Steve Wilks lawsuit against NFL

[TRW]

Wilks certainly was right about who the Cardinals should have drafted as quarterback. And who knows what kind of team they would have had if Josh Allen was the Cardinals quarterback.

Josh Allen would have been coached by Mike McCoy. Enough said.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Where did I say this? Stop putting words in my mouth.

There were plenty of people who questioned whether Murray was worth a 1st rounder, but that didn't mean late rounder either.

And....right....he deserves credit. Stout didn't give that to him one iota.

It doesn't make up for the fiasco from the year prior. Or all the other mistakes he made leading up to the Wilks year. But Murray wasn't the consensus best prospect in the draft, far from it. And Keim was right, Murray was the best player in that draft.

Consensus, no. “Far from it?” That’s a bit much. It wasn’t like anyone was shocked he was picked. He was largely considered the favorite for the cardinals selection. Whether people agreed with that or not is kinda irrelevant as we are talking about whether keim was smart in making the pick. When likely hundreds of thousands of even casual football fans would’ve made the same pick it’s not like your gm exhibited a lot of intelligence in doing so as well. He gets credit for doing the largely recognized right thing. It seems you want to want to give more. I could be wrong.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Consensus, no. “Far from it?” That’s a bit much. It wasn’t like anyone was shocked he was picked. He was largely considered the favorite for the cardinals selection. Whether people agreed with that or not is kinda irrelevant as we are talking about whether keim was smart in making the pick. When likely hundreds of thousands of even casual football fans would’ve made the same pick it’s not like your gm exhibited a lot of intelligence in doing so as well. He gets credit for doing the largely recognized right thing. It seems you want to want to give more. I could be wrong.

The scouting community pretty much all didn't believe in Murray.

There were tons of articles at the time that essentially said "the rumor is that the Cardinals are going to take Murray even though we have a second round grade on him".

The Broncos supposedly believed Drew Lock was better than Murray. Giants liked Daniel Jones more and articles said they would have taken him even at #1 overall.

So this largely recognized right thing is a figment of your imagination, or misrembrance.

 

[Stout]

The scouting community pretty much all didn't believe in Murray.

There were tons of articles at the time that essentially said "the rumor is that the Cardinals are going to take Murray even though we have a second round grade on him".

The Broncos supposedly believed Drew Lock was better than Murray. Giants liked Daniel Jones more and articles said they would have taken him even at #1 overall.

So this largely recognized right thing is a figment of your imagination, or misrembrance.

Links?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The scouting community pretty much all didn't believe in Murray.

There were tons of articles at the time that essentially said "the rumor is that the Cardinals are going to take Murray even though we have a second round grade on him".

The Broncos supposedly believed Drew Lock was better than Murray. Giants liked Daniel Jones more and articles said they would have taken him even at #1 overall.

So this largely recognized right thing is a figment of your imagination, or misrembrance.

I’d ask you post the “tons” that graded him as a second round pick, but I’ll settle for a measly 3. I don’t recall a single article grading murray as a 2nd round pick and lord knows (a) anything to do with the cardinals, particularly the draft, particularly when we have the first pick in the draft for the first time ever, pretty much finds it’s way onto ASFN; and (b) I read everything on the cardinals board.

 

[cardsfanmd]

I’d ask you post the “tons” that graded him as a second round pick, but I’ll settle for a measly 3. I don’t recall a single article grading murray as a 2nd round pick and lord knows (a) anything to do with the cardinals, particularly the draft, particularly when we have the first pick in the draft for the first time ever, pretty much finds it’s way onto ASFN; and (b) I read everything on the cardinals board.

I’d have to agree with this. There were plenty of pundits out there who didn’t like Murray as a prospect but I don’t recall anyone worth listening to who thought he would make it past Oakland, let alone SF.

 

[ScooterVanNeuter]

Hey, let's make some $$$

 

[BritCard]

I've stayed out of this thread because I think Wilks claims are so bogus it's beyond absurd.

He was clueless. As a defensive HC he had one of the worst defenses in the league. Players were running around not knowing where to line up as the ball was being snapped. The players we brought in many of them had Panthers connections and were obviously his suggestions. The guy put bricks in players lockers and a hurdle in the locker room. He probably had one of those cat posters that says "Hang in there" when we were getting hammered. He was complete garbage.

Racism is not selective. If somebody is racist they are racist to everyone. For Wilks to suggest the org was racist towards him while ignoring they traded a white QB after 1 year for a black one, had the first black female FO member in the NFL, have had one of the few Black GM's, have a long and deep history of employing black coaches including in senior roles and has several black employees in senior FO roles is preposterous.

