Sunday night final 53 thoughts

[Cardiac]

Was he not the interim coordinator for the Philly Eagles last year? When the defense steeply fell off a cliff once he took the reins?

Yes he was but not running his system. That Philly team was falling apart and in no way is that a fair assessment of what Bowles may or may not be able to do.

They fired the D coordinator who was initially their Oline coach. The Dline coach who loved the Wide 9 splits for the DE's either quit or was fired around the same time.

 

[MrYeahBut]

Irritable Bowles Syndrome..

Maybe signing Sigmoid Colón as an edge rusher would help the defense??

 

[kerouac9]

Yes he was but not running his system. That Philly team was falling apart and in no way is that a fair assessment of what Bowles may or may not be able to do.

They fired the D coordinator who was initially their Oline coach. The Dline coach who loved the Wide 9 splits for the DE's either quit or was fired around the same time.

So his terrible secondary wasn't running his coverage system? Who was calling the defensive plays if not the defensive coordinator?

I'm not calling for Bowles' head, but I have a healthy skepticism that he'll be able to succeed, because he's rarely been a part of a successful defense, and he has almost no history of successful leadership of a unit.

So no one is allowed to be evaluated on their past failures, only their successes, of which they are each wholly and completely responsible?

Sounds like our drafting philosophy.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Sounds like our drafting philosophy.

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[Mulli]

So his terrible secondary wasn't running his coverage system? Who was calling the defensive plays if not the defensive coordinator?

I'm not calling for Bowles' head, but I have a healthy skepticism that he'll be able to succeed, because he's rarely been a part of a successful defense, and he has almost no history of successful leadership of a unit.

So no one is allowed to be evaluated on their past failures, only their successes, of which they are each wholly and completely responsible?

Sounds like our drafting philosophy.

Yep. They all get a "fresh start." Like they have never played football before. Sounds about right.

 

[Cardiac]

Well, Bowles has a history of getting talented defenses to produce far below the level of their ability.

Not sure of Bowles history of getting talented D's to produce far below the level of their ability. Cbus's post below highlights why he and I wonder how you came to this conclusion.

You must be a big Morehouse College or Grambling State fan because other than those 2 colleges and the last 1/2 season in Philly, Bowles has never been a coordinator. Even as a postion coach, you can't put a defense's performance on him if he wasn't the one calling the shots.

I agree, a wait and see approach is needed.

Was he not the interim coordinator for the Philly Eagles last year? When the defense steeply fell off a cliff once he took the reins?

So this is your one example of him taking talent and making them play at a lower level. My response below explains that it may not be a very good example of his abilities as a DC. Not at all his D scheme. The DC was fired because he was delivering outstanding results? The Dline coach who brought in the wide 9 scheme that WAS NOT working also gone. Point is that D and entire was dysfunctional, so much so that Reid gets canned after 14? yrs.

Yes he was but not running his system. That Philly team was falling apart and in no way is that a fair assessment of what Bowles may or may not be able to do.

They fired the D coordinator who was initially their Oline coach. The Dline coach who loved the Wide 9 splits for the DE's either quit or was fired around the same time.

So his terrible secondary wasn't running his coverage system? Who was calling the defensive plays if not the defensive coordinator?

I would think that the DC has overall say so in all the schemes run. So does a 3-4 D have the exact same DB schemes as a 4-3? Pretty sure the answer is no based on what we saw from Horton.

I'm not calling for Bowles' head, but I have a healthy skepticism that he'll be able to succeed, because he's rarely been a part of a successful defense, and he has almost no history of successful leadership of a unit.

I'm not sure if you have done the research of this is hyperbole.

So no one is allowed to be evaluated on their past failures, only their successes, of which they are each wholly and completely responsible?

Sounds like our drafting philosophy.

Cute and clever but a jump to a conclusion. You still haven't produced said constant failure as a coach evidence. What past failures?

Bowles has been named interim HC and DC in two different Organizations now so he must have garnered some respect and success in this league. I'm not a Bowles enthusiast or detractor at this point, I truly haven't read that much on him or followed any of the teams that he has coached on. This is why when someone as well read as yourself makes a comment I'm very interested to see why such comment was made.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

So his terrible secondary wasn't running his coverage system? Who was calling the defensive plays if not the defensive coordinator?

I'm not calling for Bowles' head, but I have a healthy skepticism that he'll be able to succeed, because he's rarely been a part of a successful defense, and he has almost no history of successful leadership of a unit.

So no one is allowed to be evaluated on their past failures, only their successes, of which they are each wholly and completely responsible?

Sounds like our drafting philosophy.

