Suns at Rockets 3-21-15

[Cheesebeef]

Are you seriously comparing Knight and Len to Wade and Dragic, let alone Bosh?
And YES, even with all that adversity, they are better than our beloved team is. Let that sink in.

Are you brain dead? You're making excuses for the Heat because if their injuries while completely neglecting the injuries that we've had. It's not that difficult to realize what I was saying. Reality is that the Heat, even WITHOUT Bosh, are more talented then we are and in the East and yet they're STILL not much better then us. That's the point.

 

[Cheesebeef]

With all said and done, I see the Suns with a winning record living in the Western Conference and the Heat have a losing record living in the Eastern Conference. Also the Suns have the younger team. I like the Suns chances better long term. The Heat are in a win now mode. Yet the suns have the better record in rebuild mode. Let's compare the teams in a few years and see what you think.

In a few years, Dragic will be averaging 23 and 10 and be playing better then any PG ever has statistically according Stefan.

 

[devilalum]

Comparing the Suns and Heat is ridiculous. It really is apples and oranges. Right now Wade is playing like a top 10 player again. That is why they're having some success. That being said he's 33. No way he can sustain this level with all the injuries he's had. The Suns on the other hand are very young and have no where to go but up. I would bet money that Bledsoe, Len, Morii, Goodwin, Knight and Warren will all be even better next season.

 

[Cheesebeef]

good lord... I just looked at our schedule coming down the stretch. people are going to be able to throw the Heat/Suns record comparison in my face by the end of the season because we play freaking murderers row from herein.

that said, even with Bosh, that Heat team maxes out as a 4 seed at best in the nearby future and that future is going to be brief with Wade's age.

but hey, at least they'll have Dragic averaging the best PG of all time for the next three years at 23/10!

 

[devilalum]

good lord... I just looked at our schedule coming down the stretch. people are going to be able to throw the Heat/Suns record comparison in my face by the end of the season because we play freaking murderers row from herein.

that said, even with Bosh, that Heat team maxes out as a 4 seed at best in the nearby future and that future is going to be brief with Wade's age.

but hey, at least they'll have Dragic averaging the best PG of all time for the next three years at 23/10!

Comparing records of East and West teams is ludicrous.

Suns are 18-11 vs. the East.
Heat are 12-16 vs. the West.

If the Suns were in the East they would easily be the 3rd seed right now.

 

[Catlover]

Strictly speaking it's 6-4 / equivalent to a 55 win season, without bosh, as he didn't play in one win and one loss.


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60% rounds to a 49 win season.

 

[SirStefan32]

Are you brain dead? You're making excuses for the Heat because if their injuries while completely neglecting the injuries that we've had. It's not that difficult to realize what I was saying. Reality is that the Heat, even WITHOUT Bosh, are more talented then we are and in the East and yet they're STILL not much better then us. That's the point.

No, but thank you for resorting to personal attacks. Great way to know you have no argument left. Comparing Wade, Dragic, and Bosh injuries to those of Knight and Len is just silly. Knight and Len are nobodies, albeit somewhat promising ones. Bosh has 8 or 9 all-star appearances, and averages 20 points per game despite being a distant third option for a few years on a loaded Miami team. If I remember correctly, he's made some all-nba team a time or two as well. He is certainly a top-five Power Forward in the league today.
Wade has made the all-star game a dozen times, probably, and was on an all-nba first team at least once, and on the second and third a few times, I am sure. He also averages 25 point per game for his career.
Dragic, while not anywhere near that level is still better than anything the Suns have, and was MIP/All-NBA third team last year before the Suns took the ball away from him this year.

Knight and Len are two nobodies. To compare their impact to Dragic, and then Wade and Bosh is not even remotely based on reality. It's like saying "Sure, OKC lost Durant, but the Spurs lost Matt Bonner for a few games too!"

 

[Cheesebeef]

No, but thank you for resorting to personal attacks. Great way to know you have no argument left. Comparing Wade, Dragic, and Bosh injuries to those of Knight and Len is just silly. Knight and Len are nobodies, albeit somewhat promising ones. Bosh has 8 or 9 all-star appearances, and averages 20 points per game despite being a distant third option for a few years on a loaded Miami team. If I remember correctly, he's made some all-nba team a time or two as well. He is certainly a top-five Power Forward in the league today.
Wade has made the all-star game a dozen times, probably, and was on an all-nba first team at least once, and on the second and third a few times, I am sure. He also averages 25 point per game for his career.
Dragic, while not anywhere near that level is still better than anything the Suns have, and was MIP/All-NBA third team last year before the Suns took the ball away from him this year.

Knight and Len are two nobodies. To compare their impact to Dragic, and then Wade and Bosh is not even remotely based on reality.

