Stop making a Messiah out of Kerr

[slinslin]

It's incredible how he everyone hated him and now everyone apparently loves him.

He came with a vision to turn the team into a more defensive minded team. That's great. He hired Porter and traded for Shaq and it didn't work so what did he do just half a month later?

He lost his credibility by going back to Gentry, going back to run and gun because Steve Nash apparently had more pull than him. Kerr just accommodated Nash and gave up on his own vision.

They went on to trade Shaq for nothing and Kerr reduced his vision on drafting rookies that fit that vision.

The Kerr-lovers say he rebuild this team on the fly but he did not. We have no young player with any sort of star potential. At the most we have Dragic and Lopez with the potential to be decent starters.

That is not rebuilding a team. You can't say you rebuild if you dont have a franchise player of any sort.

Kerr came to a team that was WCF material, he tried to turn them into a defensive team and failed. Then he went back to go with a fast paced team and they are back to a WCF quality team.

It's not like we are better than 3 years ago. We faced a short-handed Blazers team and an old Spurs team without any shooters.

We have a decent and hardworking bench with some youth but our key guys have only got older.

So yes while he did a better job lately it is not like he really build a team for the future here, we are pretty much still the same team we were before Kerr just with different role players.

It would have been nice if he stayed but I am not sure he deserved a pay raise if that was the key based on his record. It's not the end of the world, rebuilding this team is inevitable anyway.

 

[Bufalay]

I bet you'll change your tune when you find out that his replacement is Tom Leander.

 

[TBaslim]

While I agree with the OP's sentiment, I take one exception. The Suns had and still have their franchise player through all of this noise: Steve Nash.

The reality is that from 2004 till Steve runs out of gas (and who knows when that will be given his play this year), the Suns are Nash's team. It's a system built around his unique talents, evolved to meet the talent at hand.

And frankly, that's the right approach in the NBA. The league is full of extremely talented ball players. The best teams build around those players that are clearly among the best at their position. Something has to differentiate amongst so much talent. Nash's skills and the system built around them are that for the Suns.

So until he hangs 'em up or wants to leave, there is no reason to 'rebuild with a new franchise player'. There are a lot of reasons to retool around him year after year.

The question that looms for Sarver is what happens when Nash leaves, not so much Amare (which breaks my heart to say - I thought he was the big man we had needed for 30 years when we drafted him).

Can Saver either keep the people who can draft well and find a franchise player, or can he attract a free agent of that caliber in a few years?

Until then, I think the results on the court stay fairly good if Nash is in good health and paired with a high quality coach who buys into the system and can get the most out of the pieces he has (Gentry is so perfect at this).

 

[SunsTzu]

I bet you'll change your tune when you find out that his replacement is Tom Leander.

My money is on Vinny Del Negro!

 

[slinslin]

While I agree with the OP's sentiment, I take one exception. The Suns had and still have their franchise player through all of this noise: Steve Nash.

That's great but you can't call it rebuilding on the fly if your franchise player is 37 and you have nobody to replace him with.

 

[Mainstreet]

I thought Kerr had finally gained enough of Sarver's confidence and that he could build the Suns as he liked, although with fiscal responsibility. I knocked Kerr a lot before this season until I thought I could see some light at the end of the tunnel. Kerr seemed to have a genuine plan to rebuild the Suns and even more importantly, he seemed to have Sarver's blessings. How wrong I was. I'm thinking Kerr and Griffin leaving is because they wanted to extend Stoudemire and Sarver said no.

 

[TBaslim]

That's great but you can't call it rebuilding on the fly if your franchise player is 37 and you have nobody to replace him with.

My point is replacing him entails having him leave, because a new system will need to be developed around a new franchise player - a true #1 guy - and his unique talents.

Amare had the potential to be that player...I think even most who want him to stay here for top $$ do not think that anymore.

JJ has the talent but not the personality.

Rondo might have been it, but I'm not clear if the Suns saw in him what the Celtics did. I would guess they had concerns about his personality and his jumpshot. You can usually only fix one of the those two.

I just think it is unrealistic to rebuild including a new franchise player while the current one is still playing very well and they have had sustained success in that model.

Look at the transition after Barkley was traded and KJ retired. It took awhile. They tried it with Kidd, then Marbury, then rediscovered Nash and ran with it. There will likely be some searching when the Nash era ends, baring some really good luck.

Argue as much as you want about choosing a PG for the franchise position to target, but it's what they have done and had success from over the years.

 

[slinslin]

Also in my opinion it seemed like Kerr mishandled a lot of trade speculation.

