was felt by Dirk Nowitzki. The Mavs' cornerstone is bound to be subjected to untold levels of scrutiny this season after his utterly punchless performance against Golden State, which forced Nowitzki to collect his first MVP trophy as a playoff spectator, having been ousted in Round 1.

Yet Johnson is right there with his star. He, too, was metaphorically undressed by former Mavs coach Don Nelson in that series, starting with the ill-fated decision to change the league's most successful lineup and bench center Erick Dampier before Game 1. Johnson, too, faces an annoyingly long six-month slog before he really gets the chance to prove anything to anybody, given that Dallas will be judged solely on what it does in the postseason after dropping eight of its last 10 playoff games … three of them losses of the most excruciating sort to Miami in the 2006 Finals and three of them absolute hammerings.

That said …

Johnson, like the MVP, has been too good over the last couple of seasons to be dissed too loudly. The Mavericks, remember, have won 127 games in his two full seasons. They're 143-39 overall under Johnson, for a ridiculous winning percentage of .786. And that trip to the Finals that ended so painfully? It's the only trip to the Finals in franchise history.

So let's see. Let's see whether Johnson's faith in his players -- when large segments of the Dallas fan base were praying for a much bigger roster shakeup after the Golden State crash -- is repaid. Let's see how lasting and influential Johnson's promised changes will be.

You'll recall that the changes were major when he succeeded Nelson in March 2005. Johnson transformed the formerly free-wheeling Mavs into a team that made protecting the rim its No. 1 priority. He stressed disciplined shot selection and made the concept of "hard fouls" an everyday part of Dallas' vocabulary. He made the Mavs as Spurs-like as he possibly could.

Now?

Johnson says he's looking more inward, after six games with the Warriors that exposed all the frailties of the New Mavs.

  • They don't pass the ball well. They rely almost exclusively on isolation plays to compensate for the lack of a playmaker who can create easier shot opportunities for the likes of Nowitzki.
  • They aren't nearly as deep off the bench or as accurate from the perimeter as their reputation suggests, as evidenced by the Mavs' tendency to struggle against zone defenses even with shooters in the Nowitzki and Jason Terry class.
  • They also often end up playing four-on-five offensively because their centers are non-scorers …
  • and we won't even delve into the defensive side beyond mentioning the major troubles they had guarding the perimeter against the Warriors.

You must be registered for see images attach
Ned Dishman/Getty Images
Much of the Mavs' success will ride on Devin Harris' maturation.




"
We were just too predictable [offensively] last year," said one club insider.



So how can Johnson respond with only a minimal shuffling of the personnel? You'd have to say so far that he's been pretty aggressive in the search for solutions, after the Mavs decided that they were better off keeping the roster mostly intact if the only way to address some of the above issues would have meant parting with Josh Howard or Devin Harris.


He hired Paul Westphal as an assistant coach to pump some creativity into the offense and serve as a mellower counterpart to Johnson's in-your-face, Lil' General approach. He vowed not to call any plays for the first five preseason games in hopes that Harris, having recently received a contract extension, will start to trust his instincts more and run the team with some confidence as opposed to constantly glancing back at the bench during games for validation. Johnson is also letting his assistants (newcomer Mario Elie among them) do more in practice, as part of an attempt to resist his natural tendency to "hold their hands all the time."



And when he goes public with the occasional prickly statement about hoping to see better leadership from Nowitzki, Johnson is apt to follow up with an admission like: "Dirk has to tolerate me, too, which is a big task."


If Johnson has a serious complaint these days, it's that "sometimes I believe it more than them" when it comes to the Mavs' ability to win the first championship in team history, even after they seemingly broke through in 2006 by winning a Game 7 on their main rival's floor in San Antonio. Yet Johnson insists that he's still backing this group to use the recent playoff horrors to develop more mental toughness, largely because four of Dallas' top five scorers still are under 30.



Johnson, meanwhile, hopes to evolve like his mentor, Gregg Popovich, has in South Texas, where the Spurs have a knack for revving up in the second half of the season and then peaking in the playoffs even though they've also got an in-your-face coach.



"I'm not backing off," Johnson said. "But what about me trusting my players more? Let's give them a little credit and give them an opportunity to mature more. If they mature, I can still be myself. But give them room to grow.



"One of the first things Paul said when he came was, 'If you stand up through the whole practice and scream and hold their hands, and then you're screaming the whole game, you're going to be wiped out and they won't grow.' Maybe sometimes I want to get a little bit intense and he kind of reels me back in. That's not all bad, either."



