Suns @ Clippers, 12/26/2010

Chaplin

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And Kevin Durant and Lebron James and Kobe Bryant and Manu Ginobili and Tony Parker... The list goes on and on. Steeldog wants to bench him in favor of MP or Dudley? I like both those players, but they're nowhere near Grant Hill.
 

Covert Rain

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Pietrus and Dudley are lock down defenders? :confused:

Where did I say that? I said "MP plays good defense and at times Dudley does to."

The next part of the comment ("Grant is still a good defender but he is not lock down night in and night out.") was specifically referring to Chaps comments about Hill being a great defender by a mile.

Hill has done reasonably well on back to backs this season. :shrug: The other guys have generally had more problems.

I just don't see it. I have seen Hill be very inconsistent this year. I have either seen him play bad defense in situations where we have back to backs or have no legs in those scenarios.

Hill did poorly coming off the bench a couple of seasons ago. :shrug:

I get that. However, you can't start Hill if you have someone better then him that can start just so Hill plays better. That benefits Hill more than the team.

Steeldog wants to bench him in favor of MP or Dudley? I like both those players, but they're nowhere near Grant Hill.

MP by all the analysts accounts is one of the best perimeter defenders in the NBA. I hardly call that "nowhere near Grant Hill" if those analysis are correct.

Also, my preference would be NOT to start Grant on back to backs or in some scenarios where we have 3 games in 4 night scenarios. I don't think Hill can handle it any longer.

The facts are these......this team with Grant in the starting lineup is the worst defending team in the NBA. We are giving up 17.7 Points per 48 from the SF and 17.7 from the PF (the primary two positions they play him in). That is terrible. MP playing the SF position in Orlando was only giving up 13.9 per 48.

Sounds like this year, Grant (before the trade), was the best defender on a team of horrible defenders. Being the best horrible defender on the team doesn't say "headed in the right direction" to me.

MG is better then Lopez at defending and rebounding. MP (if you buy into it) is suppose to be one of the best perimeter defenders. You need them in your starting lineup for any possibility of sneaking into the playoffs IMO.
 
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BC867

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MG is better then Lopez at defending and rebounding. MP (if you buy into it) is suppose to be one of the best perimeter defenders. You need them in your starting lineup for any possibility of sneaking into the playoffs IMO.
It was good to see MG and MP each getting 27 minutes in their second Suns game, the 5th and 6th most minutes in the game for us.

I was going to say that I have confidence that Gentry will have them in the starting lineup before too long. But Vince Carter fouls up that plan.

'Any chance of moving him when he's ready to play in a week?

For those of you who are old enough to remember Gomer Pyle, USMC, his Sargeant was named Vince Carter. I chuckle every time I hear his name.
 

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Irish

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I have mixed feelings about VC. On one hand, he usually plays well after a trade. On the other hand, he is clearly not here for long and may limit giving the minutes to Dudley and Pietruswhich would prepare for the future.

I would not be shocked if VC's contract was bought out if he can't be traded. The backups need the experience and even with him I don't see the Suns repeating last seaon's playoff run. I would rather position themselfs for the draft and free agency.
 

nashman

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I think some of you are crazy if VC is ready to play and cleared BY THE SUNS TRAINERS then by all means he should play. He is more talented scorer than either MP or JD and we need a scorer on the floor. I am not ready to scrap a season when we are only a 1/3 way into it thats just crazy talk. The Suns were not even supposed to make the playoffs last year and damn near made the finals, its way to early to know what you have in this team after the trade since the guys have had very little time to gel!
 

JCSunsfan

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Hill defended Blake?

Most of the time, and frustrated him alot. I spent most of the game marveling at how Grant seemed to have the strength to deal with that load. Grant played a very physical game and frustrated him significantly.

The Clippers were just hot early, making alot of contested, difficult shots. That team has a lot more talent that their record would indicate. The Suns had a hard time surviving Nash's early cold shooting streak. To me, Nash's early shooting woes--that was the game changer.
 

BC867

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I think some of you are crazy if VC is ready to play and cleared BY THE SUNS TRAINERS then by all means he should play. He is more talented scorer than either MP or JD and we need a scorer on the floor.
We also need a defender on the floor at the Big Guard position. There's nothing crazy about that.

Pietrus seemed to fit both requirements in his second game with us.

Do you feel that Carter would, too?
 

JCSunsfan

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We also need a defender on the floor at the Big Guard position. There's nothing crazy about that.

Pietrus seemed to fit both requirements in his second game with us.

Do you feel that Carter would, too?

Pietrus was a pleasant surprise. I am interested to see how Carter will do. Pietrus did seem to jack up some ill-advise shots too. But he defends well on the perimeter and disrupted alot. The Suns problem in this game was lack of offensive efficiency and production--too many missed shots, especially early.
 

AzStevenCal

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We also need a defender on the floor at the Big Guard position. There's nothing crazy about that.

Pietrus seemed to fit both requirements in his second game with us.

Do you feel that Carter would, too?

I've never been a Vince Carter fan but he's a smart player and I seem to recall some positive comments the past year or two about his improved defense. At this point, I'm willing to try anything.

At the risk of making your head explode BC, I'd even try a starting lineup of Nash, Carter, Pietrus, Hill and Gortat. We would no longer be running anything resembling Dantoni's original offense but we're not running it very often or very well now anyway. Hill couldn't do any worse at the PF position than our other pretenders do and at least he understands the basic tenets of defense. And if Nash can average 40 points per game, our offense wouldn't miss a beat either.

