Sunday Night Colts @SF

[Ronin]

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[ajcardfan]

I mock the 49ers.

The Lance trade is going to be one of the all time worst trades in NFL draft history. IMHO.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The downfall of the Rams will be even more bittersweet, they have hurt so many of our players in the past.

Uh that’s just sweet. There’s no bitter to their downfall.

 

[Cardiac]

I for one enjoy the front row seats to the downfall of 9ers and hawks (hopefully). I know hawks used to be in the basement for a lot of their history, but they have been good for a long recent time now. I know 9ers sucked too.

It's time for us to run the division, with probably the Rams for a time.

Yeah it should be a great several years for the Cards. 49ers look to be done for another 4 to 10 years and if Wilson leaves the Seahawks they will suck for quite awhile as well. They would have to get lucky and get Rodgers or get another RW type pick at QB. Even then their D sucks and Oline as usual is below average.

I agree the Rams will the team to beat in this division. Stafford is very good but we don't know yet if he is truly elite.

Cards should be very good for quite some time. Good times for Cards fans and lord knows we have paid our dues.

 

[Russ Smith]

I mock the 49ers.

The Lance trade is going to be one of the all time worst trades in NFL draft history. IMHO.

From memory it's 2 firsts and this years first exchanged? So they sent their first this year to Miami for theirs, they got Lance Miami got their pick and then 2 future firsts. Their thinking at the time was of course we're good so those firsts won't be high picks, now that they're NOT good, it's seeming like those firsts might actually be high picks and they will really regret not having them.

If you read the stuff Shanahan said it's pretty clear he wanted Mac Jones and someone else wanted Lance.

 

[Germz249]

Yeah it should be a great several years for the Cards. 49ers look to be done for another 4 to 10 years and if Wilson leaves the Seahawks they will suck for quite awhile as well. They would have to get lucky and get Rodgers or get another RW type pick at QB. Even then their D sucks and Oline as usual is below average.

I agree the Rams will the team to beat in this division. Stafford is very good but we don't know yet if he is truly elite.

Cards should be very good for quite some time. Good times for Cards fans and lord knows we have paid our dues.

Another question is how more years does Stafford have left also?

 

[Cardiac]

Another question is how more years does Stafford have left also?

I would guess at least 5 more just because his arm strength is that good.

 

[Russ Smith]

That's some hyperbole. I bet a few people thought the Cardinals were going to be bad for a decade during the Wilks year.

I think Lance can be good. He needs a lot of work, but he is a specimen.

I also think they have enough defensive pieces that if Lance is a bust they can just get a decent QB and still be pretty good.

The main issue is they have had so many injuries the last 2 years it becomes a question of which players they can rely on to stay healthy going forward.

If they know they have Mitchell, Mostert, Deebo, Aiyuk and Kittle on offense with a decent OL they just need a pretty good QB if the defense is good. But it's not clear they have enough guys on defense who can stay healthy either.

Collinsworth was making the point last night the offense they ran against us with Lance and the offense they ran last night were completely different and it wasn't just the heavy rain, it was they didn't trust Lance to throw the ball.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I also think they have enough defensive pieces that if Lance is a bust they can just get a decent QB and still be pretty good.

The main issue is they have had so many injuries the last 2 years it becomes a question of which players they can rely on to stay healthy going forward.

If they know they have Mitchell, Mostert, Deebo, Aiyuk and Kittle on offense with a decent OL they just need a pretty good QB if the defense is good. But it's not clear they have enough guys on defense who can stay healthy either.

Collinsworth was making the point last night the offense they ran against us with Lance and the offense they ran last night were completely different and it wasn't just the heavy rain, it was they didn't trust Lance to throw the ball.

I'm still kind of shocked that the Niners try to get cute all of the time. I see so many good running plays, and then it seems like Shanahan goes all pass happy and they don't really have the players to make it work.

Even with Kittle, that offense really only has two good receiving options right now. That's below average.
I think 2019 was the fluke, not the other 4 years. And that Buckner trade is looking worse with time than it did when they made it.