The whole fiasco with the shopping of Shaq and Amare apparently did not seem very professional. Even worse the whole Golden State - Phoenix speculation last year was ridiculous.

Kerr clearly deserves some blame for that as well.

 

[Sunburn]

Was Kerr good at his job when first hired? No. Did he learn on the job? Yes. Kerr seemed to have been coming into his own and it appears he had a good eye for talent. You don't employ a GM when he's green and then get rid of him just when he's becoming good at his job. That's the Wall Street equivalent of buying high and selling low. Not to mention the effect on morale the loss of the well liked Kerr has caused. Now, who replaces him? Let me guess, someone with little to no experience, who will do the job cheaply yet poorly until he gains more experience. This next someone will have the parts Kerr has assembled yet his own vision for how to build a basketball team, if there is any vision at all. The organization's FO is right back at square one. Tell me how Kerr leaving is good for this organization.

 

[Tyler]

Kerr became nothing more than a decent GM. He will not be that hard to replace. I would like to see a former Sun become the GM, a career Sun.

 

[jandaman]

Nash is going to get promoted to GM and get someone else to do the paper work whilst he makes all the decisions (player movement wise) and at the same time play as the starting point guard.

That would be sweet as!

 

[slinslin]

Nash is going to get promoted to GM and get someone else to do the paper work whilst he makes all the decisions (player movement wise) and at the same time play as the starting point guard.

That would be sweet as!

That would be horrible.

 

[Sunburn]

Nash is going to get promoted to GM and get someone else to do the paper work whilst he makes all the decisions (player movement wise) and at the same time play as the starting point guard.

That would be sweet as!

At this point, might as well. He's the most talented basketball mind on the Suns besides perhaps Gentry at the moment.

 

[jandaman]

Lol, dont take it serious.. but imagine Charles as the next GM.

Charles Barkley:

Strengths: Upfront, will tell you if you're worth it or not. Will tell other GMs trying to lowball the franchise to go where the sun (pun intended) dont shine. Will probably be vocal enough that Suns fans will get plenty of information about trades and other GM stuff because of his connection to the media and his big mouth. Hates NON-REBOUNDING, NONE physical Big men!
Is a BIG fan of Steve Nash and the high tempo Suns, has a good chance to recreate a style similar to the 1993 Finals team. Aint as "dumb" as he looks on TV.

- Cons: Not the smartest man but far from dumb. Gambling addiction. Will offend GMs when he tells them to go to hell.

 

[jandaman]

That would be horrible.

Um.. yes I forgot the green font....

Wasnt suppose to be serious.... trying to mock Sarver's thinking...

"Nash is highest paid player... might as well ask him to take on another responsibility to get my money's worth" - Sarver

 

[jandaman]

At this point, might as well. He's the most talented basketball mind on the Suns besides perhaps Gentry at the moment.

even though its supposed to be non-serious..

Nash does have some qualities to be a GM... he is smart.. basketball wise (and off court too)

And atleast he'd always create that High tempo, entertaining team all through out his tenure.

 

[slinslin]

Nash doesn't have GM qualities. GMs need to make hard decisions and Steve Nash isn't the type of person that is going to make those business decisions and get rid off players necessary etc.

 

[Irish]

I'm willing to buy the idea that Kerr was a flawed GM. If you said the guy who hired Porter is not bright enough to be GM, then I could buy the idea a change be made. But that is not what Sarver has done. So far it is just Kerr and Griffin, but I get the feeling the entire ftont office has been alienated.

Kerr is no savior, but that does not reassure me about Sarver. If Kerr was not all he should have been, who in the heck hired him?

 

[binkar]

I bet you'll change your tune when you find out that his replacement is Tom Leander.

HAHAHA! Best thing I have read in awhile... Leander is actually a really nice guy, but an awfully annoying commentator.

 

[chickenhead]

I think people are reacting to the implications of Kerr's departure. The man was asked to take a 10% pay cut after reaching the WCF. How could it not be troubling? The assumption is that the new GM cannot make more than Kerr's adjusted salary, which leads us to believe that the organization will not eliminating a whole range of candidates. If the Suns DO hire a GM for more than what Kerr was asked to accept, well, then I don't like the way the business was done.

 

[Gaddabout]

It's incredible how he everyone hated him and now everyone apparently loves him.

He came with a vision to turn the team into a more defensive minded team. That's great. He hired Porter and traded for Shaq and it didn't work so what did he do just half a month later?

