Suns Beat Clippers 105-83

[jbeecham]

http://www.nba.com/games/20041013/LACPHO/boxscore.html
REBOUNDS
PLAYER POS MIN FGM-A 3GM-A FTM-A OFF DEF TOT AST PF ST TO BS PTS
LIONEL CHALMERS G 22 2-9 0-4 3-6 0 3 3 3 4 0 4 0 7
QUINTON ROSS G 18 1-3 0-0 0-0 1 2 3 1 3 1 1 0 2
BOBBY SIMMONS F 29 5-15 0-1 5-6 4 4 8 2 3 2 1 0 15
ELTON BRAND F 21 4-8 0-0 3-5 2 0 2 0 2 0 3 0 11
MIKKI MOORE C 19 1-4 0-0 1-2 1 2 3 4 3 0 3 0 3
Shaun Livingston 27 3-5 0-0 0-0 2 0 2 0 5 0 2 1 6
Chris Wilcox 24 3-8 0-0 5-8 1 7 8 0 6 0 1 1 11
Trajan Langdon 18 2-6 1-3 0-0 0 2 2 0 2 0 1 0 5
Terence Morris 17 2-7 0-0 0-0 2 2 4 0 2 0 1 2 4
Kaniel Dickens 16 3-7 1-2 5-5 0 2 2 2 3 1 2 1 12
Jerry Holman 9 0-0 0-0 2-2 2 2 4 0 1 0 1 0 2
Rick Brunson 8 0-0 0-0 0-1 0 0 0 2 1 1 2 0 0
Marcus Fleming 6 0-1 0-0 1-2 0 0 0 1 0 2 1 1 1
Mamadou N'diaye 6 1-3 0-0 2-3 1 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 4
Chris Kaman DNP
Kerry Kittles DNP
Marko Jaric DNP
Corey Maggette DNP
Zeljko Rebraca DNP
TOTAL 240 27-76 2-10 27-40 16 26 42 15 35 7 23 6 83
35.5% 20.0% 67.5% Team Rebs: 17 Total TO: 24


Suns
REBOUNDS
PLAYER POS MIN FGM-A 3GM-A FTM-A OFF DEF TOT AST PF ST TO BS PTS
JOE JOHNSON G 26 4-6 1-3 5-5 0 1 1 3 1 1 1 0 14
QUENTIN RICHARDSON G 26 8-15 5-6 1-2 1 4 5 2 4 2 2 2 22
CASEY JACOBSEN F 32 3-6 2-2 4-4 2 2 4 0 3 3 2 0 12
MACIEJ LAMPE F 26 2-5 0-0 2-4 1 8 9 1 3 0 1 0 6
JAKE VOSKUHL C 12 0-1 0-0 1-2 0 2 2 1 5 0 2 1 1
Amare Stoudemire 26 6-11 0-0 10-16 3 3 6 1 2 2 1 1 22
Yuta Tabuse 20 0-3 0-1 2-4 1 1 2 2 3 2 1 1 2
Steven Hunter 18 4-5 0-0 0-0 0 2 2 1 4 0 2 2 8
Howard Eisley 17 1-3 0-1 0-0 0 1 1 4 1 2 1 0 2
Zarko Cabarkapa 13 1-5 0-0 0-0 2 4 6 0 6 0 2 2 2
Derrick Dial 10 2-5 1-2 1-1 1 0 1 1 0 0 2 0 6
Paul Shirley 9 3-7 0-0 0-2 1 2 3 0 1 0 0 0 6
5 0-1 0-0 2-4 0 1 1 0 2 0 0 0 2
Steve Nash DNP
Leandro Barbosa DNP
Shawn Marion DNP
Jackson Vroman DNP
TOTAL 240 34-73 9-15 28-44 12 31 43 16 35 12 17 9 105
46.6% 60.0% 63.6% Team Rebs: 15 Total TO: 18


TEAM STATISTICS
Clippers Suns
Fast Break Pts 7 Fast Break Pts 21
Points in the Paint 28 Points in the Paint 36
Biggest Lead 7 Biggest Lead 28

Final 1 2 3 4 T
Clippers 21 25 19 18 83
Suns 33 25 27 20 105

Technical Foul Individual
LAC
PHO

 

[JS22]

Q had a good game. Hunter didnt do too bad either with 8 points and 2 blocks.

