Steve Nash is the Suns' Kurt Warner

[ASUCHRIS]

Nash is a smarter player than 99.99999999999999999999999993% of the players that have played in the NBA the past 20 years. A lot of people call Amare lazy and I have to scoff at them. I have no choice. A lazy person doesn't rehab back to the level Amare reached everytime he got injured.

Steve

Yeah, the argument that Stat was lazy is just stupid. If you follow the team closely, all reports were that he was the first one in, last out at practices. Further, he changed from a rookie that couldn't hit the broad side of a barn and tried to dunk everything to a well balanced and polished scorer with a beautiful jumper. That wasn't just magic, he worked his ass off.

 

[jagu]

To me, that just sounds like making excuses. You're probably right that he wasn't taught defense early in his career, but he's not some young rookie. He's played against guys that are good defenders and can avoid fouls. He wanted to be a star, a star depends not only on his coaches but on his own intelligence to improve. Coaching is a big part of it, but it's not the only part of it.

I agree completely.

 

[AzStevenCal]

To me, that just sounds like making excuses. You're probably right that he wasn't taught defense early in his career, but he's not some young rookie. He's played against guys that are good defenders and can avoid fouls. He wanted to be a star, a star depends not only on his coaches but on his own intelligence to improve. Coaching is a big part of it, but it's not the only part of it.

Amare's situation is different than just about any other playere. Usually, they get their basketball education in high school and sometimes college. He didn't play college and his high school education was inconsistent and obviously flawed. Everytime he turned around he was playing with a different group of players and a different coach and none of them were interested in teaching them fundamentals.

We knew all this when we drafted him but we were so eager to get him on the court we never made a real effort to fill in the missing gaps in his knowledge. And then, we put him under a head coach that didn't believe in defense. Call it excuses all you want but I'd be willing to wager that the vast majority of star athletes would have fared much the same if given the same circumstances.

Steve

 

[AzStevenCal]

I agree completely.

You could have just quoted Chap and signed off, we'd have had no doubt what your take is on this subject. If Amare returns your puppy will you forgive him and move on?

Steve

 

[ASUCHRIS]

And then, we put him under a head coach that didn't believe in defense.

Not only did he discourage defense, he actively preached a philosophy of not fouling the other team, as to keep the pace and flow of the game as fast as possible. Sounds like a formula for future defensive stalwarts.

 

[Mulli]

Hedo is the new Derek Anderson...

 

[desertdawg]

Hedo is the new Derek Anderson...

5/5

Warner is to Nash as Boldin is to Amare.
If Chris Paul goes to NY, they are in the play-offs every year.

 

[carrrnuttt]

5/5

Warner is to Nash as Boldin is to Amare.

Ouch. Really. Ouch.

 

[jagu]

You could have just quoted Chap and signed off, we'd have had no doubt what your take is on this subject. If Amare returns your puppy will you forgive him and move on?

Steve

Haha, every time I agree with a post about Amare or post something against Amare I'm gonna hear it lol. I feel about as unlucky as Lamar Odom last year against Phoenix

 

[desertdawg]

Ouch. Really. Ouch.

Boldin and Amare are doing great things now in new places, proving they were a part of big our success. Nash and Warner are both MVPs that run/ran the ship. I miss all 3 and will probably pout like a baby when Nash bounces.

 

[Covert Rain]

Yeah, the argument that Stat was lazy is just stupid. If you follow the team closely, all reports were that he was the first one in, last out at practices. Further, he changed from a rookie that couldn't hit the broad side of a barn and tried to dunk everything to a well balanced and polished scorer with a beautiful jumper. That wasn't just magic, he worked his ass off.

+ 1. Amare is NOT a lazy player (a la Diaw). He is just isn't the sharpest tool in the tool shed. He relies on instinct.

Amare worked his butt off in practices and read many counts about him getting extra work in.

Not only did he discourage defense, he actively preached a philosophy of not fouling the other team, as to keep the pace and flow of the game as fast as possible. Sounds like a formula for future defensive stalwarts.

Exactly. These guys are learning at the next level there first few years and I think that D'Antoni will forever have an impact on Amare's game because of it. Part of it is Amare's basketball smarts but the other part of it was D'Antoni IMO.

The Suns were all about finesse and flow under D'Antoni and the thought process was that if the Suns were talented enough they could turn the other cheek to defense.

If it wasn't for those damn metaling kids and their dog....they would have gotten away with it too.

