Stoudemire = Headcase

[scotsman13]

I know somebody's already thought about this, so spill the beans. What would be the most advantageous trade for the Suns if they decided it was in the team's best interest to trade Amare?

at the end of the season to trade amare, the hawks draft pick and a couple more over the years for gregg oden would be the best move.

 

[Mainstreet]

I know somebody's already thought about this, so spill the beans. What would be the most advantageous trade for the Suns if they decided it was in the team's best interest to trade Amare?

IMO, as of today, Amare does not have much trade value. If he gets healthy, then he might command some nice young talent (remember Joe Johnson and Boris Diaw when they arrived in Phoenix) and filler

Due to Amare's max contract and questionable health, right now I think the Suns would only receive expiring contracts and maybe a pick or a young player in return. The best case scenario would be when the Suns traded a healthy Larry Nance for an unproven Kevin Johnson and Ty Corbin, Mark West and a first round pick (Dan Marjerle). There may have been more pieces as I did not research it.

I'm not pushing to trade Amare, just trying to answer your question. I guess it's how Phoenix's management project Amare's future and if another team wants to gamble big time. Maybe it's like playing high stakes poker. Such a proposed trade would probably prove boom or bust for both teams.

 

[nowagimp]

Amare had a tough childhood, then came into the NBA directly from high school, and after only a few years, completely destroyed Tim Duncan, one of the best defenders in the NBA, at the tune of 37ppg in the WCF.

Then, he had to undergo a surgery that has essentially ended the careers of several athletes, and the ups and downs of the recovery process got him doubting himself a little. That's understandable, anybody would go through that. He's not a headcase.

What's important is that he's out on the court and playing, and playing relatively well.

If amare is a head case, there are few on this board "who can cast the first stone". This amare injury discussion over the past year has exposed alot of suns fans as mild(at least) headcases. Surely, something has happened to Amare, but we, and he, do not understand the fullness of the implications yet. What Amare has gone through no one but he knows. Give him some room, stop having an Amare story every day or at least stop reading it. Amare should not have to make an announcement after every practice, scrimmage or preseason game. Its just journalists making you read their crap on the same story every 2-3 days.

 

[boisesuns]

If amare is a head case, there are few on this board "who can cast the first stone". This amare injury discussion over the past year has exposed alot of suns fans as mild(at least) headcases. Surely, something has happened to Amare, but we, and he, do not understand the fullness of the implications yet. What Amare has gone through no one but he knows. Give him some room, stop having an Amare story every day or at least stop reading it. Amare should not have to make an announcement after every practice, scrimmage or preseason game. Its just journalists making you read their crap on the same story every 2-3 days.

 

[elindholm]

If amare is a head case, there are few on this board "who can cast the first stone".

He's getting paid $12 million this year. It's appropriate to hold him to a higher standard than people on this board. If you want to receive elite compensation in our society, you need to produce elite results.

 

[TucsonDevil]

If amare is a head case, there are few on this board "who can cast the first stone".

I have a stone in my hand and several in my pockets. I am ready.

Seriously - at this point in time, who cares? I am not going to start to worry about this until around Christmas/New Years. I want to see Amare prove or disprove things for several weeks in a row.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Well that was the worst Amare related article of all time....I give up.

So not only do we have to worry about his physical issues now and in the future, but also the fact that he is being a unmotivated selfish malcontent. I felt like alot of the input was the writers opinion but where there is smoke theres usually a fire.

We all loved his bravado pre-injury. It was great then when he was dominating. But once got limited by the knee - bravado turns into ego and petulance.

Sweet - just sign Diaw now and lets get the STAT, Barbosa, High pick for KG deal done NOW!

 

[boisesuns]

If amare is a head case, there are few on this board "who can cast the first stone".

He's getting paid $12 million this year. It's appropriate to hold him to a higher standard than people on this board. If you want to receive elite compensation in our society, you need to produce elite results.

Or at least score a huge contract based on past results!

 

[Amare32]

The sooner the season starts so Amare can improve and be what he was the better. Then the stupid articles will stop being printed every week. Getting quite annoying now.

 

[NastyOne]

The sooner the season starts so Amare can improve and be what he was the better. Then the stupid articles will stop being printed every week. Getting quite annoying now.

Thank You!

This is really starting to get on my nerves.

How about we actually give our young star the benefit of doubt before we cast him away already?