Knight was talked about as an ALL-STAR this season, that's not a nobody. And Len is the only C on the entire team devoid of size. And Dragic and Wade have missed a game during this stretch.

meanwhile, again, even with a lot more talent and Wade and Dragic missing a game or two each, the Heat aren't much better then the Suns. That is truth right now.

just saying, you're making excuses for one team while completely ignoring that the Suns are MUCH LESS talented then the Heat AND have been dealing with injuries and STILL have played comparable ball. All that speaks of to me... is that Dragic's stats are nice, but his impact on a team's wins and losses don't seem to move the needle all that much... and never have. We were an ATROCIOUS team with him as the lead PG, we were a .500 team with him running the show when Bledsoe was injured last year and the Heat, despite playing in the East with a refreshed Wade and a stud big man in Whiteside are just an also ran.

but hey... he should start averaging 23/10 and start playing statsically speaking the best any PG ever has any day now, right Stefan?

 

[Griffin]

For those that like those plus/minus numbers, Tucker was +27 in this game. Not so coincidentally, Harden was -27.

 

[SirStefan32]

Knight was talked about as an ALL-STAR this season, that's not a nobody. And Len is the only C on the entire team devoid of size. And Dragic and Wade have missed a game during this stretch.

meanwhile, again, even with a lot more talent and Wade and Dragic missing a game or two each, the Heat aren't much better then the Suns. That is truth right now.

just saying, you're making excuses for one team while completely ignoring that the Suns are MUCH LESS talented then the Heat AND have been dealing with injuries and STILL have played comparable ball. All that speaks of to me... is that Dragic's stats are nice, but his impact on a team's wins and losses don't seem to move the needle all that much... and never have. We were an ATROCIOUS team with him as the lead PG, we were a .500 team with him running the show when Bledsoe was injured last year and the Heat, despite playing in the East with a refreshed Wade and a stud big man in Whiteside are just an also ran.

but hey... he should start averaging 23/10 and start playing statsically speaking the best any PG ever has any day now, right Stefan?

You can try to justify it any way you want, but Len and Knight missing a couple of games is not remotely similar to Bosh being out of the season, and Wade and Dragic missing a game or two here and there. "Well, we are a crappy team" is not a valid argument.

Don't know what Dragic will average, but I'll bet you anything he will have more of an impact on Miami than your boy Bledsoe will have on our team.

 

[Phrazbit]

You can try to justify it any way you want, but Len and Knight missing a couple of games is not remotely similar to Bosh being out of the season, and Wade and Dragic missing a game or two here and there. "Well, we are a crappy team" is not a valid argument.

Don't know what Dragic will average, but I'll bet you anything he will have more of an impact on Miami than your boy Bledsoe will have on our team.

He didn't last year.

And you're still ignoring the point. It does not matter if Len and Knight are not as good as Wade and Bosh, all that matters is that they're important to our team. You cannot say that the Miami injuries are soooooo influential while the Suns missing 2 starters does not matter at all because they're "nobodies".

 

[3rdside]

60% rounds to a 49 win season.

Genius - it sounded little high


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[SirStefan32]

He didn't last year.

And you're still ignoring the point. It does not matter if Len and Knight are not as good as Wade and Bosh, all that matters is that they're important to our team. You cannot say that the Miami injuries are soooooo influential while the Suns missing 2 starters does not matter at all because they're "nobodies".

Sure it matters, but you are ignoring the fact that Miami's injuries are far more painful. Put Bosh and Wade on the Suns and send Len and Knight to Miami. Miami will be a bottom five team, while the Suns will have a home court advantage in the playoffs. They'll get destroyed by any good, power-team, but the talent level between the two teams would be insane.

 

[Phrazbit]

Sure it matters, but you are ignoring the fact that Miami's injuries are far more painful. Put Bosh and Wade on the Suns and send Len and Knight to Miami. Miami will be a bottom five team, while the Suns will have a home court advantage in the playoffs. They'll get destroyed by any good, power-team, but the talent level between the two teams would be insane.

I don't think anyone is ignoring that Miami has had injuries or that Bosh's injury is a bad one. But you chose to discount the Suns injuries entirely.

Your Wade hypothetical is an interesting nothing but this one is a lot more concrete:

Put the Suns in the East and they're a certain playoff team and likely a top 4 seed, put Miami in the West and they're on the verge of being mathematically dead. Miami is a cute team on paper but it has not translated to anything but a below average team in a horrible conference.

 

[SirStefan32]

I don't think anyone is ignoring that Miami has had injuries or that Bosh's injury is a bad one. But you chose to discount the Suns injuries entirely.

Your Wade hypothetical is an interesting nothing but this one is a lot more concrete:

Put the Suns in the East and they're a certain playoff team and likely a top 4 seed, put Miami in the West and they're on the verge of being mathematically dead. Miami is a cute team on paper but it has not translated to anything but a below average team in a horrible conference.

Sure they would be dead in the West. They are missing Chris Bosh and his backup. Then they lost a bunch of role players when they got Dragic. They are not a good team.

 

[Phrazbit]

Sure they would be dead in the West. They are missing Chris Bosh and his backup. Then they lost a bunch of role players when they got Dragic. They are not a good team.

They would have been long dead before Bosh ever got hurt.