The whole idea of hiring black coaches to fail is nuts frankly. As if NFL owners would be so dense. There are far more White coaches hired and fired in similar fashion as Wilks was. Freddie Kitchens, Chip Kelly at the Niners, Jim Tomsula at the Niners, Rob Chudzinski at the Browns, Mike Mularky at the Jags, Jim Mora, Bobby Petrino, Cam Cameron.

What they all have in common whether Black or White are garbage records and teams in disarray.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

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[kerouac9]

I've stayed out of this thread because I think Wilks claims are so bogus it's beyond absurd.

He was clueless. As a defensive HC he had one of the worst defenses in the league. Players were running around not knowing where to line up as the ball was being snapped. The players we brought in many of them had Panthers connections and were obviously his suggestions. The guy put bricks in players lockers and a hurdle in the locker room. He probably had one of those cat posters that says "Hang in there" when we were getting hammered. He was complete garbage.

Racism is not selective. If somebody is racist they are racist to everyone. For Wilks to suggest the org was racist towards him while ignoring they traded a white QB after 1 year for a black one, had the first black female FO member in the NFL, have had one of the few Black GM's, have a long and deep history of employing black coaches including in senior roles and has several black employees in senior FO roles is preposterous.

The whole idea of hiring black coaches to fail is nuts frankly. As if NFL owners would be so dense. There are far more White coaches hired and fired in similar fashion as Wilks was. Freddie Kitchens, Chip Kelly at the Niners, Jim Tomsula at the Niners, Rob Chudzinski at the Browns, Mike Mularky at the Jags, Jim Mora, Bobby Petrino, Cam Cameron.

What they all have in common whether Black or White are garbage records and teams in disarray.

What an odd sentiment.

 

[cardpa]

I think this is the reality, Wilks's dismissal was not racially motivated. If you look historically at the Cardinal organization, it would be hard to prove it's racially bias. That said, the organization did set Wilks up for failure and when the GM is hiring coaches without input from your HC that in itself is a problem. Most of the charges in the Wilks lawsuit are not racially related as much as they are a failure of the organization to support their new head coach and the idea of him being a interim coach to a new one the next year does have some merit.

Keim missing most of camp (DUI suspension) and being part of the process of that awful season and then not being held accountable for it is pretty much a fact. I believe Wilks feels he was a scapegoat and the lawsuit offers him an opportunity to strike back at the organization using racial bias as the reason.

Were the Cardinals racially bias against Wilks, I think not, were they a total failure at supporting him, I think that has merit.

 

[BritCard]

What an odd sentiment.

Only if you don't understand the literal definition of racism

"prejudiced against or antagonistic towards a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular racial or ethnic group."

 

[football karma]

the weird thing about the Wilks filing is that it references a bunch of stuff that have nothing to do with his claim

the "i wanted Josh Allen, but they took Josh Rosen" thing. I guess for Wilks it feels good to get that out in the public record, but that doesnt look like evidence of discrimination.

the Keim stuff is a good read (or depressing, depending on your POV) but its not evidence that supports his case. its more like, "if you think i was bad, look at this guy in a different role"

it reads more like an open letter to the NFL community to say "that season wasn't my fault, it was Steve Keim's fault"

 

[AZ Native]

Didn’t it all start when he was asked in a press conference (maybe his first) if he was going to change to a 4-3 defense or keep the 3-4 he said “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it”? Then proceeded to change it despite the personnel here.

 

[Russ Smith]

Didn’t it all start when he was asked in a press conference (maybe his first) if he was going to change to a 4-3 defense or keep the 3-4 he said “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it”? Then proceeded to change it despite the personnel here.

Yep. It's been pretty widely reported the Cards told him before hiring him they wanted to stay 3-4 and he said he was fine with it, and then after getting the job he switched to 4-3. He was hired in January so it's not like they didn't know by the draft what he was going to do. If you google it he didn't announce until April that we were a 4-3, I'm sure by then the organization knew and were scouting FA and the draft with that in mind but when they hired him in January, they were staying 4-3.

In a press conference he was asked why he switched and he said personnel, he thought Chandler Jones and Markus Golden were elite athletes and it made no sense to be 3-4 where one of them was often going to be dropping into coverage, he wanted a 4-3 where they were "always moving forward." That made sense, it sounds like the right thing to say but again if that was the plan, that should have been the plan he presented to the team when they interviewed him and it sure sounds like it wasn't.

 

[kerouac9]

Only if you don't understand the literal definition of racism

"prejudiced against or antagonistic towards a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular racial or ethnic group."