 

[msdundee]

"How about we actually give our young star the benefit of doubt before we cast him away already?"

Absolutely. It's hard to believe the Amare trade scenarios popping up everywhere on the boards.

This is by NO means an attempt to compare Amare with a horse, but there's a correlation. The best quarterhorse we have developed a dysfunction in his suspension ligament, a serious problem. We've already spent more in vet bills and treatment than we paid for him, and that's a lot, but he's on the mend now and well worth it. There's no ironclad guarantee he won't have problems in the future but we never considered giving up on him. He's young, the potential is there, and he's one of the best we've got.

Amare's young, he's proven his worth, and he's one of the best. As much as is humanly possible, he'll be back.

 

[nowagimp]

If amare is a head case, there are few on this board "who can cast the first stone".

He's getting paid $12 million this year. It's appropriate to hold him to a higher standard than people on this board. If you want to receive elite compensation in our society, you need to produce elite results.

Sure then, hold him to a higher standard, but he's getting paid to play basketball, judge him on that, not what a sports writer(who makes his living on controversy) says "Amare said". When the regular season starts, and theyre playing real basketball, go ahead. This hyping what he supposedly says, and how he looks when he's trying to fit in during training camp, is just a little bit neurotic. And about elite compensation and elite performance in "this society": you know thats alot of crap in a world of rich bad actors and equally rich horrible musicians, we only hold the jocks to standards?

Yeah, I can remember how the 2 time MVP started off last season, how many were saying he should be traded or he wasnt that good, even though he had a new cast of players to work with. I'm sure judgements will be made about Amare by many of the same people. I'm only worried how he looks at midseason, will he be ready for the championship run, I'll let others worry about his 150 interviews and his mental healing, I'll worry how he can contribute with his basketball skills.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Yeah, I can remember how the 2 time MVP started off last season, how many were saying he should be traded or he wasnt that good, even though he had a new cast of players to work with.

were people actually saying this? I wasn't on the board at that time but I find the above statement very hard to believe.

 

[nowagimp]

were people actually saying this? I wasn't on the board at that time but I find the above statement very hard to believe.

Some were saying trade him( one posters identity was even "tradenash") some were saying that he just wasnt that good without Amare(he definitely was "that good"). Most didnt realize that time was needed for the new pieces to play together. It was about the first 10-15 games if I recall that it took for some form of effective team play. Nash was forcing things a bit and turning the ball over more than he does because they just werent used to playing together. I think that Amare will also take time to fit in, these other guys just dont know him as a player and have said as much. I'll be looking how Amare is playing at about the 30-35 game mark. At that time, I will be able to evaluate his potential contributions in the postseason.

 

[devilalum]

I read that Amare's changing his number to "1" has something to do with his religious beliefs. One god or something like that.

 

[fordronken]

Am I the only one who was hoping that Amare's number change coincided with a conversion to Islam and that he would suddenly become something like Mustafa Abu-Shakir?

 

[Covert Rain]

The only thing I can say is that I went to the game. What I saw on the court worried me a bit. The team looked totally out of sync when he was in there. The other thing that was noticeable, is almost every time down the court Amare was dead last. The old Amare was always on the break and not the last one down. He consistantly was the last man down when he was in there.

Now factor in he was not agressive at all. Instead of trying to dunk the ball a couple times, he decided to try little reverse layups. He just doesn't look right at all to me. Either Amare physically is not ready or Amare has some real confidence issues right now. I think he will get there but seeing him in person.....was a little eye opening for me.

 

[devilalum]

Am I the only one who was hoping that Amare's number change coincided with a conversion to Islam and that he would suddenly become something like Mustafa Abu-Shakir?

Yes

 

[SO91]

The only thing I can say is that I went to the game. What I saw on the court worried me a bit. The team looked totally out of sync when he was in there. The other thing that was noticeable, is almost every time down the court Amare was dead last. The old Amare was always on the break and not the last one down. He consistantly was the last man down when he was in there.

It's preseason buddy...he's conditioning is not where it needs to be YET!! Let's give him some time okay.

 

[jibikao]

Didn't pay any atttention to the off-season throughout the summer and it is very surprising to me that Amare is still NOT READY???!!

WTF??

How much time does he need?

 

[Covert Rain]

It's preseason buddy...he's conditioning is not where it needs to be YET!! Let's give him some time okay.