However, you seem to be focussing only on the negative as Bowles has been a part of many more successful staffs (upper half of the league) than unsuccessful staffs. He's been in the league since 2000 and here the ranking in yards and points allowed each year:
Team/ year/ Points allowed rank/ yardage allowed rank
Cle 2000 13 10
Cle 2001 15 22
Cle 2002 10 21
Cle 2003 12 15
Cle 2004 24 15
Dall 2005 12 10
Dall 2006 20 13
Dall 2007 13 9
Mia 2008 9 15
Mia 2009 25 22
Mia 2010 14 6
Mia 2011 6 15
Phi 2012 29 15

I'm not throwing out the 2012 year in Philly but that team was a train wreck all year. But, even including that team, his team's/staff's numbers have overall been pretty good. Not great, but not the under-achieving staffs being implied. In fact, other than the train wreck year, the defenses he's been part have relatively consistent. I'm guessing we should expect about a top 13 defense, which I think is reasonable.

 

[kerouac9]

Cute and clever but a jump to a conclusion. You still haven't produced said constant failure as a coach evidence. What past failures?

Bowles has been named interim HC and DC in two different Organizations now so he must have garnered some respect and success in this league. I'm not a Bowles enthusiast or detractor at this point, I truly haven't read that much on him or followed any of the teams that he has coached on. This is why when someone as well read as yourself makes a comment I'm very interested to see why such comment was made.

What past successes? Hank Kuhlman was multiple times named interim head coach. Those guys tend to be "go along to get along" guys, not established leaders who have a point of view and place their stamp on a unit.

I'm sure that he's respected as a position coach, but what does that have to do with the price of tea in china? He's the defensive coordinator for an offensive-minded head coach. He's worked for guys that I've had a lot of respect for (Bill Parcells, Mike Nolan--whom we should have hired), but don't you think there's maybe a reason that no one's fingered him for a head job until right now?

Fun fact on Bowles leadership: Before Castillo was fired (scapegoated) as DC of the Eagles, that defense was giving up 20.83 points per game. Despite Vick giving up turnovers like wildfire.

After Bowles became defensive coordinator for a defense that many believed to be playoff-caliber, the defense gave up...

...30.9 PPG. Wow.

 

[kerouac9]

However, you seem to be focussing only on the negative as Bowles has been a part of many more successful staffs (upper half of the league) than unsuccessful staffs. He's been in the league since 2000 and here the ranking in yards and points allowed each year:
Team/ year/ Points allowed rank/ yardage allowed rank
Cle 2000 13 10
Cle 2001 15 22
Cle 2002 10 21
Cle 2003 12 15
Cle 2004 24 15
Dall 2005 12 10
Dall 2006 20 13
Dall 2007 13 9
Mia 2008 9 15
Mia 2009 25 22
Mia 2010 14 6
Mia 2011 6 15
Phi 2012 29 15

I'm not throwing out the 2012 year in Philly but that team was a train wreck all year. But, even including that team, his team's/staff's numbers have overall been pretty good. Not great, but not the under-achieving staffs being implied. In fact, other than the train wreck year, the defenses he's been part have relatively consistent. I'm guessing we should expect about a top 13 defense, which I think is reasonable.

So we handed the keys to a Ferrari (Top 5 defense) to a guy who has experience driving Toyotas. We should have just hired the good defensive coordinators that hired Bowles in the past.

 

[Cardiac]

What past successes? Hank Kuhlman was multiple times named interim head coach. Those guys tend to be "go along to get along" guys, not established leaders who have a point of view and place their stamp on a unit.

I'm sure that he's respected as a position coach, but what does that have to do with the price of tea in china? He's the defensive coordinator for an offensive-minded head coach. He's worked for guys that I've had a lot of respect for (Bill Parcells, Mike Nolan--whom we should have hired), but don't you think there's maybe a reason that no one's fingered him for a head job until right now?

Fun fact on Bowles leadership: Before Castillo was fired (scapegoated) as DC of the Eagles, that defense was giving up 20.83 points per game. Despite Vick giving up turnovers like wildfire.

After Bowles became defensive coordinator for a defense that many believed to be playoff-caliber, the defense gave up...

...30.9 PPG. Wow.

I mostly agree that Castillo was scapegoated but the D wasn't playing great.

Once again the 30.9 pts per game need some context. Not Bowles scheme and the team had become a train wreck at that point. Horton's D gave up 58 points to the Seahawks in 1 game as the wheels were coming off. Now of course he righted the ship immediately but it was HIS scheme they were running.

The price of Tea in China was the same when Horton was given a chance as DC after many years as a position coach.

I actually think you and I are on the same page as hopes and expectations of Bowles and that's (once again) why I asked for clarification on your initial comment that he has a history of not having his players achieving success even to or better than their talent.