Stern on Bickley & MJ

[Rab]

Anyone else catch this interview this morning? Bick did an excellent job of asking the question a lot of us want better explanation for in a non-threatening or bitter way.

- Why did Stern go by the letter of the law in punishing the Suns during Horrygate, but then go on a few months later and interpret the gambling rule in regards to refs by the spirit of the law?

Sterns response was that there was a precedence for the "leaving the bench" rule that has been enforced for years. In regards to the refs gambling rule, it hadn't ever really been enforced, and so when it was time to do so, times had changed so much that he saw the rule as outdated and old.

A caller then called in after the interview and made an interesting point. There was a scandal in the past where refs were busted by the IRS for exchanging their first class plane tickets for coach seats and pocketing the cash without reporting it. Stern then fired theses refs only to rehire them later. He also made a good point about how Duncan stepped on the floor in the same game Amare and Boris did, and used the explanation used by Stu Jackson when asked why Duncan wasn't suspended. His response was that he could tell by Duncan's body language that he wasn't going to try anything on the court. Funny thing was, in the interview just moments before with Stern, he has just said that there is no way to tell what a player's intention is when they walk onto the court.

Again, it just shows how inconsistent the NBA front office has become, and how frustrating it can be. Not trying to stir up anything, and I certainly hate opening up this can of worms again, but I just thought I'd share as I found it to be interesting.

 

[TucsonDevil]

If the assistant coaches would have done their job of keeping the players on the bench... or better yet, Amare and Doris keep their fannies on the bench, none of this would be an issue.

Stern and the NBA league office are inconsistent when enforcing rules?

 

[jbeecham]

I'd be surprised if David Stern ever comes to another game in Phx. I would love it if he had to present the Championship trophy here and the fans could let him know how they really feel about him. That snake would probably crap his pants and be afraid for his life (rightfully so).

Here's an interesting thought......if Stern truly is afraid to come to Phx, would he even allow the Suns to make it to the NBA finals where he would be forced to make an appearance?

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I'd be surprised if David Stern ever comes to another game in Phx. I would love it if he had to present the Championship trophy here and the fans could let him know how they really feel about him. That snake would probably crap his pants and be afraid for his life (rightfully so).

Here's an interesting thought......if Stern truly is afraid to come to Phx, would he even allow the Suns to make it to the NBA finals where he would be forced to make an appearance?

He will be here next year for the All Star game right?

 

[jbeecham]

I would think he would have to be, but I'm not sure. Maybe he'll call in sick again and then go to Cleveland.

 

[HooverDam]

Here's an interesting thought......if Stern truly is afraid to come to Phx, would he even allow the Suns to make it to the NBA finals where he would be forced to make an appearance?

Huh? You're insinuating that he's actually evil and trying to fix the league. I think you are forgetting Hanlons Razor:

Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.

I don't think Stern is actually evil or malicious, I think he's just stupid and ignorant. He's a horrible commissioner. Him thinking ratings for the game was going down would be remedied by a dress code is the perfect example of how David Stern is out of touch with the world.

 

[LakeShowMan]

I still say to this day, that decision to suspend Amare and Boris, is the worst decision by the commisioners office I can remember. Not so much the decision to suspend a player that steps off the bench, but the fact that it seemed to be so selectively given. If Amare and Boris were suspended, then Duncan had to be as well.

The only other decision I can remember that angered me as much, was when Kobe got suspended for 'hitting' Ginobli on the followthrough of his shot (when there was no call in the game). Kind of makes you suspicious when both happen to involve the Spurs.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I still say to this day, that decision to suspend Amare and Boris, is the worst decision by the commisioners office I can remember. Not so much the decision to suspend a player that steps off the bench, but the fact that it seemed to be so selectively given. If Amare and Boris were suspended, then Duncan had to be as well.

The only other decision I can remember that angered me as much, was when Kobe got suspended for 'hitting' Ginobli on the followthrough of his shot (when there was no call in the game). Kind of makes you suspicious when both happen to involve the Spurs.

Yep. It couldn't have been more ironic. Ginobili who hurts more people than anyone in the league by the followthrough of his shot.