 

[SirStefan32]

They would have been long dead before Bosh ever got hurt.

So, what you are saying is that Dragic/Wade/Deng/Bosh/Whiteside are worse than Bledsoe/Knight/Tucker/Morris/Len? You really believe that? Any objectivity you think you have is gone. Just tell me what color the sky is in your world, please.

 

[Phrazbit]

So, what you are saying is that Dragic/Wade/Deng/Bosh/Whiteside are worse than Bledsoe/Knight/Tucker/Morris/Len? You really believe that? Any objectivity you think you have is gone. Just tell me what color the sky is in your world, please.

Putting words in another's mouth is a great way to win an argument.

I'll use the same tactic but in one actually in touch with the reality of the debate.

So, you're telling me that a 37-33 record is worse than 32-36? Does 2+2=5? Maybe 22?

Oh, since I said "before Bosh got hurt" that means we're talking about their record at 22-30... so THAT is better than 37-33?

Don't even try to toss the "objectivity" card at me when your argument relies on completely ignoring their records.

 

[Cheesebeef]

You can try to justify it any way you want, but Len and Knight missing a couple of games is not remotely similar to Bosh being out of the season, and Wade and Dragic missing a game or two here and there. "Well, we are a crappy team" is not a valid argument.

Don't know what Dragic will average, but I'll bet you anything he will have more of an impact on Miami than your boy Bledsoe will have on our team.

Lol... When has Bledsoe EVER been my boy? I've bashed him multiple times and have said repeatedly I don't know if he ever will be whAt people hope he is. Nuance has never been your thing, but just because I don't think k Dragic is about to have the greatest 3 year run of all time, doesn't mean I'm a Bledsoe nuthugger (a personal attack you've levied before). I can actually be objective about BOTH players, something you apparently can't do. But hey... Why disuss anything rationally when you can ascribe views to people they don't have and then play the victim card when someone throws you a little taste of your own medicine.

My boy Bledsoe... That's as baseless a statement as Dragic will have statsically the best 3 year run of any PG ever.

 

[Cheesebeef]

So, what you are saying is that Dragic/Wade/Deng/Bosh/Whiteside are worse than Bledsoe/Knight/Tucker/Morris/Len? You really believe that? Any objectivity you think you have is gone. Just tell me what color the sky is in your world, please.

LOL... I'll admit, the brain dead thing was out of line, but how is asking someone what color is the sky in your world any less of an attack? And that was from someone simply talking basketball, no snapping back and forth before hand. I mean, should he take it as a badge of honor that you attacked him like you did me?

 

[SirStefan32]

Putting words in another's mouth is a great way to win an argument.

I'll use the same tactic but in one actually in touch with the reality of the debate.

So, you're telling me that a 37-33 record is worse than 32-36? Does 2+2=5? Maybe 22?

Oh, since I said "before Bosh got hurt" that means we're talking about their record at 22-30... so THAT is better than 37-33?

Don't even try to toss the "objectivity" card at me when your argument relies on completely ignoring their records.

You said:
...put Miami in the West and they're on the verge of being mathematically dead.
and then
They would have been long dead before Bosh ever got hurt.

I said:
So, what you are saying is that Dragic/Wade/Deng/Bosh/Whiteside are worse than Bledsoe/Knight/Tucker/Morris/Len?

How am I putting words in your mouth? If Miami would be "dead" in the West, and the Suns are not quite "dead", it follows that Phoenix is the better team.

 

[Phrazbit]

You said:
...put Miami in the West and they're on the verge of being mathematically dead.
and then
They would have been long dead before Bosh ever got hurt.

I said:
So, what you are saying is that Dragic/Wade/Deng/Bosh/Whiteside are worse than Bledsoe/Knight/Tucker/Morris/Len?

How am I putting words in your mouth? If Miami would be "dead" in the West, and the Suns are not quite "dead", it follows that Phoenix is the better team.

Yeah, I said that, because Miami's record of 32-36 is well out of contention if it were in the West, and then I said that line about Bosh because they were 22-30 before he got hurt... which is even further out of contention. And when you factor in they have that record in the EAST then its easy in infer that in the west they're not a playoff contender. Its not like I am making any leaps here.

Then you proceeded to put a bunch of words in my mouth because you don't feel like accepting the reality of their records.

 

[SirStefan32]

Yeah, I said that, because Miami's record of 32-36 is well out of contention, and then I said that line about Bosh because they were 22-30 before he got hurt... which is even further out of contention. And when you factor in they have that record in the EAST then its easy in infer that in the west they're not a playoff contender. Its not like I am making any leaps here.

Then you proceeded to put a bunch of words in my mouth because you don't feel like accepting the reality of their records.

Right, so Phoenix is better than Miami. Is that NOT what you said?

 

[Phrazbit]

Right, so Phoenix is better than Miami. Is that NOT what you said?

... I said their record is better than Miami's, and they play in a harder conference. Those are facts. The sky is blue and 2+2=4.

Welcome to reality.

 

[SirStefan32]

OK, so what did I misrepresent then?