Suns at Cavaliers 1-19-2011

[Brianellsworth]

Good thing the cavs are so terrible or this could have easily been a closer game

 

[Mainstreet]

Grant Hill with 27 points and 12 rebounds. He is the man.

 

[Proteus]

Yay!!!! Suns win 108-96. Good job Suns.

 

[Mainstreet]

Can't forget Nash with 15 points and 15 assists. I can only imagine what Nash could do if he looked for his shot.

 

[Mainstreet]

If one counts Frye as a center (the Suns do) along with Gortat and Lopez (0 rebounds) the Suns got 43 points and 16 rebounds from the center position.

 

[Covert Rain]

Lopez played pretty well last year. You've got to put some time into your investment in a big man. Lopez is the classic late developer-type.

What do you call all last year and half a season this year? He is not getting it done. He ranks almost dead last in defense and rebounding among all starting NBA centers.

In total efficiency rating he ranks 45th best in the NBA which means even bench centers are better in that regard.

I think it's pretty safe to say Lopez is never going to be anything other then a role player and should not be starting.

How long are you willing to wait for this "late developer-type" to finally develop? I think he has already had his fair share of time.

Exactly. It's time to admit the Lopez project is a failure. Even if you could get 10 to 12 points a night out of this guy that doesn't help the Suns in the two areas we need most. Defense and Rebounding.

Gortat had 16 pts, 12 rebounds and 3 blocks. That most important thing was the last 2 stats. We need a center who can do that. If that same center puts in 10 to 12 points on top of that...it's gravy.

What we don't need is a center who puts in 10 to 12 points but doesn't rebound or play defense. That is EXACTLY what the Suns don't need.

How can Robin not get a single rebound, even if he had played only 5mins, dude is pathetic.

+1. One of the smallest big men in the NBA.

 

[Mainstreet]

What we don't need is a center who puts in 10 to 12 points but doesn't rebound or play defense. That is EXACTLY what the Suns don't need.

I think Gortat is the better player right now but I don't believe the Suns should give up on a 22 year old center. Even Gortat is a late developer at 26. Who knows what Lopez will look like at 26.

Also look at Gortat's early stats:

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/marcin_gortat/career_stats.html


Now compare them to Lopez' stats and note the age difference. Based on stats, Lopez projects out to be the better player at age 26.

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/robin_lopez/career_stats.html

 

[BC867]

I think Gortat is the better player right now but I don't believe the Suns should give up on a 22 year old center. Even Gortat is a late developer at 26. Who knows what Lopez will look like at 26.

You are right. Marcin Gortat is the better player . . . despite having started only 6 games in his 3+ year NBA career. Robin Lopez has started 62 NBA games in his 3 years.

So the numbers show that Gortat has started one game with the Suns (six in all) and Lopez has started sixty-two.

The question isn't if Lopez will be better than Gortat when he reaches his age.

It is if Gortat will be even better than Lopez (as you said, he is the better player right now) when he reaches Robin's plateau of 62 games started.

I think we all know the answer to that. In this case, Robin's previous starting experience is producing less compared to Gortat's previously coming off the bench. Age is really not a predictive factor, given those circumstances.

 

[jibikao]

Is it me of Lopez looks very slow? Lopez has slow reaction and Gortat is the tallest player I've seen that just doesn't want to dunk. Suns' future in center doesn't look too bright.

I would start Gortat over Lopez but hey, it's all about mental game with this team now. When they were trying to change rotation, it really messed up player's confidence level. Letting Lopez start is probably the best thing they can do right now even though he plays like 10mins.

 

[Mainstreet]

You are right. Marcin Gortat is the better player . . . despite having started only 6 games in his 3+ year NBA career. Robin Lopez has started 62 NBA games in his 3 years.

So the numbers show that Gortat has started one game with the Suns (six in all) and Lopez has started sixty-two.

The question isn't if Lopez will be better than Gortat when he reaches his age.

It is if Gortat will be even better than Lopez (as you said, he is the better player right now) when he reaches Robin's plateau of 62 games started.

I think we all know the answer to that. In this case, Robin's previous starting experience is producing less compared to Gortat's previously coming off the bench. Age is really not a predictive factor, given those circumstances.

My point is that the Suns shouldn't give up on a 22 year center (Lopez) especially with the addition of Gortat. Now that the Suns have Gortat they have the luxury of finding Lopez' ceiling without the pressure. When have the Suns had the luxury of having two true centers on their roster to rotate. I would think you of all people would want to see the Suns keep both players and add even more size to the line-up. It doesn't have to be one or the other. If your argument is that Gortat should start, I wouldn't argue the point. However, if you are saying the Suns shouldn't keep Lopez, I disagree (unless he can be used in a trade for a quality PF).