Armstead isn't as good as Buckner and Kinlaw hasn't come close to replacing how good Buckner was/is. Overall, their DL is pretty good, but Buckner is probably the 2nd best IDL in the league behind Donald, and depth doesn't always replace difference makers.

I know the excuse for the Niners over and over is injuries, but even when they are in games, I see lots of bad decisions from Shanahan. I think they should run the ball until the other team stops it.

 

[Shane]

I also think they have enough defensive pieces that if Lance is a bust they can just get a decent QB and still be pretty good.

The main issue is they have had so many injuries the last 2 years it becomes a question of which players they can rely on to stay healthy going forward.

If they know they have Mitchell, Mostert, Deebo, Aiyuk and Kittle on offense with a decent OL they just need a pretty good QB if the defense is good. But it's not clear they have enough guys on defense who can stay healthy either.

Collinsworth was making the point last night the offense they ran against us with Lance and the offense they ran last night were completely different and it wasn't just the heavy rain, it was they didn't trust Lance to throw the ball.

I don't recall anyone EVER making excuses for us when our teams would literally get obliterated by injury or the resulting records because of them? Niners should not be allowed to use it as an excuse either.

 

[Russ Smith]

I don't recall anyone EVER making excuses for us when our teams would literally get obliterated by injury or the resulting records because of them? Niners should not be allowed to use it as an excuse either.

I always consider injuries. Theirs last year were insane.

In early November last year so about 2 weeks from now, they had Jimmy G, Kittle, Deebo, their top 3 RB's(Mostert, Coleman and Wilson), 3 starting OL's, on defense Bosa, Solomon Thomas, Dee Ford, Richard Sherman, Tartt, and Al Shaair. At that time they had 22 players out and 2 more were just being added so 24 players were out injured at one time on an NFL roster that's pretty crazy.

But like I said at a certain point if you keep relying on guys who keep getting hurt that becomes your fault.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I'm still kind of shocked that the Niners try to get cute all of the time. I see so many good running plays, and then it seems like Shanahan goes all pass happy and they don't really have the players to make it work.

Even with Kittle, that offense really only has two good receiving options right now. That's below average.
I think 2019 was the fluke, not the other 4 years. And that Buckner trade is looking worse with time than it did when they made it.

Armstead isn't as good as Buckner and Kinlaw hasn't come close to replacing how good Buckner was/is. Overall, their DL is pretty good, but Buckner is probably the 2nd best IDL in the league behind Donald, and depth doesn't always replace difference makers.

I know the excuse for the Niners over and over is injuries, but even when they are in games, I see lots of bad decisions from Shanahan. I think they should run the ball until the other team stops it.

I don’t think you can fluke into the super bowl. Even most one-year wonders end up as one -year wonders due to unfortunate injuries or trades, etc. ignoring the injuries for the other four years is silly. Is it equally silly to rely on so many injury-prone players? Sure. But what are you supposed to do not draft bosa? Get rid of kitties for a lesser TE?

Also, the lynch selecting lance over shanahan’s desired jones kinda muffles the cries of “it’s shanahan’s fault the team has so many injured players” to an extent.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I don't recall anyone EVER making excuses for us when our teams would literally get obliterated by injury or the resulting records because of them? Niners should not be allowed to use it as an excuse either.

What? Then you don’t read this board. Our fans literally fall over themselves to complain about injuries. And yeah, we’ve had our share over the years. And it absolutely impacted our coaches abilities to maximize their coaching chops.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I always consider injuries. Theirs last year were insane.

In early November last year so about 2 weeks from now, they had Jimmy G, Kittle, Deebo, their top 3 RB's(Mostert, Coleman and Wilson), 3 starting OL's, on defense Bosa, Solomon Thomas, Dee Ford, Richard Sherman, Tartt, and Al Shaair. At that time they had 22 players out and 2 more were just being added so 24 players were out injured at one time on an NFL roster that's pretty crazy.

But like I said at a certain point if you keep relying on guys who keep getting hurt that becomes your fault.

Cmon Russ, shanahan should’ve still won 10 games at least last year. A good coach coaches around having no roster.

 

[football karma]

The predraft reports were that one faction liked Lance and another liked someone else.