 

[chickenhead]

We can compare Nash to Warner all we want, but the actual issue is that Warner was replaced with Derek Anderson--who will Nash be replaced with? Dragic in a #2 role has impressed a lot more than DA at #1. But of course, DA has been terrible so that's not exactly inspiring. I don't believe that plugging Dragic into Nash's spot and replacing his current role is an improvement. Hopefully the post-Nash era will be a little more thought-out than that. And better thought out than the Cardinals QB situation.

 

[Budden]

Do you think he wins that second time if he hadn't had the year he'd just had? Nash and Amare each brought the other national exposure and respect. Without that respect, Nash comes nowhere near an MVP IMO.

Haha, come on, Steve!

A. Your statement is that Nash couldn't have won a MVP award without Amar'e
B. Nash won a MVP award without Amar'e
C. Your statement is false.

Sometimes, you just gotta say, "Whoops, I was wrong." You make lots of thoughtful, well-informed posts on this board, and disagreeing with you on most of them in multiple-paragraph posts brings a lot of pleasure to my life. Please don't take that away from me by erroding your credibility by defending a factually untenable position. Please! It's bad enough that I have to watch a frontcourt of Channing Frye and Hedo "I'm a small forward" Turkoglu. Don't take this last bit of Suns joy away from me!

 

[Chaplin]

+ 1. Amare is NOT a lazy player (a la Diaw). He is just isn't the sharpest tool in the tool shed. He relies on instinct.

Amare worked his butt off in practices and read many counts about him getting extra work in.

Yes, he did, but it was always his jumpshot, his back-to-the-basket game, his 3-point shooting... Where is the word "defense" in that list?

And the whole Derek Anderson is Hedo joke--not even close. Hedo hasn't once lost a game single-handedly by himself. Derek Anderson loses games as soon as he touches a football.

 

[carrrnuttt]

And the whole Derek Anderson is Hedo joke--not even close. Hedo hasn't once lost a game single-handedly by himself. Derek Anderson loses games as soon as he touches a football.

LOL yeah.

DeWreck doesn't have an equivalent on the Suns, unless Hedo starts hitting the top of the backboard whenever he tries to shoot, while putting his feet under his teammates' after they jump [i.e. to expose them to injury].

 

[Chaplin]

LOL yeah.

DeWreck doesn't have an equivalent on the Suns, unless Hedo starts hitting the top of the backboard whenever he tries to shoot, while putting his feet under his teammates' after they jump [i.e. to expose them to injury].

And also passing the ball to the guy who's guarding him.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Haha, come on, Steve!

A. Your statement is that Nash couldn't have won a MVP award without Amar'e
B. Nash won a MVP award without Amar'e
C. Your statement is false.

Sometimes, you just gotta say, "Whoops, I was wrong." You make lots of thoughtful, well-informed posts on this board, and disagreeing with you on most of them in multiple-paragraph posts brings a lot of pleasure to my life. Please don't take that away from me by erroding your credibility by defending a factually untenable position. Please! It's bad enough that I have to watch a frontcourt of Channing Frye and Hedo "I'm a small forward" Turkoglu. Don't take this last bit of Suns joy away from me!

I think you're drawing a wrong conclusion here. I'm in no way suggesting that Nash didn't earn his MVP's. He benefitted from the backlash that kept Kobe from winning but he absolutely deserved his back to back awards. But, as I've said, I don't think he catches the voters eye that second season if it hadn't been for the tremendous year the Suns and Nash had just come off of when they captured the imagination of the NBA world.

Maybe he would have won it that second year even without his first award but I just find it doubtful. Much of the reason his name was at the forefront of the MVP argument was because of how well the Suns were playing without their second superstar. All of the credit for that second MVP goes to Nash and his ability to make others around him better but he does that every year and until he was paired with Amare he was never in the running.

Steve

 

[Covert Rain]

Yes, he did, but it was always his jumpshot, his back-to-the-basket game, his 3-point shooting... Where is the word "defense" in that list?

And the whole Derek Anderson is Hedo joke--not even close. Hedo hasn't once lost a game single-handedly by himself. Derek Anderson loses games as soon as he touches a football.

When you have a coaching staff that didn't give a crap about defense it's kind of hard to put the extra work in for that. He statistically improved almost every year until last year in at least one category I think. He couldn't stay there all night and probably worked on aspects of his game that the coaching staff felt was important for the team that was here.