Suns’ past missteps have added up

Covert Rain

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Pretty good article about some mistakes the team has made the last 5 years. Mike Tulumello really over exaggerates what it would take to get rid of Banks though. All in all a good article. The highlight of the article for me is the draft picks the Suns gave up. When the Suns traded away their draft these very boards were lit up with WTH are the Suns doing type threads. Back then we all suspected those moves would end up being mistakes. They were. Especially considering how some of those players turned out.

Suns’ past missteps have added up

Mike Tulumello, Tribune

It could have been, would have been, should have been. The Suns fell short on the court this season in part because they fell short off of it.

Here are some moves that didn’t work out for the Suns the past five years, each of which hurt their chances to bring home a title this season.

• The 2002 draft. The Suns made one of the best picks in franchise history with Amaré Stoudemire at No. 9 (several players picked ahead of him are no longer even in the league).

But at No. 22, they blew it, picking Casey Jacobsen over Tayshaun Prince, even though Prince had an eye-opening workout for them.

Jacobsen no longer is in the league, while Prince probably is the league’s best all-round player who isn’t an All-Star, the glue for the title-contending Detroit Pistons.

The draft-day trade in 2004 with the Bulls. The Suns could have had Luol Deng or Andre Iguodala for nothing more than a rookie-scale contract.

Instead, they traded the No. 7 pick to Chicago. Compounding this …

• ...They signed Quentin Richardson to a $43 million contract in July, 2004. They did so even though it complicated the situation in trying to sign Joe Johnson to a longterm contract.

• They came up just short of signing Johnson in October, 2004.

The Suns were offering Johnson about $45 million; Johnson wanted about $50 million.

This is the sort of bargaining gap that Jerry Colangelo would have closed in hours, maybe even minutes.

But there was a new player in such negotiations: Robert Sarver, who’d just bought the team for $401 million.

Colangelo and Sarver would run the team jointly for three years. Colangelo wanted to do a deal, but he didn’t want to make any major moves without his successor’s approval.

Sarver had just agreed to contracts guaranteed at about $100 million for Steve Nash and Richardson. He was reluctant to add another.

Johnson then seemed to grow bitter as the ‘04-05 season went along. A subsequent attempt to sign Johnson in the summer of ’05 deteriorated, and Johnson was dealt to Atlanta in a sign-and-trade deal for Boris Diaw and draft picks.

“It should have been done,” Colangelo would say much later of the first attempt to sign Johnson.

And another Suns official would talk dreamily of a Suns’ group that included Stoudemire and Shawn Marion up front, Johnson and Raja Bell on the wings and Nash at the point.

You have to wonder if not signing Johnson — the first time — didn’t cost the Suns multiple NBA titles.

• Sarver’s decision to let Bryan Colangelo get away to the Toronto Raptors in February 2006.

Years from now, this may seem an extremely odd decision.

Colangelo’s decisions weren’t always on the mark (see some of the aforementioned goofs).

But he’d just been voted the NBA’s top executive the previous year, was on his way to finishing second during the year he left the Suns, then won the award again just this month for turning around the Raptors immediately.

In letting him leave — Colangelo said he had expected to stay but never was given a specific offer — Sarver seemed eager to put his own stamp on the Suns.

The Suns’ moves haven’t worked out so well since Colangelo left.

The trade of a first-round pick in the 2006 draft to the Portland Trail Blazers.

The Trail Blazers used the pick to draft Sergio Rodriguez, who turned out to be maybe the league’s best rookie point guard.

A backup point guard, of course, is a crying need for the Suns.

• The signing of Marcus Banks to a $22 million contract in July 2006.

The Suns viewed Banks as the guy to give Nash much needed relief. Instead, coach Mike D’Antoni soon lost confidence in him. Leandro Barbosa — more effective as an off guard — had to fill this role.

And Nash looked tired at the end of the Suns’ heartbreaking playoff loss to the Spurs. Now the Suns might have to give away two first-round draft picks just to get somebody to take Banks off their hands. The Suns also signed Diaw to a five-year, $45 million contract that kicks in next season. Whether this, too, turns out to be a mistake figures to go a long way in determining whether the Suns can finally win that elusive title.
 

Hugh D'Man

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What ??? No mention of 2 yr deals to BGrant, PBurke, and the PolishPeaShooter? Or McCarty, Rose, JuJones, Marks, Shirley...our growing list of non contributing, non tradable, non developing pine polishers....