I'm glad we picked them up.

 

[George O'Brien]

Both teams had a number of people out. Suns DNP included Nash, Barbosa, Marion (nasal infection), and of course Vroman. The Clippers did not play Kamen, Kittles, and Jarik. But the Suns have much more depth.

Q gave the Clippers a shot over the bow with 22 points on 8 of 15 including 5 of 6 for three with 5 rebounds and 2 assists.

JJ was not as flashy, but had 14 points on 4 of 6 from the field and 5 for 5 from the line. Only one rebound but 3 assists. Both JJ and Q had EXACTLY 26 minutes.

Amare totally dominated Brand, with 22 points to Brand's 11. Amare was 6 of 11 from the field but only 10 of 16 from the line.

Lampe's shooting was below par, 2 of 5 from the field and just 2 of 4 from the line; but he grabbed 9 rebounds in 26 minutes.

Apparently somebody told Zarko to be agressive which resulted in 6 rebounds and 2 blocked shots in only 13 minutes before he fouled out.

Hunter only had 2 rebounds in his 18 minutes, but went 4 of 5 from the field and had two blocks.

Quality game by Casey: 12 points on 3 of 6 from the field, 2 of 2 for three, 4 of 4 from the line; 4 rebounds and 3 steals.

As expected, Eisley got some minutes (17) and had 4 assists and 2 steals.

One of the more interesting stats of the game was a blocked shot by Yuta Tabuse. Everybody was wondering where the Suns were going to find another shot blocker. Here he is.

Obviously the workouts made a big difference. You have to wonder how many teams could blow anyone out without two starters and their top two point guards. It's a good start.

 

[jbeecham]

The Clippers were also missing Maggette

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Q had a real slow start, going 3 for 8 before halftime. I guess he got it going by the end of the game.

I think we will see a lot of inconsistancy with real highs and lows from Q like Joe said.

 

[elindholm]

Amare was 6 of 11 from the field but only 10 of 16 from the line.

I'll take "only" 10-16 from the line any day. 63% is pretty poor, but 16 attempts is great.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

I was at the game......


The Good:
Amare looked awesome, and most importantly, he seemed to have much better defensive presence, keeping on the ground with pump fakes.

Steven Hunter looked like someone who could actually contribute. He affected some shots, and played very hard. His effort was surprisingly good, and his position on rebounds was impressive.

Q was constant energy the entire game, and his three point shooting was excellent, when he had the opportunity to set his feet his shot looked really good.

Lampe looked less clueless, and played quite agressively, a nice change.

The Bad:
Casey had a poor game, he looked worthless except for spot up threes, which appears to be his career....

Jake Voskhul looked like crap, and was competely ineffective. Even worse, he still made the same stupid fouls, and got caught for a moving screen, some good things never change....

That's all for now, JJ made some nice moves, Tabuse looked much worse than Ho Eiseley.

 

[playstation]

so this means that in 26 minutes amare drew no less than 8 fouls (more if any were part of 3 point plays, or if any were not shooting fouls). i'm guessing that this is with elton brand guarding him?

its not often you see guys shooting 16 free throws in a game period, much less in 26 minutes, much less against an all-star. i know, first game of the preseason, but you have to like what you see there

by the way, anyone else find it funny that for the past week casey j has been repeating that he doesn't expect much playing time and right off the bat he gets 40 minutes?

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

by the way, anyone else find it funny that for the past week casey j has been repeating that he doesn't expect much playing time and right off the bat he gets 40 minutes?

Well, considering near 50 guard minutes (barbosa and Nash) didn't play, and 35 SF minutes (marion), I would guess the time had to go to someone.