I think it was Shanahan who wanted the safer pick, which I believe was Jones.

He didn't win.

Mac Jones would make sense in that he is a Matt Ryan clone in many respects --

it also might explain his hesitation to play Lance -- a subtle power play with the front office. Also his reckless game plan that involved lots of QB power runs while your 1st string QB is in street clothes.

 

[Shane]

What? Then you don’t read this board. Our fans literally fall over themselves to complain about injuries. And yeah, we’ve had our share over the years. And it absolutely impacted our coaches abilities to maximize their coaching chops.

I’m not talking about the board. Fan base will complain all day long. I’m referring to the “experts”

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I’m not talking about the board. Fan base will complain all day long. I’m referring to the “experts”

Who cares what the experts say? Does that impact the game? No, injuries do. And they effect teams differently based on who is injured and for what length of time. Just bc experts don’t cry over cardinals injuries doesn’t detract from how injuries impact shanahan’s ability to win. Not attacking you Shane, just a weird comment to me in the conversation.

 

[wit3card]

Mac Jones would make sense in that he is a Matt Ryan clone in many respects --

it also might explain his hesitation to play Lance -- a subtle power play with the front office. Also his reckless game plan that involved lots of QB power runs while your 1st string QB is in street clothes.

No from the throws we saw from lance, nothing speaks for #1 round Top QB. They were career back-up skeltonish throws.

The Power Runs were the best bet to win against us and they came quite close.

But overall, they have many injury prone players, you can't build a team with top players that are always injured. Like someone said, the highest good in the NFL is availability. You can have all the talent of the world, if you can't play on sunday, you can't help winning. Kevin Kolb showed us what he was able to do (win in NE against a prime Tom Brady) but he couldn't stay healthy and in that season he finally understood Whisenpunts complicated playbook, but he got injured to the point that he called it a career.

So from my point of view, the Shanahan SB run was the fluke with that team and not the norm, they have always many injured players and it seems like it is always the same players. And drafting Lance in the first was a questionable move, many called it a bad move. And Bill Belicheck was happy at that moment and seems like the winner of that draft getting Jones who seems to work in the NFL. And I'm quite sure BB will build his D and next year NE is back in the playoffs if they don't somehow get in this year.

But SF now has not much to draft and if Lance doesn't work out, this might be a difficult decade for the 49ers.

Shanahan isn't a great HC either, he doesn't learn from his mistakes and wants to throw and doesn't take the points when needed. Something KK seems to have learned in the last 2 seasons and it shows in the win column, but we might see how it unfolds, for now it seems, KK might get another 2-3 years. For Shanahan it might get hot after this season.

 

[daves]

Good article by Tim Kawakami in The Athletic: "A moment of humility for Kyle Shanahan and the 49ers, and time for some major changes." Some excerpts:

Shanahan also didn’t have any answers, which probably frustrated him as much as anybody who might want him fired these days. He’s supposed to have answers. He’s always been quite convinced that he had almost every answer necessary and if he didn’t have it, his handpicked general manager, John Lynch, surely could provide the solution.

But almost every single thing Shanahan and Lynch have tried so far this season has not worked out, all leading to the series of critical mistakes, pratfalls and befuddling play that filled Sunday’s 30-18 loss to the very mediocre Indianapolis Colts in a heavy rain at Levi’s Stadium.

Shanahan doesn’t exactly know why the 49ers can’t move the ball, can’t defend a deep pass without committing a penalty and can’t finish games. He expected so much more. Now he has a ton of hard work to do to try to fix just about everything. And this losing streak has put his entire tenure under the microscope, exposed to the heat and with intensifying scrutiny.

Sunday’s game was yet another reminder that the 49ers have some structural things wrong and that Shanahan and Lynch have made some pretty large incorrect assumptions about their talent level.

The most mystifying thing of all is Shanahan’s scattered offensive play-calling this season. He has started several games now calling a perfect set of plays just like he did Sunday, when he had Garoppolo bootlegging off play action and firing to open receivers and Elijah Mitchell blasting through tons of open holes created by all the movement, leading to a touchdown. And then, as in the Seattle game when the 49ers got off to a blazing start, everything just stopped. Shanahan didn’t put Garoppolo or the backfield into any exotic movement, and everything shut down.