Is it any wonder ?
 

mathbzh

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You have to wonder if not signing Johnson — the first time — didn’t cost the Suns multiple NBA titles.
How fast people change their mind :)
Last year everyone was in love with Diaw and saw Phoenix as the winner in the trade.
This year with Diaw struggling and JJ becoming a dominant player people reconsider. Next season if (hopefuly) we can draft Horford people will call this move a genius trade. And if finally Horford don't have the career he is suppose d to we will once again cry about it.
 

scoutmasterdave

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What ??? No mention of 2 yr deals to BGrant, PBurke, and the PolishPeaShooter? Or McCarty, Rose, JuJones, Marks, Shirley...our growing list of non contributing, non tradable, non developing pine polishers....

Is it any wonder ?
None of those guys made much, if any, more than the minimum. Every team has minimum salary guys that do nothing more than cheerlead.
 

slinslin

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Funny how this article points out Bryan Colangelo's bad moves and then blames them for not keeping Colangelo.

Sergio Rodriguez is nothing to cry about, he is a 2nd or 3rd string PG in Portland.
 

Mulli

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slinslin;1368628[B said:
]Funny how this article points out Bryan Colangelo's bad moves and then blames them for not keeping Colangelo[/B].

Sergio Rodriguez is nothing to cry about, he is a 2nd or 3rd string PG in Portland.
Nice catch.
 

tobiazz

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It may have been even worse if they extended JJ because he probably still would have wanted to "be the man" and then they would have to find a way to move his fairly large contract. They may not have been better last year with JJ since they would have had zero post presence without Boris. This year JJ would have been huge though.

The "save money on a draft pick and then spend more on Banks" and "trade a draft pick before we know if our player will drop to seven" moves were horrible.
 

jbeecham

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Funny how this article points out Bryan Colangelo's bad moves and then blames them for not keeping Colangelo.

Sergio Rodriguez is nothing to cry about, he is a 2nd or 3rd string PG in Portland.

Out of all of the PG's in the draft last year, Sergio was the most Nash-like. He wasn't given many chances in Portland, but he had a couple of excellent games off the bench during the season when he did get minutes. He's a good, but streaky outside shooter and an excellent passer & ball handler. I'd take him on the Suns in a heartbeat to learn from Nash.
 

Divide Et Impera

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The point is not p/t. I'd rather have Rodriguez on our bench "not plaing" for $1M/yr over Banks on our bench "not playing" for $5M/yr. This is putting aside the immense potential that SR has and how seamlessly he would fit into our offense....
 

slinslin

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Banks makes 3M$ not 1M$.

Mike D'Antoni is just too dumb to use him, we could really use him against teams with great PGs. Banks can defend well, guys like Baron Davis, Deron Williams etc..

Bring Banks in early in the game, not against backups, bring him in while he can guard one of those guys and bring Nash back against the bench for example.

D'Antoni would have a lot of options to use him, he just doesn't. Just like he wasted Jalen Rose, I am sure he could have helped us against San Antonio if we ever played him. He can take players off the dribble and shoot off the dribble.
 

Gaddabout

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Bring Banks in early in the game, not against backups, bring him in while he can guard one of those guys and bring Nash back against the bench for example.

This would be an interesting experiment if the Suns had a two-guard like JJ who could play point guard on offense. It would be an interesting experiment if Diaw could play at the same time, but actually finish at the hoop on occasion, thus making the Suns as effective in the paint as the many open jump shots Diaw creates.

The Suns trading the pick because they thought Igoudala would be gone is a classic draft day goof. I can't think of anyone here who has thought the Suns really recovered from that one. Other people can talk about how they Suns could have had Deng, but the Suns didn't like him. A lot of us here were in love with Sergio Rodriguez, but D'Antoni didn't want another small guard on the roster. Well, D'Antoni went to a three-guard rotation and nearly drove them into the ground, so I think he would've been pretty happy (in hindsight) to have another point guard giving the Suns 10 minutes a game who could execute the pick-and-roll like Nash.

These mistakes ... I think they hit on the major undercurrent that D'Antoni doesn't like young, inexperienced players. Or just more than one project at a time. He doesn't have a lot of patience for guys who don't already have a strong basketball IQ -- at least as an offensive player. The Suns don't have an offensive system, per se. They have an offensive agenda that requires amoeba-like changes, and the only way it works is if everyone on the floor can shoot and they know where they're supposed to be just based on everyone else's spacing. It makes it difficult to scheme or prepare for the Suns, but it also makes it impossible to for D'Antoni to make adjustments by scheme or to hide a player with offensive deficiencies. It's exactly why Stephen Hunter -- who did make the Suns a better defensive team -- was shown the door.

If D'Antoni wants to be a championship coach, he's going to have to adapt somewhat and learn how to flex his system for other types of talent. Either that, or he better find a 7-foot center who can run and shoot in a hurry. I think most of us can figure out the most reasonable choice of those two options.
 