Said veteran swingman Jerry Stackhouse: "To win 67 games, we can't just abandon everything we've done. We're not going to throw away everything we've built. We're not going to bury the MVP trophy and the best record last year and the trip to the Finals.


You must be registered for see images attach
Tim Heitman/Getty Images
Can Dirk follow up his MVP season with a championship ring?





"We're [also] not ever going to be a team to say, 'All right, we've won 10 in a row, let's lose this one tonight.' That's ridiculous. But are we maybe going to be a little smarter and rest guys and think about the long haul and put the onus on some of our younger players to be able to go in some games that they maybe wouldn't even have played in the regular season last year? I think that'll happen this year."



Something else that could happen: Johnson is giving serious consideration to regularly starting Stackhouse over Terry in hopes that Terry will give some new life to the bench bunch.



The Kobe Fantasy will remain a possibility as well, as long as rumblings about Bryant's hoping that he gets traded to Dallas continue to circulate on the front-office grapevine.



Yet you needn't expect any apologies from the Mavericks' brain trust if they end up going start to finish for one more season as presently constituted. Johnson already thinks that the Mavs "spent too much time last season apologizing for not winning the championship" in 2006, robbing themselves of the confidence you'd normally associate with a 67-win team.



The Mavs also haven't forgotten what happened the last time they blew up the roster, trading for Antawn Jamison and Antoine Walker after going to the Western Conference finals in 2003 and suffering through the most unsuccessful season of the Mark Cuban era.



"I don't want to think that everything we're doing in Dallas is wrong because we lost to one hot team," Nowitzki said in September. "I still believe we have some great pieces, with a great coach and a great owner and a great organization that will hopefully win it all one day.


"… You [media] guys are the experts. You guys all talk, but nobody really knows if we can [bounce back] or we can't. We're just going to have to go out and get over it. None of us are saying, 'No, we can't.' I think The General is going to get everybody ready."
 
Last edited:

hsandhu

Hall of Famer
Joined
Feb 23, 2004
Posts
2,485
Reaction score
197
You know what, I have a fear kobe could end up with the mavs. The bulls refuse to give up deng, and the lakers turn to dallas.

The thing that bothers me about this is that if they turn to dallas, unless devin harris is included, the suns can easily best the offer of terry/howard. But I have a fear the suns are looking at the way the team has come together, especially since grant hill looks like a 35 year old version of the all-nba hill (as opposed to an injured 35 year old version) and say we don't need to make an offer for kobe.
Also the financial issues could contribute to this.

Thus they not only don't go after him, but fail to block him from going to the mavs...

Now if the mavs don't get kobe... I'm not sure what they do during the regular season. After the finals loss, they could say lets dominate the regular season and that will be our path to the title, they did and lost in the first round. What is their mindset now?
 

ShuHanGuanYu

Registered
Joined
Nov 12, 2005
Posts
119
Reaction score
0
I really don't see how Dallas would land Kobe. It would cost them more than Howard and Terry because the salaries are a few mil away from matching up. Howard is a base contract player, and therefore isn't traded at his actual contract value. They'd have to either:

a) Include Dampier and get a $5 mil player (like Radmanovic) or a combination of players (Cook and Vujacic) in return.

Does Dallas want to trade three starters for one, even Kobe?

b) Include DJ Mbenga and a young guy (Ager or Barea).

This option would probably be chosen over the one above, but depth definitely becomes an issue.


Can this team win a championship?

PG: Harris/FREEAGENT1
SG: Bryant/Stackhouse/Ager
SF: Hassell/George/Bass
PF: Nowitzki/FREEAGENT2/Fazekas
C: Dampier/Diop

FREEAGENT1 = Earl Boykins? Gary Payton?
FREEAGENT2 = Chris Webber? Michael Sweetney? Alan Henderson? Rawle Marshall?
 
Joined
May 1, 2006
Posts
47
Reaction score
0
Can this team win a championship?

PG: Harris/FREEAGENT1
SG: Bryant/Stackhouse/Ager
SF: Hassell/George/Bass
PF: Nowitzki/FREEAGENT2/Fazekas
C: Dampier/Diop

FREEAGENT1 = Earl Boykins? Gary Payton?
FREEAGENT2 = Chris Webber? Michael Sweetney? Alan Henderson? Rawle Marshall?

Yes.