Steve
 

BC867

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At the risk of making your head explode BC, I'd even try a starting lineup of Nash, Carter, Pietrus, Hill and Gortat. We would no longer be running anything resembling Dantoni's original offense but we're not running it very often or very well now anyway. Hill couldn't do any worse at the PF position than our other pretenders do and at least he understands the basic tenets of defense. And if Nash can average 40 points per game, our offense wouldn't miss a beat either.

Steve
Where's the Excedrin? :) Nash -- 40 ppg? Until his legs fall off. Again, :)
 

AzStevenCal

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Where's the Excedrin? :) Nash -- 40 ppg? Until his legs fall off. Again, :)

I think that was my subtle way of suggesting that we'd probably average a few points less than we're used to. And, you're right, we probably will run him till his legs fall off.

Steve
 

sunsfan88

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I didn't see it. I was out of town all Sunday and most of Monday.

Horrible news for me. My Chargers lost the crappy Bengals and are now out of the playoffs. My Suns lost to the worst team of ALL-TIME and probably isn't even gonna smell the playoffs.

Seriously. The one day I couldn't watch em, my sports teams all lay an egg. But after losing to the Clippers I think we have a good shot at the #1 overall pick in the next year's draft. Great.

FML
 

Budden

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I just don't see it. I have seen Hill be very inconsistent this year. I have either seen him play bad defense in situations where we have back to backs or have no legs in those scenarios.

[...] You can't start Hill if you have someone better then him that can start just so Hill plays better. That benefits Hill more than the team.

First of all, Grant Hill is averaging 15 points, 5 boards and 2.5 assists in 30 minutes a night, while shooting nearly 53% from the field and ALWAYS guarding the team's top perimeter player. And aside from Nash, he is the only other player on the team that can consistently create high-quality shots for himself. If you replace Hill in the starting lineup with Peaches, then that makes it all the more difficult for Nash to score points. As we've seen, we need Steve to be as dangerous shooting the ball as he is passing the ball for this team to be successful. Replacing Hill with Peaches just puts more of a burden on Steve, because offensively, Peaches is just another Phoenix Sun who can stand around and make 3's while Nash has to turn a possession into an offensive system.

Peaches does seem to be a strong man-to-man defender - yes, better than Grant Hill - but it really doesn't matter. I checked the NBA rulebook, and alas and alack, an NBA team is indeed allowed to have more than 1 player on the floor who are capable defenders!! The Suns won't even be fined or censured by the league for doing it! So, even if we don't start Peaches, there will be ample minutes for him to play - assuming he deserves to.

Also, my preference would be NOT to start Grant on back to backs or in some scenarios where we have 3 games in 4 night scenarios. I don't think Hill can handle it any longer.

We need Hill in the starting lineup, especially on back-to-backs and those scenarios where we have 3 games in 4 nights. He is the guy who consistently comes out of the gate scoring from different angles while Nash distributes the ball to everyone else to see if Lopez will be catching the basketball that night, if Frye is going to have a 1-9 shooting night or a 7-13 shooting night, if teams are going to respect Dudley, etc.

Lastly, there is a very significant difference in Grant Hill being athletically inconsistent versus him being just not as athletic as he was the last few years. And to be clear, I'm not comparing him to what he was in Detroit. I'm comparing him to what he is was two years ago. People would say, "Hill may not play above the rim anymore..." and then he'd go dunk over Dampier (youtube it if you don't remember). This year, his dunks look a little more awkward than they did in his previous years as a Sun. But he's consistently improved his already-deadly midrange game, and he's still as quick running the lanes as just about anyone in the game. He's thriving in the situations he's in both offensively and defensively more than he ever has since coming to Phoenix. Heck, if was playing any better, we'd be forced to either trade him or let him go in free agency, as per Suns team policy (I'm not sure if it's called the Joe Johnson Clause, Amar'e Stoudemire Rights, or the Jason Richardson Team Option, but it's something along those lines...)
 

AfroSuns

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Didn't really get to watch the game but the Suns played like crap from little i saw and what the heck is wrong with the rookie Griffin, did i miss something or he is acting like an A-hole.
I thought Blazers Miller blew the confrontation with him out of proportion but i am beginning to think he is on some sort of power trip.
 

devilalum

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Didn't really get to watch the game but the Suns played like crap from little i saw and what the heck is wrong with the rookie Griffin, did i miss something or he is acting like an A-hole.
I thought Blazers Miller blew the confrontation with him out of proportion but i am beginning to think he is on some sort of power trip.

He was like that in college. I like the way Hill, Pietrus and Gortat didn't back down and got him to foul out.

Maybe we're looking at a new era of Suns toughness.
 

Superbone

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I found out in this game that Griffin is a big baby. He's also quite the flopper. There was one play in particular where nobody touched him above the waist and he threw his head back like he was punched in the jaw or something and got the foul.
 

SunsFan26

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I didn't see it. I was out of town all Sunday and most of Monday.

I've been out of town because of the holidays but I work with DISH and got that TV Everywhere through my receiver/sling adapter. It's a Game Changer. No matter if I'm stuck at the airport, on the road, or a thousand miles from home I can still catch all my games AND my DVR. Anyone else use the TV Everywhere?
 

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