I mean, I guess if you think that the meaning of terms starts and ends with the dictionary, you can feel that way. I guess you're right and you probably have a better understanding of American racism than I do.

Plenty of people in the South have no problem with Black people serving them drinks or waiting their tables or driving their taxis. But if a Black person showed up at their door to take their daughter to the Junior Prom, it would be a catastrophe.

Whenever I hear people talk about Wilks being "clueless" or "stupid" or whatever even on this board it feels like it has a racial valance to me. There are lots of ways that prejudice and antagonism are expressed, overt and subtle.

 

[Ronin]

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Double the trouble?

 

[BritCard]

Whenever I hear people talk about Wilks being "clueless" or "stupid" or whatever even on this board it feels like it has a racial valance to me. There are lots of ways that prejudice and antagonism are expressed, overt and subtle.

He could just be clueless and stupid? People of all races are those things. He was a terrible HC. He was a terrible DC after. It has nothing to do with his skin color.

 

[kerouac9]

He could just be clueless and stupid? People of all races are those things. He was a terrible HC. He was a terrible DC after. It has nothing to do with his skin color.

I guess, but clueless and stupid people rarely rise to the pinnacle of their profession, in my experience. Especially without some of the more... genetic career accelerators that other coaches enjoy.

This is especially true when you're talking about someone you've never met or spoken with personally. I'm actually pretty sure that, like, Kliff Kingsbury and Steve Wilks and Steve Keim all know more about football than I do. Their failures aren't really about knowledge most of the time, they're about judgement.

Again, you probably know and understand more about American racism as a Brit than I do.

 

[BritCard]

I guess, but clueless and stupid people rarely rise to the pinnacle of their profession, in my experience. Especially without some of the more... genetic career accelerators that other coaches enjoy.

This is especially true when you're talking about someone you've never met or spoken with personally. I'm actually pretty sure that, like, Kliff Kingsbury and Steve Wilks and Steve Keim all know more about football than I do. Their failures aren't really about knowledge most of the time, they're about judgement.

Again, you probably know and understand more about American racism as a Brit than I do.

Wilks wasn't stupid. He was fairly clueless. He was hired into a position way above his abilities at that time. The Cards obviously thought they saw some HC qualities in there when they met him that wasn't evident in his single year as a DC. Wilks did have some charisma and gravitas about him, sadly he didn't have any of the football acumen required to be a good HC.

 

[cardsfanmd]

Whenever I hear people talk about Wilks being "clueless" or "stupid" or whatever even on this board it feels like it has a racial valance to me. There are lots of ways that prejudice and antagonism are expressed, overt and subtle.

So everyone says much worse things about Keim solely based on merit but anything said about Wilks is racist in intent lol?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

the weird thing about the Wilks filing is that it references a bunch of stuff that have nothing to do with his claim

the "i wanted Josh Allen, but they took Josh Rosen" thing. I guess for Wilks its feels good to get that out in the public record, but that doesnt look like evidence of discrimination.

the Keim stuff is a good read (or depressing, depending on your POV) but its not evidence that supports his case. its more like, "if you think i was bad, look at this guy in a different role"

it reads more like an open letter to the NFL community to say "that season wasn't my fault, it was Steve Keim's fault"

But that’s his point. It was Keim’s fault and bc he’s white he got a pass and all the blame went on the easy target, the black coach. Not saying I agree with him, but that’s the reason for that information being included.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I guess, but clueless and stupid people rarely rise to the pinnacle of their profession, in my experience. Especially without some of the more... genetic career accelerators that other coaches enjoy.

This is especially true when you're talking about someone you've never met or spoken with personally. I'm actually pretty sure that, like, Kliff Kingsbury and Steve Wilks and Steve Keim all know more about football than I do. Their failures aren't really about knowledge most of the time, they're about judgement.

Again, you probably know and understand more about American racism as a Brit than I do.

This might be one of the most intelligent statements I’ve ever seen made clearly and concisely on ASFN ever.

 

[football karma]

But that’s his point. It was Keim’s fault and bc he’s white he got a pass and all the blame went on the easy target, the black coach. Not saying I agree with him, but that’s the reason for that information being included.

the other way of describing what happened is: "employee gets fired for a problem mostly caused by his boss"

thats a dog bites man story.

to be clear -- it doesnt make it right

but its also not the basis for a claim where the employment contract was paid in full.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

the other way of describing what happened is: "employee gets fired for a problem mostly caused by his boss"

thats a dog bites man story.

to be clear -- it doesnt make it right

but its also not the basis for a claim where the employment contract was paid in full.

Getting canned after a single season can greatly reduce your chances of future opportunities. If he can prove the racism was at play he has a cause of action.