Suns at Kings Game Thread

[mojorizen7]

Barkley also had a short temper......
Dennis Rodman wasn't exactly all together in the head either but he never stopped his teams from winning it all.
You've got to be willing to take risks to get what you want.
Too many "nice guy model citizens on this team."

 

[mojorizen7]

What is this team lacking to truly contend in the post-season?
Defense & rebounding.

 

[mojorizen7]

I'll get off this topic for now. Wrong sub-forum.

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

I see a massive difference between taking a risk and injecting yourself with cancer.

He has yet to show self improvement, thats closer to a sure thing than a risk.

 

[mojorizen7]

Exactly what are you afraid of in terms of Artest in a suns uni?
Technical fouls? Ejections? Flagrant fouls? Fines? Suspensions?

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

all of the above, along with slowing down the ball, selfish play, and locker room issues.

Do you find it irrational that those are legitimate concerns to many people?

 

[green machine]

Exactly what are you afraid of in terms of Artest in a suns uni?
Technical fouls? Ejections? Flagrant fouls? Fines? Suspensions?

Yes.

 

[jbeecham]

Exactly what are you afraid of in terms of Artest in a suns uni?
Technical fouls? Ejections? Flagrant fouls? Fines? Suspensions?

Storming the crowd, throwing punches and getting half our team suspended for 40+ games.....that might be the worst case scenario.

 

[mojorizen7]

The SUNS aren't going to intimidate anybody(especially the SPURS) with our current front line combo of Stat,Marion,Skinner,& Marks.
IMO the pieces are nearly in place here but much like in '93-'95 the SUNS keep adding forwards that can score instead of guys that can defend and/or rebound. Kurt Thomas was a rare exception to that trend & where's he now?
It's very frustrating to me fellow SUNS fan's.

 

[mojorizen7]

Storming the crowd, throwing punches and getting half our team suspended for 40+ games.....that might be the worst case scenario.

You'll never see that happen again IMO. Especially from Artest/S.Jackson.

 

[mojorizen7]

Yes.

Good one ,i thought that would be an answer. So therefore putting a guy on our team that obviously gives us presence & a dimension that we're lacking in who's however that's prone to these negatives is not worth giving ourselves a title?
Again, i give you Dennis Rodman.

 

[mojorizen7]

all of the above, along with slowing down the ball, selfish play, and locker room issues.

Do you find it irrational that those are legitimate concerns to many people?

The ball is going to slow down when it counts regardless. Thats playoff basketball.
Why would Artest need to be selfish on this team? Why would he want to be? Was he ball-hogging tonight?
I would hope so.
The Kings are a bad team that's without it's best playmaker.

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

The ball slows down in his hands was my point.

Why would he be selfish on this team? Because he is a selfish player who prefers to create his own shot that incorporate his teammates. His playstyle demands the ball, which makes him the antithesis of our style of play. We dont even know if it's a "need" or a "want" issue with his ballhogging, but you've seem to conclude he would calm down and play selflessly just by putting on purple and orange, and we are all pansy goodie-goodies for being apprehensive.

Whats with all the why questions? Why did he charge the stands and assualt fans? Why did he continue slugging people on the court after the peak of the brawl settled down? Why did he beat his wife this summer? Why is he still throwing temper tantrums on the floor tonight after a seven game suspension for anger management? Why do you let his potential positives outweigh his redundant negatives?

You make it sound like adding him is a lock for the playoffs. When has he shown he can play playoff basketball? It looks like youre making the argument of, "he is a ballhog on the kings because he needs to be, therefore he wont be a ballhog here since he wont have to be."


And you didnt even answer my question...

 

[green machine]

Good one ,i thought that would be an answer. So therefore putting a guy on our team that obviously gives us presence & a dimension that we're lacking in who's however that's prone to these negatives is not worth giving ourselves a title?
Again, i give you Dennis Rodman.

I think the team can win a title right now. And besides, what has Artest done that makes you think he can be a key player on a championship calibre team? Wasn't Rodman on some championship teams before he went all wacko? Artest has not been.

