Stoudemire for Garnett?

[elindholm]

So they get cap relief and go out and sign a max player. Who are they going to get with their max money that would be a better fit than Marion?

The possibilities are numerous. Marion isn't the kind of player you build a franchise around.

 

[JCSunsfan]

So they get cap relief and go out and sign a max player. Who are they going to get with their max money that would be a better fit than Marion?

The possibilities are numerous. Marion isn't the kind of player you build a franchise around.

Fire away. Seriously. I'd like to hear your top 5--under these conditions.

They will be free agents in the next 3 years. They would be better players than Marion (or better to build a team around). And there is at least a reasonable possibility that they would switch teams.

 

[JCSunsfan]

OK, I just looked at the league rosters. Here is a list of the higher profile FA's in the next 3 years that would remotely be more desirable than Marion.

1. Paul Pierce
2. Vince Carter
3. Chris Bosh
4. Dirk Nowitski
5. Carmelo Anthony

That's it.

Of those, there is a 95% probability that Pierce and Nowitski will resign with their present teams.

I can't see Bryan Colangelo letting Bosh walk.

That leaves Carter and Anthony.

Now would you leave a guaranteed pickup of Marion on the table, to compete with all the other teams in free agency to have a chance of getting either Vince Carter or Carmelo Anthony?

I suppose some would, but Minny isn't exactly a free agent magnet. It would be a foolish gamble.

Minnesota's best bet is to keep KG, of course, but his whole thread was started on the speculative premise of KG wanting out.

 

[elindholm]

Fire away. Seriously. I'd like to hear your top 5--under these conditions.

I looked it over. There aren't a lot of UFAs who would help, and none better than Marion. I stand corrected there. So it would have be a RFA.

Let's assume, just to streamline things, that we're talking about the deal where Minnesota and Blount go to the Knicks for Houston, Frye, Lee, and picks. That puts them in the summer of 2007 with a core of Frye, Davis, Lee, Jaric, McCants, and I guess Griffin. They may not quite have room for a maximum free agent in that scenario, but if necessary, let's say they also figure out a way to pawn off Hudson or even Madsen.

So here are the big RFAs in summer 2007, with my assessment of how likely it is that they might change teams:

Chris Bosh -- the big question mark, can't count on him staying
LeBron James -- pretty unlikely, but not unthinkable
Carmelo Anthony -- would require a big personality clash in Denver for him to leave, very unlikely
Dwyane Wade -- no chance
Josh Howard -- poised on the verge of stardom, could be another Joe Johnson type, has potential to surpass Marion in my opinion but stuck behind too many stars in Dallas
David West -- nowhere near Marion's level yet, but by summer after next, who knows?
Chris Kaman -- has made huge strides this year; if he gets much better, look out

Overall, I'd have to say that you're right, and Marion/Bell looks like a deal that's at least comparable to what they might get from another team. But it's all pretty unclear.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Fire away. Seriously. I'd like to hear your top 5--under these conditions.

I looked it over. There aren't a lot of UFAs who would help, and none better than Marion. I stand corrected there. So it would have be a RFA.

Let's assume, just to streamline things, that we're talking about the deal where Minnesota and Blount go to the Knicks for Houston, Frye, Lee, and picks. That puts them in the summer of 2007 with a core of Frye, Davis, Lee, Jaric, McCants, and I guess Griffin. They may not quite have room for a maximum free agent in that scenario, but if necessary, let's say they also figure out a way to pawn off Hudson or even Madsen.

So here are the big RFAs in summer 2007, with my assessment of how likely it is that they might change teams:

Chris Bosh -- the big question mark, can't count on him staying
LeBron James -- pretty unlikely, but not unthinkable
Carmelo Anthony -- would require a big personality clash in Denver for him to leave, very unlikely
Dwyane Wade -- no chance
Josh Howard -- poised on the verge of stardom, could be another Joe Johnson type, has potential to surpass Marion in my opinion but stuck behind too many stars in Dallas
David West -- nowhere near Marion's level yet, but by summer after next, who knows?
Chris Kaman -- has made huge strides this year; if he gets much better, look out

Overall, I'd have to say that you're right, and Marion/Bell looks like a deal that's at least comparable to what they might get from another team. But it's all pretty unclear.

This is assuming that Minny mgmt is sane, and doesn't treat "cap space" like its an actual player. "Cap space" never yet scored a point or grabbed a rebound, its value is in how you are able to spend it. Unfortunately mgmt in Atlanta and New Orleans hasn't figured that out yet.

 

[elindholm]

Unfortunately mgmt in Atlanta and New Orleans hasn't figured that out yet.

There are cases when it works and cases when it doesn't. The Suns dumped Marbury for "cap space," and while at the time I disliked the move, I have to admit it has worked out pretty well.

 

[jibikao]

Bill Simmons from ESPN on this year's MVP race. It's all pretty ugly stuff, but especially nasty is the gratuitous slash he takes at Kevin Garnett:

Quote:
[SIZE=-2]Kevin Garnett: Can you name another alleged "superstar in his prime" who missed the playoffs for two straight seasons? How was his supporting cast worse than Gasol's crew in Memphis, or even Chris Paul's team in New Orleans? Did you know that we haven't had a former MVP miss the playoffs in consecutive seasons in his prime since Bob McAdoo (who never should have won the MVP in the first place because Rick Barry got robbed)? Isn't it his job to carry a crappy team? What do you think Barkley was doing in the late-'80s and early-'90s in Philly? Nobody in the league gets more of a free ride than KG. Nobody.