 

[playstation]

also, the one stat i harp on more than any other (i'm a stat *****): points per shot. to me, its the one indicator of true efficiency (aka AI = 30 points on 27 shots, Corey Maggette = 20 points on 13 shots).

usually, a PPS of 1.1 or over is not too bad, 1.2 is good, and 1.3 is great (or so is my estimation). last year, only 22 players had a PPS of 1.30 or higher

last seasons PPS for some effective players:

shaq 1.52
dampier 1.40
yao 1.40
magloire 1.38
duncan 1.30

maggette 1.49
peja 1.42
nash 1.33
kobe 1.32
garnett 1.23
pierce 1.23
mcgrady 1.20

point of note here is that garnett, pierce, and mcgrady, despite being fabulous players, had issues last year that affected their PPS efficiency, and I argue this reduces their effectiveness: garnett (inability to get to the free throw line at will), pierce/mcgrady (low fg%). the thing this doesn't measure is if you can create your own shot and if you are forced into a position to take shots because the shot clock is winding down, but hey, I didn't say it was a magic formula!

anywho, the point of all this is looking at the game tonight. i know that its just one game, preseason no less, but look at the PPS:

amare 2.00
q 1.47
jj 2.33

when guys that can create their own shot have those types of gaudy numbers, you can pretty much chalk up a win anytime that happens. therefore, the point of this manifesto is: suns rule all! lol

 

[George O'Brien]

I almost followed that.

I am very big on improving shooting percentages through ball movement, improved shot selection, and good shot mechanics. All are related. Without good ball movement, it is hard to get uncontested shots and it is hard to sustain good mechanics when being tightly guarded. It starts with being team oriented and not worrying about personal ppg and just on winning.

If I was a GM (yeh, right), I'd put extra incentives for assists (and penalties for turnovers). I'd put incentives on shooting percentages and "team rebounding" for interior guys (blocking out should be rewarded).

 

[hoopdedo42]

Good start! I can't wait to see when everyone gets to play.

 

[playstation]

movement has something to do with getting a good shot but a high PPS usually denotes a guy who can finish around the hoop as well as get whistles.

i don't get it, are you saying it doesn't matter if your PPS is low or high, or are you saying that is only one component for winning? if you're saying the latter, i agree with you, if the former i do not.

 

[George O'Brien]

movement has something to do with getting a good shot but a high PPS usually denotes a guy who can finish around the hoop as well as get whistles.

i don't get it, are you saying it doesn't matter if your PPS is low or high, or are you saying that is only one component for winning? if you're saying the latter, i agree with you, if the former i do not.

Probably the second (whatever it is that you just said), but actually my point is that it is a team game. Low shooting percentages or low PPS usually reflect a breakdown in team orientation. On an indiividual game basis a great defense can make anyone look bad, but it is usually because guys get frustrated and try to take the game into their own hands.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

movement has something to do with getting a good shot but a high PPS usually denotes a guy who can finish around the hoop as well as get whistles.

i don't get it, are you saying it doesn't matter if your PPS is low or high, or are you saying that is only one component for winning? if you're saying the latter, i agree with you, if the former i do not.

PPS is just another way to express FG%.

edit:Rephrase, PPS is a less effective way to respresent FG%. Alone, I haven't really found a great use for the statistic that would warrant it becoming a mainstay. Can anyone else name one?)

In itself, it is a pretty useless statistic since FG% is so widely used. Also, it favors players who can shoot the 3, instead of players who make more of their shots.

For a team, PPP (point per possesion) is a true measure of efficiency. I just got a job breaking down video for NBA games. Since everything is recorded, they can pull up an individual players PPP, even as detailed to which area of the floor they are on. Since it takes into account all turnovers and forced pass outs, it is better efficiency scale.

 

[playstation]

I was unaware of PPP, that does sound pretty cool.

however, i disagree with you assesment of PPS. Its not just fg%/3pt%, the highest factor into it is free throws per game. if you shoot 35% for the game but make 18/20 FT's, your PPS will be strong. Granted, there are outlayers like peja, who can't get to the line but still have a strong PPS, but that is also a factor of how rediculously awesome he is at shooting. for the most part, high fg% can't help you in PPS, because even if you shoot 50%, no FT's and no 3's equals a PPS of 1.

This is important because in my belief it is exactly the ability to get to the free throw line at will that creates a truly dominant player. if the team is in a funk, you can put your strong player in a position to draw a foul and get himself to the line. that's huge.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

I didn't know that PPS included FT shooting. That does help ratings a little I guess.