He lost his credibility by going back to Gentry, going back to run and gun because Steve Nash apparently had more pull than him. Kerr just accommodated Nash and gave up on his own vision.

They went on to trade Shaq for nothing and Kerr reduced his vision on drafting rookies that fit that vision.

The Kerr-lovers say he rebuild this team on the fly but he did not. We have no young player with any sort of star potential. At the most we have Dragic and Lopez with the potential to be decent starters.

That is not rebuilding a team. You can't say you rebuild if you dont have a franchise player of any sort.

Kerr came to a team that was WCF material, he tried to turn them into a defensive team and failed. Then he went back to go with a fast paced team and they are back to a WCF quality team.

It's not like we are better than 3 years ago. We faced a short-handed Blazers team and an old Spurs team without any shooters.

We have a decent and hardworking bench with some youth but our key guys have only got older.

So yes while he did a better job lately it is not like he really build a team for the future here, we are pretty much still the same team we were before Kerr just with different role players.

It would have been nice if he stayed but I am not sure he deserved a pay raise if that was the key based on his record. It's not the end of the world, rebuilding this team is inevitable anyway.

What slin failed to realize is Kerr did what Sarver asked him to do, which is retool rather that blow up the team and start from scratch. Sarver REFUSES to start over. So slin's dream of trading Nash to become a true defensive team goes back to the owner, not the GM who left because the owner micromanages the organization. We really have no idea what this team would look like under Kerr's vision -- because we never saw Kerr's vision implemented.

What is amazing is what Kerr did under dubious circumstances (i.e. demands to cut salary while maintaining the team's lofty goals). That's not turning him into a messiah. It's simply a fact that Kerr really did do an excellent job given the circumstances.

 

[Yuma]

I wasn't sad to see Kerr go. I was indifferent. What I found disturbing is how Sarver basically forced Kerr out. I also wonder if that is a signal we won't resign Amare for big bucks either. That means we won't sign Bosh or any other big free agent either. As far as trading Nash and starting over, after watching other point guards in this year's playoffs, it's a sad state of affairs in the NBA when old man Nash is playing better than most PGs in the playoffs.

 

[Irish]

I wasn't sad to see Kerr go. I was indifferent. What I found disturbing is how Sarver basically forced Kerr out. I also wonder if that is a signal we won't resign Amare for big bucks either. That means we won't sign Bosh or any other big free agent either. As far as trading Nash and starting over, after watching other point guards in this year's playoffs, it's a sad state of affairs in the NBA when old man Nash is playing better than most PGs in the playoffs.

Obviously, the question of paying Amare is only marginally based on Sarver being cheap. He may be. But the case for not wanting to lock in anybody to a max contract in wake of a new collective bargaining agreement next year and a troubling health history is pretty strong.

I would not be surprised if Nash got traded to Toronto. He is very very popular in Canada and BC loves offense. If the Suns are going into the deep rebuilding mode, Nash makes no sense in their long orientation.

Another "expendible" player is likely to be Jason Richardon. He has serious value to a contender that needs offense who will also give some defense.
He also has value as an expiring contract, though not as much if the Suns already have a huge trade exemption.

Sarver may have a problem in selling season tickets once Amare and Steve are gone. Suns fans are not famous for their patience and the years of losing while waiting for young players mature may not be pleasant. But at least having a low salary strucutre will make it easier to sell the team.

 

[Sunburn]

Obviously, the question of paying Amare is only marginally based on Sarver being cheap. He may be. But the case for not wanting to lock in anybody to a max contract in wake of a new collective bargaining agreement next year and a troubling health history is pretty strong.

I would not be surprised if Nash got traded to Toronto. He is very very popular in Canada and BC loves offense. If the Suns are going into the deep rebuilding mode, Nash makes no sense in their long orientation.

Another "expendible" player is likely to be Jason Richardon. He has serious value to a contender that needs offense who will also give some defense.
He also has value as an expiring contract, though not as much if the Suns already have a huge trade exemption.

Sarver may have a problem in selling season tickets once Amare and Steve are gone. Suns fans are not famous for their patience and the years of losing while waiting for young players mature may not be pleasant. But at least having a low salary strucutre will make it easier to sell the team.

If that's what it takes to get rid of this ass hat then so be it. We'll be better in the long run for it.

 

[pokerface]

Nash doesn't have GM qualities. GMs need to make hard decisions and Steve Nash isn't the type of person that is going to make those business decisions and get rid off players necessary etc.

Yeah and Amare doesnt have powerforward qualities either but he stills plays as one.