STL Post Dispatch Rams Talk For Good Laugh

[BigRedMO]

You all should go to STL PD to see Rams fan concoct up this fantasy of luring Big Red back to STL if they lose Rams. They are willing to give AZ the Raiders. They think you are indifferent about Big Red and will root for anybody. They have seized on the Bidwil Super Bowl spat with Glendale as proof of Bidwill unhappiness.

 

[don7031]

There is a little matter of the $1.2+ Billion it costs to build a new stadium which will be a prerequisite for luring a new team.

Coming from sharing Anaheim Stadium and previously the crappy Los Angeles Coliseum the Rams had a clause written into their 30 year lease requiring their new digs in St. Louis to be rated in the top eight of the league in various categories. It the stadium didn't meet the criteria they'd be able to walk away any time after twenty years. That clause is now in effect.

The Rams proposal to bring the stadium to top eight status was basically tear it down and build a new one. The city countered with a low ball offer and an arbitrator sided with the Rams.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

I would like to see the Rams move to LA and make our rivalry that much closer.

No way do the Cardinals move back to St. Louis.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

The absolutely only scenario that I could think of where the Cards would move back to StL:

1) Bill Sr still calling the shots...Michael is now in charge.
2) Brand new state of the art stadium...would have to be bigger/better than UoP.
3) Shifted back to NFC East...I'm sure deep down they miss the old traditional rivalries in the NFC East, even though the NFC West has been the better division the last couple of years.

IMO, all of those things would have to happen, at a minimum, for the Cards to even consider moving back.

 

[jmt]

STL is a baseball town. If the Cardinals belong anywhere else it is Chicago! No way they go back to STL and IMO the Rams will be back in LA.

 

[BigRedMO]

The absolutely only scenario that I could think of where the Cards would move back to StL:

1) Bill Sr still calling the shots...Michael is now in charge.
2) Brand new state of the art stadium...would have to be bigger/better than UoP.
3) Shifted back to NFC East...I'm sure deep down they miss the old traditional rivalries in the NFC East, even though the NFC West has been the better division the last couple of years.

IMO, all of those things would have to happen, at a minimum, for the Cards to even consider moving back.

You mean they need a Delorean time machine? All you had to say was there is a lease which I dont know terms but think it unlikely it cant be broken in next 20 years. The idea that Rams fans are so desperate to keep football they dont care what team and will create a fantasy about a team that no one is talking about in the mix to move. STL is in trouble again for same reason they lost Big Red. Bidwill waited three years for STL to build a stadium. Bad lease terms meant STL had to build a new stadium and they waited too long again just like with Bidwill. STL is so desperate they are willing to root for anyone and dont care who it is. they blame Bidwill for leaving despite facts but are so desperate they want him back.

 

[jmt]

I'm from Chicago and lived in St.Louis. They don't deserve a team and will lose the Rams. Hilarious they mention the Big Red returning when they basically ran us out of town. Btw, we had end zone seats at the old Busch - 10 games, $50 for the season! Saw OJ Anderson's first game and Joe Montana's first start.

 

[Bodha]

non topic, the only thing I wanted to comment on was the bit about "Theyd be willing to give AZ the Raiders" like they have the power to graciously give and take other sovereign teams at will.

 

[BigRedMO]

non topic, the only thing I wanted to comment on was the bit about "Theyd be willing to give AZ the Raiders" like they have the power to graciously give and take other sovereign teams at will.

I think it is funny too. I think what you refer to is unfortunately an American trait which comes from our belief that we have the right to dictate to other nations. I think it is just natural that Americans begin to think that way of themselves too.

 

[b8rtm8nn]

I'm from STL, they would do much better anchoring a soccer team than a football team - that is NOT an NFL city.

 

[Hollywood]

Link?

 

[Brak]

Baseball owns that town. Hell, it's more of a freaking BOWLING town than a football town! Rams are gone, they won't be getting another NFL team anytime soon, probably never again. MARK IT!!

 

[BigRedMO]

Link?