It still doesn't change my view on it though. It is basically a number that takes into account a players FG%, 3pt% and FT%/FTA. The biggest problem I have with it is it doesn't really add anything. It could be used as a great sorter I guess, but you still would have to dig into each player to see the reasons.

Like you said, some players can get a high PPS by shooting in close at a high rate (like Shaq). Others by shooting lights out from mid range and 3s, like Peja, others by getting to the line a ton (like Pierce?) and lastly, some by being a well rounded player.

A coach or scout will not look at a PPS, and leave it at that number. They will want to know WHY the PPS is where it is, so they can defend against it, or help their players improve in different aspects.

Since the other 4 or 5 statistical catagories are readily available at any time, usually on the same page or piece of paper, I dont really see the need for PPS. I guess it is just a preference though.


Yah, PPP is a neat stat. The team version is a surefire way to indicate how efficient a team is on offense. I hadn't see the player version before last week actually. The amount of information it can provide is unreal.

The sample I saw was the demo for teams. It had all the players from the DET/Indy series last playoffs. He was able to pull up J. Oneal, and you could see the frequency and efficiency (by PPP) for his offense in each of 6 or 7 different offense types (like post up, on the break, top of the key ect.).

You could even dig deeper and see the frequency/efficiency for him on the left block versus the right block. Then you could dig deeper and see the frequency/efficiency of him on the left block when spins left or right.

All the while getting a refined search of video clips I might add. The guys who made this system are scouting geniuses, and they will definitely make a TON of money off this system.

 

[playstation]

jeebus! where can i go to see this stat? you're right. would provide great insight to the success of the team in certain situations.

back to PPS for a quick second, you're right, if i'm a scout, that doesn't really tell me a whole lot. however, if i'm a fan who wants to measure the effectiveness of a player at an individual level, PPS is pretty cool.

the cool part about PPS or PPP is that you have a finite number of them (shots/possesions). a high PPP then would probably be the holy grail offensively.

also, how did you get a job breaking down stats? HOW DID YOU GET MY DREAM JOB!!!

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

also, how did you get a job breaking down stats? HOW DID YOU GET MY DREAM JOB!!!

Luck. I actually cut up the video, and track possession changes, fast breaks, zones ect. ect. That part is done within 30 minutes of the game ending. The second part with all shot attempts and offensive catagories takes place within the next 12 hours. The company is brand new, so I am starting out with the first part, and will hopefully be doing the second part not to far from the season start.

The stat breakdown is actually the finished product. Unfortunately, I never really get to see it. Teams pay 75k a year for this package, so only them and my bosses have a copy of the coach screen, where all this info is accessed. I just get access to the game tape

 

[playstation]

is there a post somewhere for this job? i'm currently in IT, and i love basketball like michael jackson loves little boys, i'd be a great fit!

also, is it a full time gig that can actually pay bills?

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

is there a post somewhere for this job? i'm currently in IT, and i love basketball like michael jackson loves little boys, i'd be a great fit!

also, is it a full time gig that can actually pay bills?

No post, I just found out about it from my friends dad who is a vet, and takes care of the owners dogs.

The ceo is Garrick Barr. He was the suns video coordinator for years. It definitely doesn't pay the bills. You get 35 bucks a game if you do the first part, and 55 if you do part one and two. We get like 5 games a week most likely. Im just doing it since I am obsessed with the NBA, and it gives some spending cash.

 

[playstation]

how long does it take you to do a game?

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

how long does it take you to do a game?

Well I havent done a full game yet since the season hasnt started (I have done some games from last year for practice) but it basically takes slightly longer than the game itself. You don't really get to watch it though, since you start about 10 minutes after the game does, and need to be done within a half an hour of completion. Not much time to enjoy the game.

 

[binkar]

I almost followed that.

I am very big on improving shooting percentages through ball movement, improved shot selection, and good shot mechanics. All are related. Without good ball movement, it is hard to get uncontested shots and it is hard to sustain good mechanics when being tightly guarded. It starts with being team oriented and not worrying about personal ppg and just on winning.

If I was a GM (yeh, right), I'd put extra incentives for assists (and penalties for turnovers). I'd put incentives on shooting percentages and "team rebounding" for interior guys (blocking out should be rewarded).

I understood it alot more then I understand the point of alot of your posts George.