 

[BC867]

I would start Gortat over Lopez but hey, it's all about mental game with this team now. When they were trying to change rotation, it really messed up player's confidence level. Letting Lopez start is probably the best thing they can do right now even though he plays like 10 mins.

That is a good point. As they say, it doesn't matter who starts, but who finishes. And Gortat (tonight) and Frye have been the finishers -- not Lopez at all.

But . . . there is another side to it. Would it be better for the Suns to have Gortat at C alongside Nash right from the start of the game, for the sake of chemistry (and for Gortat to have more confidence in the "roll" part of his pick&roll). I think so. The sooner, the better.

I said in a previous post that Lopez is a flake. Sixty-two starts have shown us what he is made of. Let him step aside. (I can't help but realize that his twin is going through the same letdown with the Nets this year.)

 

[jibikao]

That is a good point. As they say, it doesn't matter who starts, but who finishes. And Gortat (tonight) and Frye have been the finishers -- not Lopez at all.

But . . . there is another side to it. Would it be better for the Suns to have Gortat at C alongside Nash right from the start of the game, for the sake of chemistry (and for Gortat to have more confidence in the "roll" part of his pick&roll). I think so. The sooner, the better.

I said in a previous post that Lopez is a flake. Sixty-two starts have shown us what he is made of. Let him step aside. (I can't help but realize that his twin is going through the same letdown with the Nets this year.)

I haven't seen enough of Suns' game to judge why Lopez was doing good last year. What was Lopez good at? Judging from the clip and stats, he doesn't seem to be very productive. He just seems very slow to me.

Oh, I am also twins...so I support him now! lol

 

[Mainstreet]

Is it me of Lopez looks very slow? Lopez has slow reaction and Gortat is the tallest player I've seen that just doesn't want to dunk. Suns' future in center doesn't look too bright.

IMO, it has never been brighter. The Suns not only have Gortat but Lopez and Frye as well.

I would start Gortat over Lopez but hey, it's all about mental game with this team now. When they were trying to change rotation, it really messed up player's confidence level. Letting Lopez start is probably the best thing they can do right now even though he plays like 10mins.

I agree. IMO, this is why Lopez is starting right now. However, Gentry is not afraid to make changes. He is also smart enough not to rock the ship when things are going well. I think you hit the nail on the head with the mental (chemistry) issue.

 

[Yuma]

I was trying to remember when the Suns last had three centers on their roster all in their mid to early twenties, who actually play significant minutes. Not sure I can remember when that last happened.

 

[Covert Rain]

My point is that the Suns shouldn't give up on a 22 year center (Lopez) especially with the addition of Gortat. Now that the Suns have Gortat they have the luxury of finding Lopez' ceiling without the pressure. When have the Suns had the luxury of having two true centers on their roster to rotate. I would think you of all people would want to see the Suns keep both players and add even more size to the line-up. It doesn't have to be one or the other. If your argument is that Gortat should start, I wouldn't argue the point. However, if you are saying the Suns shouldn't keep Lopez, I disagree (unless he can be used in a trade for a quality PF).

Just for giggles....I look up at least 8 centers #'s. In almost every case, in 60+ starts I could see significant indications that those centers would be good at something when they came into the league. When I look at Robin, I see much more inconstancy. I see bigger gaps of absolutely no productivity. I see overwhelming evidence that he is horrible at the very things we drafted him for.

I get not giving up on such a young player if that said player showed some special quality. However, we have not seen it in Robin. He should be showing something by now if history is any indication. Maybe your right. Maybe we shouldn't give up on Robin.

However, I would argue we shouldn't give up on him being a career backup because he will never be a star Center in this league IMO.

 

[Bert]

Just for giggles. I look up at least 8 centers #'s. In almost every case, in 60+ starts I could see significant indications that those centers would be good at something when they came into the league. When I look at Robin, I see much more inconstancy. I see bigger gaps of absolutely no productivity. I see overwhelming evidence that he is horrible at the very things we drafted him for.

I get not giving up on such a young player if that said player showed some special quality. However, we have not seen it in Robin. He should be showing something by now if history is any indication. Maybe your right. Maybe we shouldn't give up on Robin.

However, I would argue we shouldn't give up on him being a career backup because he will never be a star Center in this league IMO.

Let me ask you this and this is an honest question.

Can ANY center thrive in this system?

 

[sunsfan88]

After watching Gortat outplay Lopez yet again..........anybody else wondering if Lopez has photos of Gentry naked with someone not his wife????

Or Gentry just has a fetish for 'fros.

Gortat is clearly better Gentry doesnt wanna go back on his promise about "same lineup for 10 games or whatever"

Gortat just needs to work on not getting stripped when he rolls and gets the basket. He did a way better job tonight but still sometimes you can see him not keep the ball over his head. It also looks like he worked on his FTs.