Your kidding right? I saw plenty of guys running down the court on the fast break. Because it's Amare that's OK? It's not like Amare was playing the entire game. He had plenty of rest and should have had no problem making it up and down the court a few times before getting tired. I am telling you that even when he wasn't tired, he didn't have the wheels to get up and down the court.

My point is that Amare's problems are much deeper I think. IMO, after watching him play in person, there is not only cause to be concerned but his level of health is not where he or the Suns say it is. Either that or Amare has some severe confidence issues.

 

[Errntknght]

I'm starting to wonder how much real information the docs, trainers, coaches and Amare have about the typical recovery process for basketball players from MFS. Even if the are well informed, maybe what Amare is going through is not that atypical but the expectations, because the actual damaged area was so small, is that he should be having a 'best case' recovery.

I do wish D'Antoni was not so hyper about winning every regular season game - yeah, a high seed helps a little in the playoffs but its more important to have the team peaking at the right point. Heck, it is probably an advantage to have Amare rounding into form as the season winds down - as long as Nash hasn't been worn to a frazzle getting there.

 

[pokerface]

I'm starting to wonder how much real information the docs, trainers, coaches and Amare have about the typical recovery process for basketball players from MFS. Even if the are well informed, maybe what Amare is going through is not that atypical but the expectations, because the actual damaged area was so small, is that he should be having a 'best case' recovery.

What I want to know (which no one has ever discussed) is that even though his lesion was small how much area did the microfracture cover? In other words were less holes drilled in his knee because less area needed to be treated or is microfracture surgery a somewhat standard operation with a standard amount of holes being drilled.

Did Amare have "microfracture lite" done or was it standard microfracture? If it was standard microfracture then it may not make much difference whether the lesion was small or not. The small lesion might only make a difference in his long term prognosis (durability and comfort) perhaps but not with rehabilitation.

 

[Lean Mass]

What I want to know (which no one has ever discussed) is that even though his lesion was small how much area did the microfracture cover? In other words were less holes drilled in his knee because less area needed to be treated or is microfracture surgery a somewhat standard operation with a standard amount of holes being drilled.

Did Amare have "microfracture lite" done or was it standard microfracture? If it was standard microfracture then it may not make much difference whether the lesion was small or not. The small lesion might only make a difference in his long term prognosis (durability and comfort) perhaps but not with rehabilitation.

I think people have stopped saying that Amare will recover better because his microfracture was smaller. Recovering from microfracture is tough, whether you're 23 years old or 35. Amare said in the SLAM article about him that his microfracture is a lot like Jason Kidd's, and that it was pretty different from Penny's. Otherwise, microfracture is microfracture, no matter how you slice it (no pun intended...)

I don't know why Suns fans have to create threads like "Amare = headcase" though. Can you really blame him for not knowing when "pain" in his knee is just "stiffness" or when it's potentially serious? Before he had the surgery, he had pain in his knee, but he didn't think it required season-ending surgery. Then, even though Suns doctors were telling him that his knee was fine and that he could come back last March, it actually turns out that he needed 6 more months to recover enough to get where he is now, which for tonight's opener is only enough to allow him to play 15-20 minutes. He still has pain in his knees that requires him to sit out a few practices here and there, which depending on what mood D'Antoni is in, is either perfectly OK or enough to make him say things like, "We're prepared to go on without him if we have to." If that wouldn't cause you to have mental reservations, than what causes you to have doubt is different than most people (at least than me).

At most, we can all agree that Amare is the only one who can know what he is feeling. But even then, how can Amare know how to interpret what he is feeling. He once said he wants to be the best player ever to play in the NBA. Now he's the second man off the bench? We've heard that it's all okay because Amare's knees are structurally sound, but we've also heard that he'll probably need to have microfracture surgery again some years down the road. And that doesn't even cover the pain in his other knee. How should he deal with that? He works hard, through tons of pain during rehibilitation, and yet these roadblocks still keep popping up, and people call him a headcase when he gets frustrated or doesn't deal with it optimally.

Man, being a Suns fan must be really hard.

 

[CardNots]

I think what you can say about Amare, he is a good business manager. One who successfully parlayed his hard work into a multimillionare.

From a owners stand, there are certain risks you take. Some work out and some don't.

My only disappointment on Amare is, I might not ever see how good he could have become.