Steve Keim's Line in The Sand

[kerouac9]

I'm in the minority but I think Bethel will be fine. I think he was good at covering his man but not good at making the play to either break up the pass or pick it off. That will come with experience. I don't think he's ever going to be a great CB but I think he will become an above average one and that's good with me.

The good thing is, if the #3 CB or CB depth, is the biggest concern for a defense, that's a pretty good defense.

Any evidence to support that assertion? Weren't you the guy who was saying that you can't coach ball awareness in the draft process, and pounding the guy who didn't have an INT in his college career?

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Any evidence to support that assertion? Weren't you the guy who was saying that you can't coach ball awareness in the draft process, and pounding the guy who didn't have an INT in his college career?

Common sense and natural growth at the position is my evidence.

I never said ball skills cannot be coached. I've said having touch/accuracy as a QB cannot be coached.

I did pound the guy who did not have an INT in college as a guy who I would not use as a 1st round pick. Seems like the NFL agreed with me.

 

[CFLredzoned]

I agree that Bethel does seem to put himself in position to make a play on the ball, just rarely seemed to be able to turn around and locate the ball in air. Hopefully that come with experience. How many years has he been playing corner now?

I'm still wondering if he has the hips to play CB. I tried to find his scouting reports from the 2012 draft. Not much due to the small school thing. But what I saw had him projected as a safety. And that's what he seems like to me. Freakish athletic ability speedwise, jumping. There was a story about him doing the 5-ft box jump thing. So all that is great. But can he swivel his hips to adjust to the ball? I'm not saying he can't - because I don't remember. But can he? That's why I was relieved to hear that Brandon Williams has excellent hips.

 

[kerouac9]

I'm still wondering if he has the hips to play CB. I tried to find his scouting reports from the 2012 draft. Not much due to the small school thing. But what I saw had him projected as a safety. And that's what he seems like to me. Freakish athletic ability speedwise, jumping. There was a story about him doing the 5-ft box jump thing. So all that is great. But can he swivel his hips to adjust to the ball? I'm not saying he can't - because I don't remember. But can he? That's why I was relieved to hear that Brandon Williams has excellent hips.

"Slow" or "stiff" hips generally refers to the player's ability to quickly transition out of backpedal to run step for step with the opposing receiver. It doesn't have much to do with looking back for the ball.

 

[CFLredzoned]

"Slow" or "stiff" hips generally refers to the player's ability to quickly transition out of backpedal to run step for step with the opposing receiver. It doesn't have much to do with looking back for the ball.

Right. That's what I should have said. Can he swivel his hips to adjust to a quick receiver making double moves?

 

[wit3card]

Yes he can and he did, but his knock is he bit on to many fakes ... he wans't ready to play at the big stage. When the opponents saw his lack of expirience they burned him with double and tripple moves.

Was evident in both Packers games and on 2 occasions on the NFC Championship game. But he got better, in the NFC Championship game he didn't play as bad as many think, I thought he was one of the better D player behind Minter and Bucannon. PP didn't play bad, but he tried to much and ... yes got burned too.

Our #2 will always get picked more than about any other CB in the league when PP21 has a season like last year. Because seriously who will throw against PP21 when your chance to succsed is below every other opponent CB. And no Norman was a product of the D-Line of the Panthers and not his skillset. He will prove he got a lucky deal and the Panthers knew he wasn't worth it.

So after all, I think we will have a good CB tandem with PP21 shadowing #1 and Bethel #2 and HB in the Slot. If anyone of our picks can surpass Bethel, that means he probably would be a #1 CB on a some other teams. Because Bethel would be a starter for at least 10 other NFL teams. At the moment probably even on all other NFC West teams.

 

[CFLredzoned]

Yes he can and he did, but his knock is he bit on to many fakes ... he wans't ready to play at the big stage. When the opponents saw his lack of expirience they burned him with double and tripple moves.

Was evident in both Packers games and on 2 occasions on the NFC Championship game. But he got better, in the NFC Championship game he didn't play as bad as many think, I thought he was one of the better D player behind Minter and Bucannon. PP didn't play bad, but he tried to much and ... yes got burned too.

Our #2 will always get picked more than about any other CB in the league when PP21 has a season like last year. Because seriously who will throw against PP21 when your chance to succsed is below every other opponent CB. And no Norman was a product of the D-Line of the Panthers and not his skillset. He will prove he got a lucky deal and the Panthers knew he wasn't worth it.

So after all, I think we will have a good CB tandem with PP21 shadowing #1 and Bethel #2 and HB in the Slot. If anyone of our picks can surpass Bethel, that means he probably would be a #1 CB on a some other teams. Because Bethel would be a starter for at least 10 other NFL teams. At the moment probably even on all other NFC West teams.

Thanks wit. I can sleep now.

 

[Mitch]

MJ and K-Somers in their podcasts keep saying that the Cardinals don't have any tackle on their roster other than Veldheer who has played a snap in an NFL game---and how it is imperative for them to sign a veteran backup tackle.