The next time Lance starts, it can’t just be a one-dimensional run-the-QB offense. Maybe Lance hasn’t shown Shanahan that he can run all of the playbook, but the 16 QB runs in the Arizona game were just an amazingly reckless strategy by Shanahan.

The Arizona play-calling is just another bizarre example; what is Shanahan trying to accomplish this season? He has to sort this out, and it has to be displayed on the field. Because what we’ve seen this season is a jumble, which is shocking coming from somebody who figured out how to carve out a lot of yards even with Nick Mullens at QB in past years.

Shanahan has to get second-year receiver Brandon Aiyuk (one catch for 6 yards Sunday) and rookie cornerbacks Deommodore Lenoir and Ambry Thomas (both inactive) into productive roles instead of burning so many plays with Mohamed Sanu or Trent Sherfield at receiver and the host of veteran penalty-takers the 49ers are playing at cornerback now.

This is a middling team that is playing even worse than middling football; even if a few things improve quickly, the 49ers seem destined for more struggles. But there’s no sense of direction right now. They have no foundation. Everything was based on what they did in 2019, and now that seems like a thousand years ago.

They’re not good enough to play for the status quo. They overestimated some of their players. Some got hurt, predictably. And they haven’t coached the rest of them very well. And Shanahan knows that every bit of this is his responsibility. He has the long-term contract. He’s the decision-maker. He made the trade to acquire Lance, and he’s the one who has held him back this season.

I think Shanahan is ready to move past 2019, finally. We’ll see. And if Shanahan won’t play Lance when he’s healthy and can’t get Aiyuk and the others into bigger roles, maybe the 49ers will have to find a coach who can. I think it will be Shanahan doing these things, and I think on Sunday night, we got the first true sign that he realizes he has to.

...dave

 

[Russ Smith]

FYI on DeForest Buckner and the move to draft Kinlaw, Donte Whitner said on tv he's very concerned about Kinlaw he's "been replaced, he might already be a bust." There's apparently concern about his knee. I was never all that high on him but this offseason they were raving about him and said when he got back he made an immediate impact, but he's hurt again and you get the impression they're not happy with him at all.

 

[Dback Jon]

FYI on DeForest Buckner and the move to draft Kinlaw, Donte Whitner said on tv he's very concerned about Kinlaw he's "been replaced, he might already be a bust." There's apparently concern about his knee. I was never all that high on him but this offseason they were raving about him and said when he got back he made an immediate impact, but he's hurt again and you get the impression they're not happy with him at all.

So potentially two first round busts from the 49er's 2020 class

 

[GatorAZ]

FYI on DeForest Buckner and the move to draft Kinlaw, Donte Whitner said on tv he's very concerned about Kinlaw he's "been replaced, he might already be a bust." There's apparently concern about his knee. I was never all that high on him but this offseason they were raving about him and said when he got back he made an immediate impact, but he's hurt again and you get the impression they're not happy with him at all.

Glad the days of the Niner’s front-7 giving me nightmares are over.

 

[Arz101]

9ers need WRs, QB, CBs and DL. they lack draft capital. Also Jimmy at best is only going to fetch a conditional 2nd with that contract.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Good article by Tim Kawakami in The Athletic: "A moment of humility for Kyle Shanahan and the 49ers, and time for some major changes." Some excerpts:

...dave

So much of this.

This is a much better way of saying what I've trying to say @Russ Smith and @Ouchie-Z-Clown

When I watch Niners games, you just see so many instances of horrible coaching. Last night the Niners came out and looked great. And Shanahan doesn't keep it up.

They are a bad football team, that could at least be around or above .500 with good coaching.

 

[SunsTzu]

Good article by Tim Kawakami in The Athletic: "A moment of humility for Kyle Shanahan and the 49ers, and time for some major changes." Some excerpts:

...dave

That Lance pick would look really bad if they end up getting rid of Shanahan. It's one thing drafting a raw QB with the expectation of developing him, it's another to expect a new staff to have the same commitment instead of taking the first opportunity to get their guy.