But if he can work on his jump-shooting, he'd be dangerous.

Btw why cant Lopez ever learn anything from these guys. He practiced against Amare for a few seasons and didnt seem to learn a thing. Now he's going up against Gortat and still doesnt seem to get any better rebounding or defense wise.

 

[sunsfan88]

I'm all for Gortat starting but maybe one reason Gentry doesnt start him is because he wants one good rebounder starting and another one to go along with the bench. Frye is the best rebounder in the starting lineup and Gortat the best off the bench.

If Gortat started, who the hell would be our best rebounder off the bench? Dudley?!

But it also begs the question why Lopez continues to start if he isnt a good rebounder which is what he is supposed to be. He's isnt a good defender and offensively he's mediocre. I think Lopez starts cause he is, unfortunately, our best option at C.

But I wanna see Siler play.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Just for giggles. I look up at least 8 centers #'s. In almost every case, in 60+ starts I could see significant indications that those centers would be good at something when they came into the league. When I look at Robin, I see much more inconstancy. I see bigger gaps of absolutely no productivity. I see overwhelming evidence that he is horrible at the very things we drafted him for.

I get not giving up on such a young player if that said player showed some special quality. However, we have not seen it in Robin. He should be showing something by now if history is any indication. Maybe your right. Maybe we shouldn't give up on Robin.

However, I would argue we shouldn't give up on him being a career backup because he will never be a star Center in this league IMO.

Well, it's stupid to call it a reason but IMO, the best reason not to give up on him is because we NEED him to be good. If he and Dragic can't become something more than deep bench guys, we're in a world of hurt. Who am I kidding, we're in a world of hurt regardless but, if they excel, at least there's some small hope for the future.

He showed flashes last year that he could actually be something. Maybe he is still struggling athletically and strength-wise from his back problems. He was never a great rebounder but he wasn't this bad last year and the team as a whole boarded much better when he was a key part of the rotation. If it cost us anything of real value I'd give up on him in a heartbeat but as it is, we can afford to keep trying to bring him along.

Steve

 

[jagu]

Pretty okay game, if only we knew how to stop Daniel Gibson and Manny Harris. Those two guys kept the game close with their relentless chucking. Nash is the Suns. Every friggin time he steps off the court, the lead vanishes. Dragic just isn't cutting it this season. When he brings it up to the court for half court offense, he either passes it off immediately or holds onto the ball and runs the shot clock down and drives for pretty much nothing.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Well, it's stupid to call it a reason but IMO, the best reason not to give up on him is because we NEED him to be good. If he and Dragic can't become something more than deep bench guys, we're in a world of hurt. Who am I kidding, we're in a world of hurt regardless but, if they excel, at least there's some small hope for the future.

He showed flashes last year that he could actually be something. Maybe he is still struggling athletically and strength-wise from his back problems. He was never a great rebounder but he wasn't this bad last year and the team as a whole boarded much better when he was a key part of the rotation. If it cost us anything of real value I'd give up on him in a heartbeat but as it is, we can afford to keep trying to bring him along.

Steve

Yes. This is true. Just a couple of things. Dan Majerle was on the radio this morning and said that Gortat has still not learned the offensive plays. Yes, Gortat is better than Lopez at this point. Gortat is getting more minutes that Lopez at this point. But is also perfectly within a coach's prerogative to refuse to start a player until he learns the offense.

I honestly don't care if Gortat or Lopez starts or not. Whoever is playing best at the moment is fine with me. But I also want the Suns to continue working to develop both players. This is the season to do it.

 

[BC867]

I honestly don't care if Gortat or Lopez starts or not. Whoever is playing best at the moment is fine with me.

If they were on a bowling team, fine. But with the chemistry required (especially in an up-and-back team sport such as basketball), it has to be a factor.

Lack of chemistry increases Nash's turnovers and he is still as good as any Point Guard in the game on offense. Now think about what it's done to Barbosa and Dragic. And to the other three players on the court when any on of three Centers might be alongside them for significant minutes.

 

[Magnus]

If they were on a bowling team, fine. But with the chemistry required (especially in an up-and-back team sport such as basketball), it has to be a factor.

Lack of chemistry increases Nash's turnovers and he is still as good as any Point Guard in the game on offense. Now think about what it's done to Barbosa and Dragic. And to the other three players on the court when any on of three Centers might be alongside them for significant minutes.

This. Chemistry comes with consistency, and only by playing minutes together will the guys be comfortable on the court. It's tough to be in this position in mid-season, but the Suns will have to work it out. Atleast they're not the worst team in the league, as it seemed a couple of weeks back.