Suns at Celtics 1-15-16

[JCSunsfan]

I agree the Suns are long overdue for the first pick in the NBA draft. However, the Suns did draft Armon Gilliam with the two pick in the 1987 draft.

After San Antonio out-tanked them for David Robinson.

 

[Mainstreet]

After San Antonio out-tanked them for David Robinson.

Jerry Colangelo tried to put on a good face at the 1987 NBA Draft Lottery but there was no doubt about which player should be drafted #1.

Also the Suns lost the coin flip in the 1969 draft for Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (formerly known as Lew Alcindor)

No wonder Suns fans have a thing about drafting big men.

http://www.nba.com/spurs/look-back-spurs-win-1987-draft-lottery-and-select-david-robinson-no-1-pick

 

[Hoop Head]

Yes. I have heard of the Peter principle. NO Jeff does not have a timid personality. You keep saying this, but it is not true. He is tanking. This is what you do when you tank.

Phil Jackson would not be winning with this team.

Please explain what Jeff is doing differently now that the team is "tanking" based on what he was doing last year or this year when the team got off to a good start. It was obvious to almost every fan that this team wasn't going to make the playoffs before Bledsoe got hurt so it wasn't his injury that caused the team to start losing at a large clip. Jeff has lost the locker room for the 2nd year in a row. It's also become a running joke here and amongst other fans that if a young guy has too good of a game he'll sit the majority of the next. It doesn't matter if it's a back to back or after 3 days off. He's done that to the young guys too often.

Just because his dad was a coach doesn't mean that he'll be a good coach, he hasn't proven to be a good coach yet. I wouldn't be surprised if his dad being a coach helped him develop as a player but coaching isn't hereditary. If having a dad as a coach was a qualification to be an NBA coach then why haven't there been a bunch of quality 2nd generation NBA coaches?

 

[JCSunsfan]

Please explain what Jeff is doing differently now that the team is "tanking" based on what he was doing last year or this year when the team got off to a good start. It was obvious to almost every fan that this team wasn't going to make the playoffs before Bledsoe got hurt so it wasn't his injury that caused the team to start losing at a large clip. Jeff has lost the locker room for the 2nd year in a row. It's also become a running joke here and amongst other fans that if a young guy has too good of a game he'll sit the majority of the next. It doesn't matter if it's a back to back or after 3 days off. He's done that to the young guys too often.

Just because his dad was a coach doesn't mean that he'll be a good coach, he hasn't proven to be a good coach yet. I wouldn't be surprised if his dad being a coach helped him develop as a player but coaching isn't hereditary. If having a dad as a coach was a qualification to be an NBA coach then why haven't there been a bunch of quality 2nd generation NBA coaches?

Where did I say "just because"? That was one of many things. I am sorry. You know more than Horny.

 

[sunsfan88]

Please explain what Jeff is doing differently now that the team is "tanking" based on what he was doing last year or this year when the team got off to a good start. It was obvious to almost every fan that this team wasn't going to make the playoffs before Bledsoe got hurt so it wasn't his injury that caused the team to start losing at a large clip. Jeff has lost the locker room for the 2nd year in a row. It's also become a running joke here and amongst other fans that if a young guy has too good of a game he'll sit the majority of the next. It doesn't matter if it's a back to back or after 3 days off. He's done that to the young guys too often.

Just because his dad was a coach doesn't mean that he'll be a good coach, he hasn't proven to be a good coach yet. I wouldn't be surprised if his dad being a coach helped him develop as a player but coaching isn't hereditary. If having a dad as a coach was a qualification to be an NBA coach then why haven't there been a bunch of quality 2nd generation NBA coaches?

Well said. Tanking doesn't just mean losing games. Tanking means losing games BY playing your young players a ton of minutes like 30-40 mins a game. Who cares if Booker is in foul trouble, play him til he fouls out. Its not like we're playing game 7 of the NBA finals and we're trying to save Booker to make sure he's able to play the 4th QTR or something. Same with Warren, Len and Goodwin.

 

[Chaplin]

Well said. Tanking doesn't just mean losing games. Tanking means losing games BY playing your young players a ton of minutes like 30-40 mins a game. Who cares if Booker is in foul trouble, play him til he fouls out. Its not like we're playing game 7 of the NBA finals and we're trying to save Booker to make sure he's able to play the 4th QTR or something. Same with Warren, Len and Goodwin.

You can't play rookies (or a lot of young players) 30-40 minutes a night. They simply can't do it and it could have lasting effects on their health. It's not that difficult to understand.

 

[BC867]

You can't play rookies (or a lot of young players) 30-40 minutes a night. They simply can't do it and it could have lasting effects on their health. It's not that difficult to understand.

I agree with that. But play them consistently. And play combinations consistently for the sake of chemistry. Especially in sports such as basketball, hockey and soccer where players are constantly moving back and forth on offense and defense.

A coach whose philosophy is to react to the other team, rather than set the tone, is doomed to mediocrity. Match-up is catch-up and catch-up doesn't take you toward the top.

And a coach whose philosophy is to have 12 potential starters or finishers to keep his players happy is not one to build a winner. As we have seen.

