Suns @ Bucks Tuesday Finals game thread 7-20-2021 - Game 6

[Hoop Head]

He does have moves. He just isn’t effective at using them . That’s what happens when you’ve been the fourth or fifth option the entire time you have been here. Honestly, they need to fire Mark Bryant and bring in someone to work with him full time on low post moves.

If he could seal his defender inside he wouldn't be our 4th or 5th option. I can guarantee he wasn't drafted to be that far down the totem pole either.

I don't blame Mark Bryant either. He's been lauded by many within and outside of this organization for the works he's done with Ayton defensively. We need someone to help Ayton offensively some too but I think its effort more than anything that is Ayton's issue. I'm not alone in that either.

 

[DJ Tabooh]

Agree. I think Ayton becomes a terrific #3. But that’s his likely ceiling. I don’t think book is good enough as-is to be a championship #1 either. His defense will never be that level, he’s not consistent enough drawing fouls or shooting 3’s, and he still lets his emotions get the better of him far too often. He would be the best #2, or really a 1b in the league. Kinda need to get him an equivalent sidekick. Kinda like a kawhi and Paul George pairing.

This was Book’s playoff debut and we got within 2 games of a championship. He’s absolutely a #1. If he had any help in game 4 and 5 we’re champs. Middleton didn’t do much tonight and Book was on him the entire game. His 3 ball needs more consistency but he’s won a 3 point contest so he CAN shoot. It’s just a consistency thing. But Book, though he does need to make better decisions and not let the refs get in his head in my opinion has proven to be a superstar. We sure as **** don’t beat the Clips in game 1 and 2 without Book and CP3 playing but he carried us.

 

[GoldGloveschmidt]

Ayton did revert back to the way he played most of the season, that's absolutely fair, he just didn't put in the same effort in the Finals that he did in prior series. He got down on himself and lost his confidence. I just wish he had the killer mental drive to be great that Book has because he could absolutely dominate.

 

[Covert Rain]

“Not running down the court” now equals “match giannis”. Lol at terrible takes.

Giannis is the best big man in the league and asking Ayton or Crowder to stop him was wishful thinking. Ayton could have played better for sure but the Suns don’t have anybody on this roster who can play at that level that consistently. Giannis is the best big man since Shaq and I bet he surpasses him before all is said and done. I have never seen a guy that big move like he does. Not sure anybody can guard him in the league.

 

[Hoop Head]

Maybe sign Giannis brother to guard him, hope that Giannis won't run over his family. That's the only way to stop him.

 

[Cc5674]

Without a doubt one of the most epic collapses in NBA Finals history.

 

[azsouthendzone]

I don’t think that is fair. Nobody could have guarded Giannis the way he played. He is the best big man in the League bar none.

Didn't have to match him just try. He was mentally toast.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Cam J has improved more in the last year than Bridges has in 3 in that regard. He's a keeper. I seriously consider shopping Bridges though.


I'm not saying Cam J will become a great shot creator but he's shown enough development on both ends that I think he's higher on the keepers list than Mikal going forward.

I go back and forth on them. Cam
Has shown more ability to go to the rack, but he doesn’t have the foot speed or handles to actually be a consistent threat. I have been lamenting the fact that we don’t actually have a backup 2 guard all season. We kinda got by just playing a three guard rotation with Payne but makes us small and he’s not good enough getting his shot of whenever we need it.

 

[Covert Rain]

Didn't have to match him just try. He was mentally toast.

He tried. He just wasn’t good enough. Once he got into foul trouble mentally he was defeated.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Well to be fair Crowder guarded him a ton as well and for some reason the Suns wall from last game evaporated this game. They did an OK job last game and that evaporated.

I think that’s fair. But even with that - 50 pts and 5 fouls. That’s not good defense.

 

[ajcardfan]

Haven't caught up, but zooming out a bit, the team with the best player usually wins in the playoffs. Milwaukee had by far the best, and arguably the second best in Jrue. He may not have flashy offensive numbers but he was a monster defensively all series. Tip your hat to them, they were the better team.

Especially when that best player absolutely excelled at his biggest weakness. He was fantastic at the free throw line. Had he shot the percentage he had shot in the playoffs going into this game, we almost certainly win and everyone is jacked up for game 7.

But these sorts of takes are far to level headed for this thread. Instead, it appears to be more fun to excoriate our players and throw them under the bus after an incredibly good season and playoffs absolutely no one saw coming.

 

[Covert Rain]

I think that’s fair. But even with that - 50 pts and 5 fouls. That’s not good defense.

There are very few players I consider unguardable. Giannis is one of them.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

They have never asked him to be that player. He has never been asked to be that guy. His offense was a complete afterthought until this playoffs. It’s not all on him.

All of this “they’ve never asked him…” is really just kinda excuses. Do the great players have to be asked to develop? I think most of them recognize their deficiencies and work to remedy them. Hearing Monty tell it before this year Ayton wasn’t a guy who put in extra time. He didn’t “smell the gym.” He was a guy excited for his second contract. Hopefully that’s changed under monty’s and Paul’s tutelage. Hopefully.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

He does have moves. He just isn’t effective at using them . That’s what happens when you’ve been the fourth or fifth option the entire time you have been here. Honestly, they need to fire Mark Bryant and bring in someone to work with him full time on low post moves.