(Note: There's a difference between being "competitive" and being "no fun whatsover to play with," and KG crossed that line about five years ago. You can't carry yourself that way for eight months each season without eventually committing a homicide. You just can't. He's wound too tight. So if you're reading this 50 years from now and wondering why KG only made it past Round 1 once in his career -- as well as why he murdered everyone in Minnesota's locker room after a 20-point blowout loss during the 2007-08 season -- please consider everything in this parentheses. Thank you.)[/SIZE]
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page...=simmons/060414

-------------

Do we still want KG? Is he REALLY the #1 superstar that can carry the team or he is more like Pippen type of superstar who plays best when he is #2 option?

 

[devilalum]

Bill Simmons from ESPN on this year's MVP race. It's all pretty ugly stuff, but especially nasty is the gratuitous slash he takes at Kevin Garnett:

Quote:
[SIZE=-2]Kevin Garnett: Can you name another alleged "superstar in his prime" who missed the playoffs for two straight seasons? How was his supporting cast worse than Gasol's crew in Memphis, or even Chris Paul's team in New Orleans? Did you know that we haven't had a former MVP miss the playoffs in consecutive seasons in his prime since Bob McAdoo (who never should have won the MVP in the first place because Rick Barry got robbed)? Isn't it his job to carry a crappy team? What do you think Barkley was doing in the late-'80s and early-'90s in Philly? Nobody in the league gets more of a free ride than KG. Nobody.

(Note: There's a difference between being "competitive" and being "no fun whatsover to play with," and KG crossed that line about five years ago. You can't carry yourself that way for eight months each season without eventually committing a homicide. You just can't. He's wound too tight. So if you're reading this 50 years from now and wondering why KG only made it past Round 1 once in his career -- as well as why he murdered everyone in Minnesota's locker room after a 20-point blowout loss during the 2007-08 season -- please consider everything in this parentheses. Thank you.)[/SIZE]
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page...=simmons/060414

-------------

Do we still want KG? Is he REALLY the #1 superstar that can carry the team or he is more like Pippen type of superstar who plays best when he is #2 option?

He makes some valid points. Kobe has less around him than KG and his team is the 7 seed. When you watch KG you can see that he is a truly dominant player but for some reason it just doesn't translate to winning.

He's an awesome player but its pretty obvious that he can't carry a team. If some team does trade for him they better have at least another All Star or 2 if they want to win big.

Another thing to consider is that it is much harder for one player to carry a team now than it was before the rule changes. Teams with dominant big men used to run those awful isolation plays the whole game. That doesn't work anymore. This is why Shaq believes that Jerry Colangelo destroyed his career.

 

[fordronken]

In the article, he also said that the Suns are scared of the Lakers in the first round.

 

[elindholm]

This is why Shaq believes that Jerry Colangelo destroyed his career.

Colangelo prevented O'Neal from staying in shape? That bastard!

 

[devilalum]

In the article, he also said that the Suns are scared of the Lakers in the first round.

This makes no sense. The Lakers lack the one thing that the Suns do have to worry about.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

This makes no sense. The Lakers lack the one thing that the Suns do have to worry about.

Kobe Bryant?!?

But i'm with you.....

 

[devilalum]

Kobe Bryant?!?

But i'm with you.....

The Kobe conundrum was emphatically illustrated in one game.

He put up 81 against one of the worst teams in the league and they barely won.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

The Kobe conundrum was emphatically illustrated in one game.

He put up 81 against one of the worst teams in the league and they barely won.

And he put up 62 points against one of the best team in the league in 3 quarters.....when they only scored 61! And they destroyed them.


Kobe will not win a series by himself against one of the top 3 teams in the west. He will however win 1-2 games all by himself.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Wasn't the Suns strategy on Kobe last time to have Raja play him straight up?

Kobe takes that as an insult and goes 1 on 1 nearly every time down the court. He leaves his teamates out of the offensive rotation and eventually wears down.

Suns win.

It must be tough to be a Laker fan these days. Long gone are the days when Magic was distributing the ball to Kareem for the sky hook, Worthy for the finger roll, Byron Scott for the 3 or just taking it to the rim himself.

Its that kind of team game that makes basketball interesting.

 

[devilalum]

And he put up 62 points against one of the best team in the league in 3 quarters.....when they only scored 61! And they destroyed them.


Kobe will not win a series by himself against one of the top 3 teams in the west. He will however win 1-2 games all by himself.

And he scored 50 on the Suns the other day in a game that the Suns didn't have to exert a lot of energy to win.

 

[jibikao]

How does KG post become Kobe post again?

I think it's safe to say that Kobe has accomplished a lot MORE than KG. Hell, Kobe's team is a playoff team this season whereas KG's team is tanking right now. How embarrasing.

I think the writer has a good point. KG has been given free pass for a long long time. There is a reason why Pippen criticized him. KG hasn't really translated his stats into wins.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Do we still want KG? Is he REALLY the #1 superstar that can carry the team or he is more like Pippen type of superstar who plays best when he is #2 option?

That's why you don't trade Amare for KG.

The more important question is whether KG would be a better #2 type of player than Marion is.

Again. Many on this board think its an absolute yes. I'm not sure its that clear cut. KG's size advantage over Shawn does make it tempting.