 

[slinslin]

You can't play rookies (or a lot of young players) 30-40 minutes a night. They simply can't do it and it could have lasting effects on their health. It's not that difficult to understand.

wrong

CJ McCollum plays 35mpg
Andrew Wiggins plays 35mpg
Caldwell-Pope 38mpg
Jordan Clarkson 32mpg
Jalil Okafor 31mpg
Otto Porter 32mpg
Rodney Hood 30mpg
Victor Oladipo 30mpg

 

[Chaplin]

wrong

CJ McCollum plays 35mpg
Andrew Wiggins plays 35mpg
Caldwell-Pope 38mpg
Jordan Clarkson 32mpg
Jalil Okafor 31mpg
Otto Porter 32mpg
Rodney Hood 30mpg
Victor Oladipo 30mpg

And all of those guys are 100% healthy and haven't missed games? I know for a fact McCollum has missed games this year.

STOP looking only at stats and try to actually watch some games for a change. It's always the same with you.

 

[BC867]

And all of those guys are 100% healthy and haven't missed games? I know for a fact McCollum has missed games this year.

So that cuts Slin's list from 8 examples to 7 regarding your response that they simply can't do it.

My take is that you can give minutes to a young player unless and until you see that it is showing detrimental results.

With, as I've posted before, consistent minutes. But, then, all season long Jeff has not given consistent minutes to anyone who is not what he was -- a tweener Guard. That is coaching with blinders on.

 

[sunsfan88]

And all of those guys are 100% healthy and haven't missed games? I know for a fact McCollum has missed games this year.

STOP looking only at stats and try to actually watch some games for a change. It's always the same with you.

And there's been rookies and sophomores who play less minutes that still missed games with injuries...what's your point?

That's a short list. We can go down and look at NBA history and see how many rookies and sophomores who played heavy minutes their rookie season ended with a successful career. I can tell you right now that the best player on the planet LeBron James played a crap ton of minutes his rookie and sophomore years and that's without even looking.

TJ Warren played 3 mins tonight. Sure he doesn't have to play 40 mins a night but 3 flipping minutes? That's what you call a JOKE of minute distribution.

 

[Catlover]

And there's been rookies and sophomores who play less minutes that still missed games with injuries...what's your point?

That's a short list. We can go down and look at NBA history and see how many rookies and sophomores who played heavy minutes their rookie season ended with a successful career. I can tell you right now that the best player on the planet LeBron James played a crap ton of minutes his rookie and sophomore years and that's without even looking.

TJ Warren played 3 mins tonight. Sure he doesn't have to play 40 mins a night but 3 flipping minutes? That's what you call a JOKE of minute distribution.

It had nothing to do with minutes distribution. Jeff yanked him for lack of energy. And apparently it wasn't his first time. They'd stressed playing with greater intensity just the day before so it's no surprise he was instantly benched when he failed to hustle.

Too bad we don't have some diehard NC State fans here, it would be interesting to hear if this has been an issue for him in the past. I know it happens often with big-time scorers, they come into the pros expecting to coast on defense as they have at the lower levels. Hopefully this benching will send the right message.

 

[Phrazbit]

I have a hard time blaming Warren when he spent the first 2 months of the year outplaying Tucker by an enormous margin only to see less and less playing time. At some point the motivation dies.

 

[Catlover]

I have a hard time blaming Warren when he spent the first 2 months of the year outplaying Tucker by an enormous margin only to see less and less playing time. At some point the motivation dies.

I haven't focused on TJ very much so I don't know how much of a problem consistent effort has been for him. I do know that there were times when he'd come in and play great one night and then disappear the next but I had just assumed that was the result of a more focused defense but what if it wasn't? If you look through the box scores you'll see games even at the start of the season where Warren puts up mostly zeroes in every category.

 

[slinslin]

McCollum missed 2 games, one of those was due to a book-keeping error that the Clippers protested.

The other I am not sure, when you miss a single game it is unlikely due to injury.

 

[95pro]

I have a hard time blaming Warren when he spent the first 2 months of the year outplaying Tucker by an enormous margin only to see less and less playing time. At some point the motivation dies.

Thats a great point. He did outplay just about all our forwards.

 

[sunsfan88]

It had nothing to do with minutes distribution. Jeff yanked him for lack of energy. And apparently it wasn't his first time. They'd stressed playing with greater intensity just the day before so it's no surprise he was instantly benched when he failed to hustle.

Too bad we don't have some diehard NC State fans here, it would be interesting to hear if this has been an issue for him in the past. I know it happens often with big-time scorers, they come into the pros expecting to coast on defense as they have at the lower levels. Hopefully this benching will send the right message.

The entire Suns roster lacks effort and hustle. So why not bench the entire roster rather than just Warren?

It's some serious nitpicking when you want to bench one player while continuing to play other players who have the same issue.

 

[Catlover]

The entire Suns roster lacks effort and hustle. So why not bench the entire roster rather than just Warren?

It's some serious nitpicking when you want to bench one player while continuing to play other players who have the same issue.

You don't really have a problem with the coaching tactic. You appear to want to call the man a liar (or an idiot), so just do it. But no coach in the world would put rules in place one day and not take action when someone violated them the next day. And it's the furthest thing from nitpicking.

Jeff said he failed to hustle when he subbed in and he yanked him for that reason. So that you don't keep talking in unsupported generalizations, go check out the 3 minutes that got him benched and make your case. I haven't done that BTW. For all I know, you're right and Jeff is lying or blind or whatever. But regardless, the principle is sound. You control your players with court time and money. Jeff has no control over the money so court time is his only carrot and his only stick.