 

[jbeecham]

He's not stupid. It would be extremely hard for a stupid man to get themselves into the his position as NBA Commish. I think he has a god complex and he feels like he knows what's best for the league and he guides the refs to ensure the teams he wants are victorious. He's like a movie director that keeps changing the script because he thinks it'll make the movie better, but it just keeps creating more holes in the plot. Then when the critics point out the holes in the plot, he lashes out at them like an angry baby and storms off.

 

[The Man In Black]

I still say to this day, that decision to suspend Amare and Boris, is the worst decision by the commisioners office I can remember. Not so much the decision to suspend a player that steps off the bench, but the fact that it seemed to be so selectively given. If Amare and Boris were suspended, then Duncan had to be as well.

The only other decision I can remember that angered me as much, was when Kobe got suspended for 'hitting' Ginobli on the followthrough of his shot (when there was no call in the game). Kind of makes you suspicious when both happen to involve the Spurs.

Okay, then explain the Marko Jaric incident that got Kobe another suspension. If he does that unnatural act thing again,(pretty much everytime a defender gets in his grill to challenge a shot),he will get suspended again.
There is a precedence, just like there was a precedent set for over 10 years I add, about leaving the bench during what the league deems an altercation. When Tim walked out, the league didn't deem that to be an altercation. When Nash went down and then Bell stepped into Horry's grill, that's when the refs declared the altercation and the Spurs coaches were able to keep their bench players home, the Suns coaches were not.
But that is so last year...
The Suns are talented and what they need to be able to do is win a game they aren't supposed to win by winning it ugly. You hear it all the time, keep on doing what you're doing until you get stopped, then adjust. That's the deal here, the adjustments have been lax and has resulted in early exits. If the Spurs need to run with Phoenix, they can and will, but in the end when it becomes a possession-by-possession game, that is when they excel at stops and become proficient in offense. Case and point, that last TNT game.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Okay, then explain the Marko Jaric incident that got Kobe another suspension. If he cames doing that unnatural act(pretty much everytime a defender gets in his grill to challenge a shot), he will get suspended again.
There is a precedence, just like there was a precedent set for over 10 years I add, about leaving the bench during what the league deems an altercation. When Tim walked out, the league didn't deem that to be an altercation. When Nash went down and then Bell stepped into Horry's grill, that's when the refs declared the altercation and the Spurs coaches were able to keep their bench players home, the Suns coaches were not.
But that is so last year...
The Suns are talented and what they need to be able to do is win a game they aren't supposed to win by winning it ugly. You hear it all the time, keep on doing what you're doing until you get stopped, then adjust. That's the deal here, the adjustments have been lax and has resulted in early exits. If the Spurs need to run with Phoenix, they can and will, but in the end when it becomes a possession-by-possession game, that is when they excel at stops and become proficient in offense. Case and point, that last TNT game.

Explain Ginobili's flopping. That is not a natural basketball move................ not the way that he flops anyway.

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

He's not stupid. It would be extremely hard for a stupid man to get themselves into the his position as NBA Commish. I think he has a god complex and he feels like he knows what's best for the league and he guides the refs to ensure the teams he wants are victorious. He's like a movie director that keeps changing the script because he thinks it'll make the movie better, but it just keeps creating more holes in the plot. Then when the critics point out the holes in the plot, he lashes out at them like an angry baby and storms off.

heh, yeah.

 

[Rab]

Explain Ginobili's flopping. That is not a natural basketball move................ not the way that he flops anyway.

Or Bowen's foot under a jumpshooter. That's not natural either, at least not as many times as he has done it.

 

[HooverDam]

He's not stupid. It would be extremely hard for a stupid man to get themselves into the his position as NBA Commish. I think he has a god complex and he feels like he knows what's best for the league and he guides the refs to ensure the teams he wants are victorious. He's like a movie director that keeps changing the script because he thinks it'll make the movie better, but it just keeps creating more holes in the plot. Then when the critics point out the holes in the plot, he lashes out at them like an angry baby and storms off.

Thats a good way of putting it, but I'd call that director stupid as well I guess I just have a broad definition of 'stupid.' David Stern is probably a smart guy and a good lawyer or whatever it is he did before he got into basketball. However, he doesn't know whats best for the game, and thats obviously evident in the NBA Finals ratings.

To me, a good commissioner would be looking at things like widening the court by 4 feet, adopting the Euro Style key area, trying to reduce the amount of players just running in front of someone to take a charge, reducing flopping, et cetera. Not suspending superstars who haven't hurt anyone, telling players how to dress, et cetera.