Why do they keep forgetting that Earl Watford started games 1 & 2 last year at RT? Plus, Watford played well. I would love to see them sign Watford to an extension. His versatility is an asset---and I think he's one of the hidden gems on the roster.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

MJ and K-Somers in their podcasts keep saying that the Cardinals don't have any tackle on their roster other than Veldheer who has played a snap in an NFL game---and how it is imperative for them to sign a veteran backup tackle.

Why do they keep forgetting that Earl Watford started games 1 & 2 last year at RT? Plus, Watford played well. I would love to see them sign Watford to an extension. His versatility is an asset---and I think he's one of the hidden gems on the roster.

+1

I thought Big Earl played well in those games and looked like he was improving the more he played. He should get more opportunities to see how far he has come.

Wonder if the coaching staff is seeing the same thing we are?

 

[CFLredzoned]

MJ and K-Somers in their podcasts keep saying that the Cardinals don't have any tackle on their roster other than Veldheer who has played a snap in an NFL game---and how it is imperative for them to sign a veteran backup tackle.

Why do they keep forgetting that Earl Watford started games 1 & 2 last year at RT? Plus, Watford played well. I would love to see them sign Watford to an extension. His versatility is an asset---and I think he's one of the hidden gems on the roster.

Plus Earl checks the physicality box. I keep hearing about how small Humphries looks compared to other OL or DL players. So maybe they have an attitude of you know what, give DJ a chance to prove that he really did flip the switch. He's really talking the talk right now. Definitely saying all the right things and seems like a different guy. But if that doesn't work out, at least Earl can step in and match the physicality of some of these teams we're facing. If you look at our schedule, it's a who's who of off-the-charts monstrous, physical front sevens, one after another, after another.

 

[kerouac9]

+1

I thought Big Earl played well in those games and looked like he was improving the more he played. He should get more opportunities to see how far he has come.

Wonder if the coaching staff is seeing the same thing we are?

Plus Earl checks the physicality box. I keep hearing about how small Humphries looks compared to other OL or DL players. So maybe they have an attitude of you know what, give DJ a chance to prove that he really did flip the switch. He's really talking the talk right now. Definitely saying all the right things and seems like a different guy. But if that doesn't work out, at least Earl can step in and match the physicality of some of these teams we're facing. If you look at our schedule, it's a who's who of off-the-charts monstrous, physical front sevens, one after another, after another.

Worth remembering that those first four games were against the 32nd (NO), 31st (CHI), 27th (SF) and 7th-ranked (STL--RIP) defenses. New Orleans in particular was historically bad. Against St. Louis Palmer was sacked 4 times.

 

[Mitch]

Worth remembering that those first four games were against the 32nd (NO), 31st (CHI), 27th (SF) and 7th-ranked (STL--RIP) defenses. New Orleans in particular was historically bad. Against St. Louis Palmer was sacked 4 times.

Earl Watford only started the first two, as Massie's suspension was only 2 games.

Not sure why you would want to downplay Watford's performance in those games---for a guy making his first two starts at RT, he sure stepped up. In particular, i thought he battled especially hard versus the Bears' DE Jared Allen.

 

[kerouac9]

Earl Watford only started the first two, as Massie's suspension was only 2 games.

Not sure why you would want to downplay Watford's performance in those games---for a guy making his first two starts at RT, he sure stepped up. In particular, i thought he battled especially hard versus the Bears' DE Jared Allen.

I just watched every snap of the New Orleans game, and Watford battled, but he wasn't good—by any means. He was constantly helped by a TE on his side, and he gave up a ton of ground in pass pro. It's understandable because he was playing out of position (it remains mystifying that D.J. Humphries was so bad that he'd be shattered by playing OT for two games and was an inferior option to a guy who had never played the postiion before), but it sounds like people here—including you—are saying he played well. He did not play well—he played against inferior competition.

The Saints might not have had the best defense in the state of Louisiana last year.

 

[Proximo]

Watford is not a good tackle. At all.

I don't know why everyone keeps saying he is - if you look at the film he was lousy, not that I would expect anything else really for a guy that has barely played the position.

There seems to be an overall shortage of good veteran tackles and corners in the league. I kind of doubt we will find one of either unfortunately.

We really, really need a couple of these rookies/rookie free agents to surprise and be competent at the position or have zero injuries, otherwise we are going to be in trouble.

 

[Mitch]

I just watched every snap of the New Orleans game, and Watford battled, but he wasn't good—by any means. He was constantly helped by a TE on his side, and he gave up a ton of ground in pass pro. It's understandable because he was playing out of position (it remains mystifying that D.J. Humphries was so bad that he'd be shattered by playing OT for two games and was an inferior option to a guy who had never played the postiion before), but it sounds like people here—including you—are saying he played well. He did not play well—he played against inferior competition.

The Saints might not have had the best defense in the state of Louisiana last year.

Don't see at all what you were seeing.

Saw Watford repeatedly help to open up running holes---he didn't give up one sack---and on one play where he rode his man wide of the pocket, Palmer escaped to his right and threw a nice TD to John Brown.

The fact is the Cardinals scored 31 points, had 427 yards of total offense, Carson Palmer was 19/32, 307 yards, 3 TDs, 0 int., 0 sacks----and the running game was 25/120, 1 TD.