Divide Et Impera

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I thought Banks was signed to a 5/25 contract....

$3M or $5M. I'd still rather have SR for $1M and I won't pretend to forget that I thought Banks was an excellent signing....
 

Hugh D'Man

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None of those guys made much, if any, more than the minimum. Every team has minimum salary guys that do nothing more than cheerlead.

yeah yer right....a couple of them come to mind... Milsap, Maxiell, Quinten Ross, Mikey Moore...

often its those guys that can make a difference. We basically have had a black hole from #8 on down.
 

jbeecham

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I thought Banks was signed to a 5/25 contract....

$3M or $5M. I'd still rather have SR for $1M and I won't pretend to forget that I thought Banks was an excellent signing....

I think Banks's contact was 5yrs $23 million so an average of 4.6 million per season.
 

mathbzh

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The point is not p/t. I'd rather have Rodriguez on our bench "not plaing" for $1M/yr over Banks on our bench "not playing" for $5M/yr. This is putting aside the immense potential that SR has and how seamlessly he would fit into our offense....

I can be on our bench "not playing " for $500000/yr if you want:D
 

DSF_27

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It may have been even worse if they extended JJ because he probably still would have wanted to "be the man" and then they would have to find a way to move his fairly large contract. They may not have been better last year with JJ since they would have had zero post presence without Boris. This year JJ would have been huge though.

The "save money on a draft pick and then spend more on Banks" and "trade a draft pick before we know if our player will drop to seven" moves were horrible.

If they had extended JJ back in 04 and he still wanted to be "the man" they would have one of the valuable assets in the NBA. Consider that you would be trading an All-Star with a cheap contract (the 6/50 that he originally wanted). Think the Suns could find a taker?


Sarver and D'Antoni have screwed the pooch time and time again.
 

dreamcastrocks

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This would be an interesting experiment if the Suns had a two-guard like JJ who could play point guard on offense. It would be an interesting experiment if Diaw could play at the same time, but actually finish at the hoop on occasion, thus making the Suns as effective in the paint as the many open jump shots Diaw creates.

The Suns have used Barbosa/Diaw in that role all year long. Barbosa really isn't a PG, and Diaw isn't really a C.
 

Gaddabout

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The Suns have used Barbosa/Diaw in that role all year long. Barbosa really isn't a PG, and Diaw isn't really a C.

If Diaw would finish his shots 30 percent of the time, he'd be a big enough threat to really create offense for others. It would lessen the role of PG with Nash out and allow a defensive specialist like Banks to see the floor more. That was the point.

Barbosa is just more offense on the floor, and not offense that comes in the flow of the team game.
 

The_Matrix

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If they had extended JJ back in 04 and he still wanted to be "the man" they would have one of the valuable assets in the NBA. Consider that you would be trading an All-Star with a cheap contract (the 6/50 that he originally wanted). Think the Suns could find a taker?
.

Oh maaaaaaan. Sure, without Diaw we'd have been in trouble last year. But image this year with JJ?

Stoudemire 6'10" dunker
Marion 6'8" defender
Johnson 6'8" clutch slasher/shooter
Bell 6'6" lockdown anti-kobe/manu and shooter
Nash the MVP

With bench Thomas, Diaw, Jones, Barbosa.

That's the best starting 5 in the league. Every starter is tall and mobile. Our three point shooting would break every record in the history of the NBA. With Nash out Johnson and Barbosa share backup PG. Now we go nine deep and relieve the pressure on Nash. Remeber when JJ broke out against Bowen Game 4 2005 with a face mask on? Now Bowen must choose between guarding Johnson and Nash. STAT's in foul trouble? Bell can't drive? Diaw sucks? Marion/Barbosa exposed? Nash been Bowened? Give the ball to Johnson and watch him torch Ginobili.

Of couse, this hypothetical disregards 1. Salary cap issues 2. Johnson's unhappiness 3. Alpha dog battles
 
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dreamcastrocks

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Diaw + the picks is still a better deal for PHX than JJ. I'd rather go this route, and hope that we can get the Atlanta pick, as well as a reenergized Diaw.
 

sharkman

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Oh maaaaaaan. Sure, without Diaw we'd have been in trouble last year. But image this year with JJ?

Stoudemire 6'10" dunker
Marion 6'8" defender
Johnson 6'8" clutch slasher/shooter
Bell 6'6" lockdown anti-kobe/manu and shooter
Nash the MVP
With bench Thomas, Diaw, Jones, Barbosa.


JJ was traded for Diaw...yet you have them together.
 
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