The deal is actually in the works..source reporting in Dallas tonight says it's not LA holding out but Dallas. Apparently JET + Jho + filler is the deal...it's the fine print holding it up...the +filler. They likely want Fazekas and Diop...whatever it is it creating pause in the Dallas brass. Two starters and a 3rd of the bench is a lot to give up 10 days prior to the start of the season.

I say get er done. The Queen Mum could be on the bench and they'd still kick ass.
 
OP
OP
azirish

azirish

ASFN Lifer
Joined
Jan 26, 2007
Posts
3,876
Reaction score
0
Location
Sun City
I don't think that having Dirk and Kobe after the team is gutted is going to be enough. Look at the stuff highlighted in red, this deal does not solve most of their problems and creates new ones.
 

fordronken

Registered User
Joined
Oct 17, 2002
Posts
3,806
Reaction score
0
Location
Los Angeles area
Nobody ever answers my question. How would they make a trade that fits in the CBA? Howard is a BYC player and Harris is a poison pill player. How would this work?
 

ShuHanGuanYu

Registered
Joined
Nov 12, 2005
Posts
119
Reaction score
0
Nobody ever answers my question. How would they make a trade that fits in the CBA? Howard is a BYC player and Harris is a poison pill player. How would this work?

Actually, I answered your question before you asked it. Both of my scenarios above work under the CBA, taking into account Howard's status. Harris' poison pill isn't taken into account because he's not being traded. :)
 

simply_amare

Rookie
Joined
Nov 19, 2004
Posts
94
Reaction score
0
Location
Georgia,USA/Philippines
That's a weak trade if it happens for LA. Both Howard and Terry are border line all-stars to me. The most all-star appearance they'll make in their career is zero-to-2. I'm being generous with that. Howard has more potential to make it but still iffy. I don't know if I'd trust the news that Mavs are the one's holding out. Sounds like a homer-news to me.
 

fordronken

Registered User
Joined
Oct 17, 2002
Posts
3,806
Reaction score
0
Location
Los Angeles area
Actually, I answered your question before you asked it. Both of my scenarios above work under the CBA, taking into account Howard's status. Harris' poison pill isn't taken into account because he's not being traded. :)

Well, it's early. But even so, his salary still counts at the actual number in terms of getting within 125%. So the trade would be Howard, Terry and Dampier for Kobe and Vlad Rad?

Why in the hell would the Lakers do that? They're taking back just over 130 million dollars in salary-- most of which is tied up in Dampier and Terry. They're a bubble playoff team with no financial flexibility. How is that better than where they are right now? They might get a couple of late first rounders extra?

PG Fisher
SG Terry
SF Howard
PF Odom
C Dampier

Bench: Farmar, Bynum, Kwame, Walton, Turiaf, Cook, Mihm, Javaris

I'm sorry, but if the Lakers do that deal, they're done as a franchise for the next 5 years. Unless a Howard/Bynum duo can become the cornerstones of a franchise, they're in big trouble. And I don't see that happening, so they're in big trouble. It puts them in worse shape financially, and they're a huge question mark as a team, and could be atrocious. Their only shot at respectability would be Phil Jackson getting the best out of everybody. And he'd be gone after this season. Terrible, terrible trade from LA's perspective.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

I'm better than Mulli!
Joined
Sep 16, 2002
Posts
63,273
Reaction score
57,473
Location
SoCal
Yes.

The deal is actually in the works..source reporting in Dallas tonight says it's not LA holding out but Dallas. Apparently JET + Jho + filler is the deal...it's the fine print holding it up...the +filler. They likely want Fazekas and Diop...whatever it is it creating pause in the Dallas brass. Two starters and a 3rd of the bench is a lot to give up 10 days prior to the start of the season.

I say get er done. The Queen Mum could be on the bench and they'd still kick ass.

lol, you neglect to mention that your "source" states the deal getting less likely to happen . . .
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

I'm better than Mulli!
Joined
Sep 16, 2002
Posts
63,273
Reaction score
57,473
Location
SoCal
Well, it's early. But even so, his salary still counts at the actual number in terms of getting within 125%. So the trade would be Howard, Terry and Dampier for Kobe and Vlad Rad?

Why in the hell would the Lakers do that? They're taking back just over 130 million dollars in salary-- most of which is tied up in Dampier and Terry. They're a bubble playoff team with no financial flexibility. How is that better than where they are right now? They might get a couple of late first rounders extra?