Besides, Rodman was a role player. He knew his role was to play D, grab rebounds, and agitate. Artest is more then a role player, he's a star that would command the ball. That is something that the current team does not need.

 

[mojorizen7]

I think the team can win a title right now. And besides, what has Artest done that makes you think he can be a key player on a championship calibre team? Wasn't Rodman on some championship teams before he went all wacko? Artest has not been.

Besides, Rodman was a role player. He knew his role was to play D, grab rebounds, and agitate. Artest is more then a role player, he's a star that would command the ball. That is something that the current team does not need.

Hey, your opinion that we can win a title is fair. Personally, i don't.
Rodman was on some championship teams before & after he started wearing dresses i think.
You think that there's no room on this SUNS team for another star? Maybe not but i don't consider Artest a "star."
There are a few guys on this team that would like to command the ball but when you've got Nash running the show it ain't gonna happen.
As far as what has Artest done to show me he can help here well he can defend the perimeter & the post better than anybody on this team today including Shawn. He can rebound, & yes (D'Antoni)...he can shoot and run if you ask him too.
I admit that it'd be a risk Green, but after getting out muscled & "outtoughed" by the team from Texas with all the trophies year after year
it's time to take a different approach IMO.
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/dennis_rodman/index.html
A key member of 5 NBA championship teams and yes.....he was a pain in the a$$ too.

 

[mojorizen7]

The ball slows down in his hands was my point.

Why would he be selfish on this team? Because he is a selfish player who prefers to create his own shot that incorporate his teammates. His playstyle demands the ball, which makes him the antithesis of our style of play. We dont even know if it's a "need" or a "want" issue with his ballhogging, but you've seem to conclude he would calm down and play selflessly just by putting on purple and orange, and we are all pansy goodie-goodies for being apprehensive.

Whats with all the why questions? Why did he charge the stands and assualt fans? Why did he continue slugging people on the court after the peak of the brawl settled down? Why did he beat his wife this summer? Why is he still throwing temper tantrums on the floor tonight after a seven game suspension for anger management? Why do you let his potential positives outweigh his redundant negatives?

You make it sound like adding him is a lock for the playoffs. When has he shown he can play playoff basketball? It looks like youre making the argument of, "he is a ballhog on the kings because he needs to be, therefore he wont be a ballhog here since he wont have to be."


And you didnt even answer my question...

I think i'm done listening to you. Again...from where i'm sitting your ego won't allow you to objectively debate anything. Where's that ignore button?
R.I.Fundamental.

 

[mojorizen7]

Do you find it irrational that those are legitimate concerns to many people?

No it's not irrational at all.

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

Wow, I thought I was pretty mild this time too.

You can't ask a bunch of "why" questions then accuse me of not being objective.

You can't accuse the suns of not having a chance for the title because all they have are classy players, then accuse people of having egos that wont allow objective debate.

I really dont see how you can put Rodman and Artest in the same category either, but i let that go.

I've stated multiple times on this board that if Artest wasnt so unstable I would be one of the first ones on the Artest bandwagon. Removing those issues from your argument removes credibility from the discussion

Thanks for ending the conversation with public ignore comments. Very mature.

 

[mojorizen7]

Wow, I thought I was pretty mild this time too.

You can't ask a bunch of "why" questions then accuse me of not being objective.

You can't accuse the suns of not having a chance for the title because all they have are classy players, then accuse people of having egos that wont allow objective debate.

I really dont see how you can put Rodman and Artest in the same category either, but i let that go.

I've stated multiple times on this board that if Artest wasnt so unstable I would be one of the first ones on the Artest bandwagon. Removing those issues from your argument removes credibility from the discussion

Thanks for ending the conversation with public ignore comments. Very mature.

then accuse people of having egos that wont allow objective debate.

Those people with ego's would be you.
We're done.

 

[CaptainInsano]

I wouldn't do artest because right now I see us giving it one last shot with marion this year.

During the offseason marion obviously opts, possibly even if we get a title. What I am thinking is maybe we can talk Elton Brand into opting and then sign him for a contract.