Not sure this will work but here it is. Title of subject was STL Raiders

http://interact.stltoday.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1093664

 

[waterboy]

STL is a baseball town. If the Cardinals belong anywhere else it is Chicago! No way they go back to STL and IMO the Rams will be back in LA.

This. Gussie Busch saw to this. Too much history and success with the baseball team for it to ever be anything else.

 

[BigRedMO]

Baseball owns that town. Hell, it's more of a freaking BOWLING town than a football town! Rams are gone, they won't be getting another NFL team anytime soon, probably never again. MARK IT!!

The Big Red was very much a second class citizen. Bidwill didnt get parking revenue or concessions. However fans supported them. The problem was that Bidwill's cheap ways which in era before revenue sharing were partly the product of his poor stadium deal made the local govts (city, county) feel like they had the leverage on Bidwill. Some fans also turned on him for lack of success without taking into account his operating at a disadvantage much like he did while playing at SDS which only increased the perception of leverage for city/county. Now tell me fans did not turn on him in AZ too. He waited three years for STL to build a stadium to replace smallest stadium in league which NFL said was inadequate. So fans paid price for its poor govt.

With Rams local govt once again blew it. They were so desperate for a team for its new dome that it made the Rams a deal which was awful for the city. The clause that required their stadium to be in top 8 was not maintainable and gave Rams all the leverage. So they went from thinking they had all leverage with Big Red to giving all the leverage to Rams. Neither instance was fans fault and they will support football. They have shown up to watch awful Rams teams. The stadium bill in AZ barely passed as I recall. Tell me the status of Big Red had it not been built. I believe Big Red would have already moved to LA had the stadium not been built.

 

[Garthshort]

BigRed, not only did the fans not recognize that the Big Red were operating at a disadvantage, but I think you did, also. You called the Bidwills cheap, instead of recognizing that they were barely keeping their heads above water. Only when the Cardinals got a new stadium, were they operating on an even keel with the other NFL teams. JMO.

 

[BigRedMO]

BigRed, not only did the fans not recognize that the Big Red were operating at a disadvantage, but I think you did, also. You called the Bidwills cheap, instead of recognizing that they were barely keeping their heads above water. Only when the Cardinals got a new stadium, were they operating on an even keel with the other NFL teams. JMO.

The NFL has had revenue sharing for a long time. Why did Bidwill continue some of his cheap ways like not paying Warner 500K incentive when he was within numbers to right of decimal of achieving goal and why did he allow Warner to talk to SF as FA (ESPN called Bidwill out for falling into old ways when he had opportunity at new start in regard to SF FA visit) and why did go cheap with Lindley. Why did the make Whiz stick with Derek Anderson when he wanted to sign Bulger. Article in AZ Republic stated Bulger was not signed for financial reasons. Why did they go with a DC who has been a paid assistant for only two years? How do you explain Bidwill never winning a Super Bowl and its best single season winning pct being 1975 at 11-3. How do you explain Bidwill never winning 12 games in a season?

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

If the Cardinals are moving anywhere it's to one of the reservations around town in 15-20 years (Mike would go to Talking Stick area now if possible). Landscape around sports gambling has changed a lot since the turn of the century so there will be no issues from the NFL, plenty of dirt for stadium and parking, and minimal construction red tape.

 

[Hollywood]

The NFL has had revenue sharing for a long time. Why did Bidwill continue some of his cheap ways like not paying Warner 500K incentive when he was within numbers to right of decimal of achieving goal and why did he allow Warner to talk to SF as FA (ESPN called Bidwill out for falling into old ways when he had opportunity at new start in regard to SF FA visit) and why did go cheap with Lindley. Why did the make Whiz stick with Derek Anderson when he wanted to sign Bulger. Article in AZ Republic stated Bulger was not signed for financial reasons. Why did they go with a DC who has been a paid assistant for only two years? How do you explain Bidwill never winning a Super Bowl and its best single season winning pct being 1975 at 11-3. How do you explain Bidwill never winning 12 games in a season?

Why did the cards eat Greens contract? Why did they give Bowles a big fat raise when they knew he was on his way out the door anyway? Why did they back a dumptruck up to Plumers house? Why did Bidwill pay for a new roof on a school and then get upset when the school told the media?