 

[LakeShowMan]

Okay, then explain the Marko Jaric incident that got Kobe another suspension. If he does that unnatural act thing again,(pretty much everytime a defender gets in his grill to challenge a shot),he will get suspended again.
There is a precedence, just like there was a precedent set for over 10 years I add, about leaving the bench during what the league deems an altercation. When Tim walked out, the league didn't deem that to be an altercation. When Nash went down and then Bell stepped into Horry's grill, that's when the refs declared the altercation and the Spurs coaches were able to keep their bench players home, the Suns coaches were not.
But that is so last year...
The Suns are talented and what they need to be able to do is win a game they aren't supposed to win by winning it ugly. You hear it all the time, keep on doing what you're doing until you get stopped, then adjust. That's the deal here, the adjustments have been lax and has resulted in early exits. If the Spurs need to run with Phoenix, they can and will, but in the end when it becomes a possession-by-possession game, that is when they excel at stops and become proficient in offense. Case and point, that last TNT game.

Umm, I don't remember justifying the Jaric incident. That was just stupid on Kobe's part as he had already been suspended once. Just like the saying 'fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me'. With that said, the original suspension was ridiculous. Especially, when I have seen numerous other 'unnatural basketball acts', that didn't result in suspensions. For example, a few weeks after Kobe suspension, I remember LeBron James clothslining D Wade. Why wasn't that a suspendable act?

Of course you are a Spurs fan, and I could argue that every time Bruce Bowen steps on the court he is in violation, as almost his entire defensive repertoire is made up of 'unnatural basketball acts'.

 

[jbeecham]

As much as I dislike Kobe, his unnatural basketball move should've been at worst a flagrant foul, not a suspension, until he did it a 2nd time. Unnatural basketball acts happen all the time in NBA games and are missed by the refs constantly so they should go back and review plays after the game if something bad happened.

Ginobili punched Raja Bell in the nuts in the last Suns-Spurs game while trying to go around a screen and the refs missed it. I'm sure the league office determined it was accidental though, despite Manu swinging his arm downward with a fist. Just like when Bruce Bowen intentionally kneed Nash in the nuts last year........completely accidental and not a suspendable act.

 

[hafey]

The enemy of my enemy is my friend? Laker fans and suns fans unite to fight the Spurs.

 

[carrrnuttt]

The enemy of my enemy is my friend?

Between this and Hanlon's Razor, I am having an adage overload here.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Okay, then explain the Marko Jaric incident that got Kobe another suspension. If he does that unnatural act thing again,(pretty much everytime a defender gets in his grill to challenge a shot),he will get suspended again.
There is a precedence, just like there was a precedent set for over 10 years I add, about leaving the bench during what the league deems an altercation. When Tim walked out, the league didn't deem that to be an altercation. When Nash went down and then Bell stepped into Horry's grill, that's when the refs declared the altercation and the Spurs coaches were able to keep their bench players home, the Suns coaches were not.
But that is so last year...
The Suns are talented and what they need to be able to do is win a game they aren't supposed to win by winning it ugly. You hear it all the time, keep on doing what you're doing until you get stopped, then adjust. That's the deal here, the adjustments have been lax and has resulted in early exits. If the Spurs need to run with Phoenix, they can and will, but in the end when it becomes a possession-by-possession game, that is when they excel at stops and become proficient in offense. Case and point, that last TNT game.

At risk of bludgeoning as deceased equine. When Bell stepped into Horry's grill, Amare and Boris had already stopped. They immediately moved back to the bench. There was no altercation when they stepped on to the court, just a very hard foul.

It was well withing the prerogative of the commissioner to NOT suspend anyone AND maintain league precedent. He did not have the wisdom to do so.

 

[nashman]

^Exactly, and agian if its such a hardline rule what about Duncan? To determine by his body language he wasn't going to do anything is CRAP!

 

[ambchang_]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=xNN9ZiH38fs

I agree, Ginobili is such a flopper.
And could you send me the video of Ginobili punching Bell? I think I missed that during the playoffs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7J2SDouIqtA&feature=related
If I don't know any better, Nash was in Bowen's space in the play, but then Bowen was called for the foul.

Speaking of sliding foot under another player, it is so uncommon, it happened AGAIN last night http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=280204018. Makes me wonder if it's unnatural or not.