He has about the same amount of rebounds except the big deal is brand has a 3.9/6.3 offensive rebound/defensive rebound number while marions is 2.6/7.5 which I think would be very useful in helping our rebounding woes.

And brand works on the inside like a BEAST and never bombs threes.

And brand is a slightly better scorer.

AND the way brand scores is a lot more dependable in crunchtime and playoffs.

The only thing I worry about is would there be enough touches of the bball to distribute to both brand and amare.

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

Even if marion leaves I dont think we would have the cap space for brand. Would have to work a sign and trade and I dont see that happening.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

One thing I liked seeing last night was when Marion missed his free throws, it was Amare giving him encouragement. I still hope they can eventually get along.

 

[Rab]

One thing I liked seeing last night was when Marion missed his free throws, it was Amare giving him encouragement. I still hope they can eventually get along.

I was wondering if I was the only one who saw that. I don't think I've really ever seen Amare show that much compassion for Shawn since he's been here.

Wouldn't it be nice if the Suns could get just one clean rebound in crunch time? LOL. They drive me nuts. Marion gets the rebound, and 3 other Suns are right around him, yet Artest gets in there and somehow comes out with the ball, they score and cut it to a 4 point game with 1:00 left. This seems to happen a lot of our players in crunch time.

 

[krispydude]

my dvr cut off with 45 sec left in the game
i usually record the next show but i forgot. they need to come up with something that will keep recording as long as the show is still on. not sure if this would even be possible, but it would be nice.

oh btw. i was falling alseep while watching the 3rd and 4th qtr last night and i thought i remember nash starting the 4th qtr?? did he? and he played 39 min last night also...

 

[jandaman]

I wouldn't do artest because right now I see us giving it one last shot with marion this year.

During the offseason marion obviously opts, possibly even if we get a title. What I am thinking is maybe we can talk Elton Brand into opting and then sign him for a contract.

He has about the same amount of rebounds except the big deal is brand has a 3.9/6.3 offensive rebound/defensive rebound number while marions is 2.6/7.5 which I think would be very useful in helping our rebounding woes.

And brand works on the inside like a BEAST and never bombs threes.

And brand is a slightly better scorer.

AND the way brand scores is a lot more dependable in crunchtime and playoffs.

The only thing I worry about is would there be enough touches of the bball to distribute to both brand and amare.

Brand will be very good to any teams he joins.
I think he and Stoudemire will be a good combo, but both will need space to operate their games.

What the Suns need is more like a legit big man who does the dirty work rather than be another offensive weapon. Again, Camby would be perfect.. too perfect.

And Brand will attract 15+ Million a year contract, I dont think the Suns can win the bidding war.

Players I like the Suns to go after.

-Jeff Foster, is athletic enough, will run, will hustle, legit 6'11 guy with very high energy and very good rebounding skills. He'd be good to pair with Stoudemire when Marion or Diaw is on the bench. Will also not take jump shots, which is bad for D'Antoni, but he is a garbage man in that he will fight for offensive rebounds and put backs. Giving him 15 minutes a game will be enough since, he usually plays just over 20 mins for Indiana and grabs 8+ rebounds. Last night, he grabbed 12 rebounds in 16 minutes. In an open court with the Suns, he might grab close to 10 rebounds in 15-18 minutes.

Again its all about lineups on court if you want a player like Foster.

Starting line-up (First 10 minutes) (Stable line-up)
C: Stoudemire
PF: Marion
SF: Hill
SG: Bell
PG: Nash


2nd quarter line-up (First 6 minutes) (Energy boost line-up)
C: Foster
PF: Marion
SF: Diaw
SG: Barbosa
PG: Nash

3rd quarter line-up (first 6 minutes) (Rest Nash, Hill and Marion line-up)
C: Stoudemire
PF: Skinner
SF: Diaw
SG: Bell
PG: Barbosa

4th quarter line-up (first 4 minutes) (Energy Boost line-up)
C: Foster
PF: Marion
SF: Hill
SG: Barbosa
PG: Nash


4th quarter line-up (final 8 minutes) (Rested starter line-up)
C: Stoudemire
PF: Marion
SF: Hill
SG: Bell
PG: Nash