Your stick is not only old and tired but flat out wrong. Time to change the tune.

 

[NJCardFan]

Baseball owns that town. Hell, it's more of a freaking BOWLING town than a football town! Rams are gone, they won't be getting another NFL team anytime soon, probably never again. MARK IT!!

I went to a Cards game in STL in November of 1987. When I got off the plane, all I saw were baseball Cardinals stuff everywhere(they just came off losing the World Series). All over town is was baseball Cardinals. The stadium was 3/4 empty which was a shame because they missed a comeback after being down 28-3 in the 4th quarter. Worse yet, you wouldn't even know they STL had a hockey team. I saw Blues nothing there. So yeah, STL is a baseball town and a baseball town only.

 

[BigRedMO]

I went to a Cards game in STL in November of 1987. When I got off the plane, all I saw were baseball Cardinals stuff everywhere(they just came off losing the World Series). All over town is was baseball Cardinals. The stadium was 3/4 empty which was a shame because they missed a comeback after being down 28-3 in the 4th quarter. Worse yet, you wouldn't even know they STL had a hockey team. I saw Blues nothing there. So yeah, STL is a baseball town and a baseball town only.

In Nov 1987 it was clear that the Big Red was moving. Nobody would show up for a team that was no longer theirs. The Oilers drew terrible when the played in Memphis because locals knew it was interim stop while stadium was being built in Memphis. You really think a game less than one month from final game is a fair assessment of local support?

 

[BigRedMO]

In Nov 1987 it was clear that the Big Red was moving. Nobody would show up for a team that was no longer theirs. The Oilers drew terrible when the played in Memphis because locals knew it was interim stop while stadium was being built in Memphis. You really think a game less than one month from final game is a fair assessment of local support?

NJ Besides leaving out Big Red known to be moving you also left out the fact there was a work stoppage that hammered attendance everywhere.

Your comment about 3/4 empty was also inaccurate. Busch Stadium seated 54K and the three home games in Nov drew the following: 24,586, 22,449 and 27,730. To see how the strike hurt attendance note following road game attendance: at NO 11,795, at SF 38,094, at ATL 15,909, at TB 32,046 and at Dallas 36,788. Your entire post was blatantly dishonest.

 

[BigRedMO]

Why did the cards eat Greens contract? Why did they give Bowles a big fat raise when they knew he was on his way out the door anyway? Why did they back a dumptruck up to Plumers house? Why did Bidwill pay for a new roof on a school and then get upset when the school told the media?

Your stick is not only old and tired but flat out wrong. Time to change the tune.

I could care less if Bidwill builds a school or wastes money on a raise for a guy you said was known to be leaving. So you explain why he has NEVER won a Super Bowl and been to only one? Tell me how many years you will accept status quo before you want more?

 

[BigRedMO]

I could care less if Bidwill builds a school or wastes money on a raise for a guy you said was known to be leaving. So you explain why he has NEVER won a Super Bowl and been to only one? Tell me how many years you will accept status quo before you want more?

I could care less if Bidwill builds a school or wastes money on a raise for a guy you said was known to be leaving. The Big Red are an NFL franchise. They are not a charity. So you explain why he has NEVER won a Super Bowl and been to only one? Tell me how many years you will accept status quo before you want more? Do you believe that an owner owes no obligation of on field success to a community? Do you believe that the NFL should have no recourse if it concluded Bidwill or any owner was an incompetent owner and incapable of fulfilling minimum on field results? The NFL requires minimum player performance of they get cut. NFL owners require minimum performance from coaches or they get fired. Who holds owners to a minimum level of competence? Should the NFL hold owners to standards such as winning pct, playoff appearance and championships? If an owner doesnt measure up for whatever reason they are breaking a trust with the community. Shouldnt the NFL in order to protect their brand have a right to demand ownership results?

 

[NJCardFan]

I could care less if Bidwill builds a school or wastes money on a raise for a guy you said was known to be leaving. So you explain why he has NEVER won a Super Bowl and been to only one? Tell me how many years you will accept status quo before you want more?

Still better than the Lions and Browns.