 

[jbeecham]

I agree, Ginobili is such a flopper.
And could you send me the video of Ginobili punching Bell? I think I missed that during the playoffs.

It happened in the last Suns-Spurs game (not the playoffs) that the Suns won 84-81. I don't know if there's any video of it of not.

By the way, in your 1st video, Ginobili lowers a shoulder and leans into Raja creating the contact. Raja just animates it a little to get the call. He's not like Ginobili, who flops when there's no contact at all and then screams and writhes in pain on a non-existent foul.

As far as Nash getting in Bowen's space.....thats just a Spurs fan excuse for a dirty play. Bowen gets in people's space all the damn time and I don't see anyone swinging their knee into his crotch constantly. But hey, at least the refs saw that one and called it a foul.....

As far as sliding your foot under someone, it does happen a lot (Shaq did it to Raja Bell earlier this year) and a lot of the time it looks intentional. It's not that it's an unnatural move, but it's a dangerous move that's avoidable. If you're running at a jump shooter and try to stop then one foot naturally goes out in front of your body to stop you, but when that foot ends up underneath where the guy is going to land then the defender needs to be punished for not controlling his body and potentially causing an injury.

 

[mojorizen7]

The Suns are talented and what they need to be able to do is win a game they aren't supposed to win by winning it ugly. You hear it all the time, keep on doing what you're doing until you get stopped, then adjust. That's the deal here, the adjustments have been lax and has resulted in early exits. If the Spurs need to run with Phoenix, they can and will, but in the end when it becomes a possession-by-possession game, that is when they excel at stops and become proficient in offense. Case and point, that last TNT game.

Yep.
One cigar & 5 trophies to the M.I.B. & the team he represents.

 

[F-Dog]

Did he explain his decision not to suspend Bowen after game 2?

Pretty obvious which way the wind was blowing after that.

 

[ambchang_]

It happened in the last Suns-Spurs game (not the playoffs) that the Suns won 84-81. I don't know if there's any video of it of not.

I couldn't find it, I actually looked it up on youtube and google, and there wasn't any mention of it. Given the amount of attention on physical play last year between the two teams (which I personally thought was a joke), I found it astounding that a dirty play that went against America's team didn't get amplified and made it all over the Internet.

By the way, in your 1st video, Ginobili lowers a shoulder and leans into Raja creating the contact. Raja just animates it a little to get the call. He's not like Ginobili, who flops when there's no contact at all and then screams and writhes in pain on a non-existent foul.

Again, I tried to look up Ginobili flops on youtube, thinking that I would get hundreds, if not thousands of hits, but what I got was the Bell flop, a play where Ginobili was bounced around by 3 Nuggets (flagrant foul), and a bunch of animation made by haters. I guess I will have to refine my search skills.

As far as Nash getting in Bowen's space.....thats just a Spurs fan excuse for a dirty play. Bowen gets in people's space all the damn time and I don't see anyone swinging their knee into his crotch constantly. But hey, at least the refs saw that one and called it a foul.....

I don't know what is more funny, the fact that you are somehow linking Nash's "defense" with Bowen's defense, or the fact that you don't know that an offensive player is entitled to the space around him. Speaking of which, what was Nash thinking? Bowen can't create offense, he is not going to put the ball on the floor, so why stay so close?

As far as sliding your foot under someone, it does happen a lot (Shaq did it to Raja Bell earlier this year) and a lot of the time it looks intentional. It's not that it's an unnatural move, but it's a dangerous move that's avoidable. If you're running at a jump shooter and try to stop then one foot naturally goes out in front of your body to stop you, but when that foot ends up underneath where the guy is going to land then the defender needs to be punished for not controlling his body and potentially causing an injury.

Controlling your body is different than defying the laws of physics. When I was younger, I thought if I could jump 10 feet of the ground, I can change directions in midair like SuperMario, but the sad part is that, we, as real humans in a world of physics, cannot make midair adjustments.

And defenders were punished for intruding on the offensive player's space, they were called for the foul.

Besides I ask, if I am paid millions of dollars solely for playing perimeter defense, why would I contiously do something that would significantly undermine my effectiveness on the job? Perhaps this explains why the Suns is not a great defensive team despite the athleticism, they were just too sportsmanlike to avoid touching people when they were on defense.