At Chicago---the offense has another big day---Palmer was 17/24, 185, 4 TDs, 1 int., 0 sacks. Running game: 28/115, 1 TD.

Earl Watford gave up 0 sacks in two big wins (with balanced passing and running)---with the team averaging 39.5 ppg.

 

[cardncubfan]

Good article on DJ.

http://espn.go.com/blog/arizona-car...-plans-on-keeping-starting-rt-job-on-lockdown

 

[kerouac9]

Don't see at all what you were seeing.

Saw Watford repeatedly help to open up running holes---he didn't give up one sack---and on one play where he rode his man wide of the pocket, Palmer escaped to his right and threw a nice TD to John Brown.

The fact is the Cardinals scored 31 points, had 427 yards of total offense, Carson Palmer was 19/32, 307 yards, 3 TDs, 0 int., 0 sacks----and the running game was 25/120, 1 TD.

At Chicago---the offense has another big day---Palmer was 17/24, 185, 4 TDs, 1 int., 0 sacks. Running game: 28/115, 1 TD.

Earl Watford gave up 0 sacks in two big wins (with balanced passing and running)---with the team averaging 39.5 ppg.

And those were the two worst defenses in the NFL. You're confusing process and results. Because Palmer bought time after Watford was a turnstile doesn't mean that Watford played well.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

Good article on DJ.

http://espn.go.com/blog/arizona-car...-plans-on-keeping-starting-rt-job-on-lockdown

Good read and sounds like DJ got the message from BA. Now we need to see if it translates to how he plays.

 

[CFLredzoned]

I hate to stir the rumor pot, but here goes. On the Around the NFL podcast "NFC 'Freak Out' Scenarios" episode, they're talking about what each team should be freaked out by moving forward: http://www.nfl.com/podcasts?series=aroundtheleague-podcast. For the Cardinals, RT was mentioned. Then it was asked if the Cardinals should be freaked out by Justin Bethel as their #2 CB. Chris Wesseling chimes in: "I had a well placed team source tell me that he wasn't too happy with Justin Bethel as the starting corner." Then: "Hey I go on airplanes. I talk to coaches like Mark does."

So he's insinuating that a Cardinals coach told him on an airplane that they're not happy with Justin Bethel? Wow okay. Should anyone believe him? I don't know. Should anyone care? Well, Around the NFL is an official NFL product, probably their most popular podcast, heard by millions around the world. So the rumor is out there. I bet this "well placed Cardinal team source" keeps his mouth shut after this one.

 

[cardncubfan]

MJ and K-Somers in their podcasts keep saying that the Cardinals don't have any tackle on their roster other than Veldheer who has played a snap in an NFL game---and how it is imperative for them to sign a veteran backup tackle.

Why do they keep forgetting that Earl Watford started games 1 & 2 last year at RT? Plus, Watford played well. I would love to see them sign Watford to an extension. His versatility is an asset---and I think he's one of the hidden gems on the roster.

+1

I thought Big Earl played well in those games and looked like he was improving the more he played. He should get more opportunities to see how far he has come.

Wonder if the coaching staff is seeing the same thing we are?

Plus Earl checks the physicality box. I keep hearing about how small Humphries looks compared to other OL or DL players. So maybe they have an attitude of you know what, give DJ a chance to prove that he really did flip the switch. He's really talking the talk right now. Definitely saying all the right things and seems like a different guy. But if that doesn't work out, at least Earl can step in and match the physicality of some of these teams we're facing. If you look at our schedule, it's a who's who of off-the-charts monstrous, physical front sevens, one after another, after another.

I just watched every snap of the New Orleans game, and Watford battled, but he wasn't good—by any means. He was constantly helped by a TE on his side, and he gave up a ton of ground in pass pro. It's understandable because he was playing out of position (it remains mystifying that D.J. Humphries was so bad that he'd be shattered by playing OT for two games and was an inferior option to a guy who had never played the postiion before), but it sounds like people here—including you—are saying he played well. He did not play well—he played against inferior competition.

The Saints might not have had the best defense in the state of Louisiana last year.

Goodwin is calling Watford his swiss army knife.

http://espn.go.com/blog/arizona-car...watford-emerging-a-cardinals-swiss-army-knife

 

[Covert Rain]

I'm a bit surprised people aren't more worried about corner. HB wasn't ready until 2 years after his last ACL, Powers is gone, and Bethel was shaky at best as a #2.

What have we added at CB that could reasonably be expected to contribute immediately? I like the potential of many of them, but our window is small.

I really hope Leon Hall is a consideration, any credible depth at this point would be a major upgrade.

Count me in as a person that absolutely is. Huge questions marks at that position. I don't if there is anybody on the FA market that would shore up those questions marks. If Peterson goes down were are completely screwed. Then we have a bunch of question marks covering both corners. That says worry about it to me.

My hope is one of these young guys is an immediate contributor but it's a big if.

 

[THESMEL]

CB is an expensive position 2 decent rookie under contract expands our window of championship opportunity to the end of Fitz and Palmers careers -