PG Fisher
SG Terry
SF Howard
PF Odom
C Dampier

Bench: Farmar, Bynum, Kwame, Walton, Turiaf, Cook, Mihm, Javaris

I'm sorry, but if the Lakers do that deal, they're done as a franchise for the next 5 years. Unless a Howard/Bynum duo can become the cornerstones of a franchise, they're in big trouble. And I don't see that happening, so they're in big trouble. It puts them in worse shape financially, and they're a huge question mark as a team, and could be atrocious. Their only shot at respectability would be Phil Jackson getting the best out of everybody. And he'd be gone after this season. Terrible, terrible trade from LA's perspective.

wow, that's a terrible team. where are abomb and d?
 

YouJustGotSUNSD

Custom User Title!
Joined
Jun 6, 2007
Posts
5,168
Reaction score
0
Thats neither rebuilding mode, future prospects mode, nor win now mode for the Lakers.
 

ShuHanGuanYu

Registered
Joined
Nov 12, 2005
Posts
119
Reaction score
0
Well, it's early. But even so, his salary still counts at the actual number in terms of getting within 125%. So the trade would be Howard, Terry and Dampier for Kobe and Vlad Rad?

Why in the hell would the Lakers do that? They're taking back just over 130 million dollars in salary-- most of which is tied up in Dampier and Terry. They're a bubble playoff team with no financial flexibility. How is that better than where they are right now? They might get a couple of late first rounders extra?

PG Fisher
SG Terry
SF Howard
PF Odom
C Dampier

Bench: Farmar, Bynum, Kwame, Walton, Turiaf, Cook, Mihm, Javaris

I'm sorry, but if the Lakers do that deal, they're done as a franchise for the next 5 years. Unless a Howard/Bynum duo can become the cornerstones of a franchise, they're in big trouble. And I don't see that happening, so they're in big trouble. It puts them in worse shape financially, and they're a huge question mark as a team, and could be atrocious. Their only shot at respectability would be Phil Jackson getting the best out of everybody. And he'd be gone after this season. Terrible, terrible trade from LA's perspective.

Those are the only two scenarios that work under the CBA, without involving the often elusive third team of course. I didn't think Dallas would be willing to trade three starters anyways, as noted above, so I added the only other option. That trade involves Howard, Terry, Mbenga, Barea for Bryant.

People keep saying Kobe is going to Dallas, but I wanted to let them know what it will realistically cost them to bring Kobe aboard. I don't see a trade happening either way.
 

fordronken

Registered User
Joined
Oct 17, 2002
Posts
3,806
Reaction score
0
Location
Los Angeles area
Those are the only two scenarios that work under the CBA, without involving the often elusive third team of course. I didn't think Dallas would be willing to trade three starters anyways, as noted above, so I added the only other option. That trade involves Howard, Terry, Mbenga, Barea for Bryant.

People keep saying Kobe is going to Dallas, but I wanted to let them know what it will realistically cost them to bring Kobe aboard. I don't see a trade happening either way.

Agreed.
 

hsandhu

Hall of Famer
Joined
Feb 23, 2004
Posts
2,485
Reaction score
197
Those are the only two scenarios that work under the CBA, without involving the often elusive third team of course. I didn't think Dallas would be willing to trade three starters anyways, as noted above, so I added the only other option. That trade involves Howard, Terry, Mbenga, Barea for Bryant.

People keep saying Kobe is going to Dallas, but I wanted to let them know what it will realistically cost them to bring Kobe aboard. I don't see a trade happening either way.

I'm missing why this is seen as difficult to work under the cbs. Terry/Howard/and any combination of filler to make it work.
 

cly2tw

Registered User
Joined
Oct 26, 2002
Posts
5,832
Reaction score
0
I'm missing why this is seen as difficult to work under the cbs. Terry/Howard/and any combination of filler to make it work.

I agree. But, I guess it's a non issue anyways. I just can't imagine Kobe goes for that package regardless of CBS restrictions. The Lakers'd rather take Gordon/Thomas/Nocioni.
 

Lorenzo

Registered User
Joined
Feb 3, 2007
Posts
10,287
Reaction score
5,197
Location
Vegas
the lakers will not trade kobe in the west for a package deal............just like they didn't do with shaq when the mavs were trying to line him up. just like the t-wolves didn't want to trade garnett in the west........ in a deal that would not bring in an equal talent. the only way I see it happening is if the mavs give up dirk or another team in the west gives up an mvp caliber player. chicago is a more realistic possibility, but again the lakers would be fools to do that as well.
 
Top