Well according to your logic, why? Apparently he will only get better if they make him more of an option? Most players get better practicing. Repetition. Off season work.

 

[FB94]

oh your one of those guys who thinks all it takes is just trying hard.

Ayton played fine and had some really good games in the finals but you do understand what a special athlete Giannis is right? That’s God given that size and speed combo.

like I said name me all the seven footers who aren’t going to be dead tired by the end of the game chasing him up and down the court

We can go round and round on this. Giannis is from another planet I get it. But name one play where you saw Ayton sprint downcourt to block a shot, you can’t. For me effort, hustle and desire is high on my criteria list. Again it takes ZERO talent to hustle.

 

[1Sun]

All of this “they’ve never asked him…” is really just kinda excuses. Do the great players have to be asked to develop? I think most of them recognize their deficiencies and work to remedy them. Hearing Monty tell it before this year Ayton wasn’t a guy who put in extra time. He didn’t “smell the gym.” He was a guy excited for his second contract. Hopefully that’s changed under monty’s and Paul’s tutelage. Hopefully.

If his "effort" in the Finals is any indication, it hasn't. And once he actually gets that second contract, I don't expect that to improve...

 

[Covert Rain]

All of this “they’ve never asked him…” is really just kinda excuses. Do the great players have to be asked to develop? I think most of them recognize their deficiencies and work to remedy them. Hearing Monty tell it before this year Ayton wasn’t a guy who put in extra time. He didn’t “smell the gym.” He was a guy excited for his second contract. Hopefully that’s changed under monty’s and Paul’s tutelage. Hopefully.

Ayton doesn’t create the offensive sets and amd doesn’t call plays. This offense is not an inside out offense. It never has been. Everything runs through Paul and Booker with them setting up everyone else. Look up the Suns shot chart for the season.

That’s not how this team is built.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

This was Book’s playoff debut and we got within 2 games of a championship. He’s absolutely a #1. If he had any help in game 4 and 5 we’re champs. Middleton didn’t do much tonight and Book was on him the entire game. His 3 ball needs more consistency but he’s won a 3 point contest so he CAN shoot. It’s just a consistency thing. But Book, though he does need to make better decisions and not let the refs get in his head in my opinion has proven to be a superstar. We sure as **** don’t beat the Clips in game 1 and 2 without Book and CP3 playing but he carried us.

I think to win a championship he has to be a co-1. He’s not a giannis, steph, Durant, Lebron, kawhi type #1.

 

[Covert Rain]

Well according to your logic, why? Apparently he will only get better if they make him more of an option? Most players get better practicing. Repetition. Off season work.

Those players also did it over the course of an entire seasons with offense built around them. That’s was supposed to change in the playoffs?!? You give Monty too much credit.

 

[GoldGloveschmidt]

There are very few players I consider unguardable. Giannis is one of them.

With the way he's officiated.. yeah. Not only is he a freak of nature, but when you try to guard him with physicality you get a foul call for bumping into him too hard.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Giannis is the best big man in the league and asking Ayton or Crowder to stop him was wishful thinking. Ayton could have played better for sure but the Suns don’t have anybody on this roster who can play at that level that consistently. Giannis is the best big man since Shaq and I bet he surpasses him before all is said and done. I have never seen a guy that big move like he does. Not sure anybody can guard him in the league.

You’re right. But again, there’s a chasm of difference between 50 and getting 5 fouls and slowing him to even 35, you know STILL MORE than he averaged this season. Giannis averaged 28pts per game this year. In the most important game of the season he went for 50. No expected giannis to be “stopped.” But how about not allowing him to average 7 points OVER his seasons average?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

There are very few players I consider unguardable. Giannis is one of them.

He averaged 28pts per game in the regular season. That’s awesome. He’s awesome. That’s not unguardable. He averaged 35pts per game in 6 games in the finals. We allowed him to become unguardable.

 

[Bufalay]

When? He's just finished his 3rd season. Don't give me the new to basketball excuse either. That's not an excuse after how long he's been playing. He should have some go to moves by now.

Next season?

He just finished his second full season. He kicked *** in the playoffs and was the team’s best player.

He’s already changed his game immensely in 3 years. I wouldn’t be surprised if his career evolves in a manner similar to Paulo George jimmy butler and Kawhi Leonard, great defensive players who became dominant on offense later on.

 

[Raindog]

Most players get better practicing. Repetition. Off season work.

That may be the issue with the coaching the Suns currently have, though. Is Bryant even doing that? Are the Suns insisting that Ayton does that kind of off-season work with a coach?

I don't know enough to say yay or nay, but I would hope the Suns would be insisting on that... and if Ayton is resisting it, laying down the law to him. That's definitely on the coaching if they aren't.

 

[Bufalay]

You’re right. But again, there’s a chasm of difference between 50 and getting 5 fouls and slowing him to even 35, you know STILL MORE than he averaged this season. Giannis averaged 28pts per game this year. In the most important game of the season he went for 50. No expected giannis to be “stopped.” But how about not allowing him to average 7 points OVER his seasons average?

Ayton got in BS foul trouble in the two Scott foster games. How many of those 18 free throws came on plays where Giannis recklessly ran into Ayton?