Suns Draft Grades

[Covert Rain]

Just some viewpoints on the Suns draft. It appears most publications thought the Suns had a decent draft.

USATODAY = B
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...es-heat-nuggets-timberwolves-lakers/29308641/

Bleacher Report = B+
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...grades-full-team-by-team-report-cards/page/14

SI = A-
http://www.si.com/nba/2015/06/25/nba-draft-grades-results-analysis-wolves-lakers-76ers-knicks

SportingNews = B+
http://www.sportingnews.com/list/46...ussell-knicks-kristaps-porzingis/slide/334459

Hoopshabit = Winners
http://hoopshabit.com/2015/06/26/2015-nba-draft-biggest-winners-losers/

 

[JCSunsfan]

Some "moringing after" thoughts.

1. Trying to get Frank. Some have taken the Suns inability to the Tank as evidence that the league does not value the Suns assets. Word is that Ainge threw almost everything at Charlotte, and they wanted more. At some point, you have to walk away from the deal. As much as I wanted Frank, he is not a player on which you mortgage everything.

2. On not trading for #4. I would have traded Bledsoe and #13 for KP. But not making that trade is OK. We still have Bledsoe and a young shooter to build around. Wait for the next dea.

3. On drafting Booker. Not the guy I wanted by any stretch. But he was the BPA and addressed an area of need. There really was no other choice. If the Suns had made another choice, the criticism would be that they did not take Booker when he slipped.
4. Trading the second round pick. I would have taken Christian Wood. He is a big, rebounds, and seems to have a shooting touch. Just what we need. They traded for a similar big, and since Wood was not drafted, could give him a look too. OK, I guess.

It wasn't a great day, but I cannot see what McD could have done better.

2nd roun

 

[Chaz]

Everyone has been speculating that they wanted Kaminsky but I have to wonder if they weren't trying to get ahead of Miami for Winslow.

I also don't believe that a deal for Bledsoe for #4 was ever offered or seriously considered by the Suns.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Jon Leuer 6-11 witn a 7-0 wingspan and a 37 inch vert. Standing reach is not too good at 8-10 (3 inches shy of Kaminsky). Usually that means a longer kneck, and bigger head rather than the higher, hunched shoulders players like KD have.

If you looking at a player or playing style to compare him to, think Gugliotta. I suppose he is as good as any second round prospect you might get, but he is older and closer to being a contributor.

 

[sunsfan88]

I don't view us not getting Kaminsky as a bad thing, I view the fact that McD was even trying so hard to get him as a bad thing. Kaminsky is not a high reward type player and would have been a bad choice even at #13 if he slipped so much less trading up for him.

Questionable decision making by McD in even entertaining the thought of trading up for a prospect like Kamisnky.

 

[Covert Rain]

Everyone has been speculating that they wanted Kaminsky but I have to wonder if they weren't trying to get ahead of Miami for Winslow.

I also don't believe that a deal for Bledsoe for #4 was ever offered or seriously considered by the Suns.

I don't know about that. Usually you don't get a ton of rumors around a guy unless there is something to it. Multiple reports say that team sources have been saying the Suns were dangling Bledsoe.

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports....e-offered-to-knicks-in-package-for-no-4-pick/

"The Suns had talks with the Knicks about dealing the fourth pick for point guard Eric Bledsoe and the No. 13 pick, but Phoenix has not been limited to the Knicks in that regard. The Suns have been dangling Bledsoe in trade offers this offseason and are likely to continue to do so after the draft if Bledsoe is not moved this week, sources confirmed."

I don't know why but it seems like the Suns have no issues with moving Bledsoe. It seems odd considering the pains it took to get him under contract. The only thing I can think of is I remember a report on the radio saying that after they got Knight...the Suns were very high on him and considered it a steal getting him.

I think you could be right about Winslow versus Kaminsky. It's all smoke and mirrors on draft day. LOL.

 

[sunsfan88]

I don't know about that. Usually you don't get a ton of rumors around a guy unless there is something to it. Multiple reports say that team sources have been saying the Suns were dangling Bledsoe.

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports....e-offered-to-knicks-in-package-for-no-4-pick/

"The Suns had talks with the Knicks about dealing the fourth pick for point guard Eric Bledsoe and the No. 13 pick, but Phoenix has not been limited to the Knicks in that regard. The Suns have been dangling Bledsoe in trade offers this offseason and are likely to continue to do so after the draft if Bledsoe is not moved this week, sources confirmed."

I don't know why but it seems like the Suns have no issues with moving Bledsoe. It seems odd considering the pains it took to get him under contract. The only thing I can think of is I remember a report on the radio saying that after they got Knight...the Suns were very high on him and considered it a steal getting him.

I think you could be right about Winslow versus Kaminsky. It's all smoke and mirrors on draft day. LOL.

That doesn't make sense, don't they still want to run their little gimmick 2 combo guard offense? That means they would need both Knight and Bledsoe right?

 

[elindholm]

I don't know about that. Usually you don't get a ton of rumors around a guy unless there is something to it.

There's no evidence of that claim whatsoever.

Multiple reports say that team sources have been saying the Suns were dangling Bledsoe.

They were all quoting each other. This all started when Chad Ford (I think?) was doing an online chat, and a Knicks fan asked whether his team would consider "something like" the #4 for Bledsoe, and Ford said, "Sure, they might consider something like that." That's all there was to it. It blew up into something approaching a "rumor" only because the New York media got excited and ran with it.

 

[Chaz]

I don't know about that. Usually you don't get a ton of rumors around a guy unless there is something to it. Multiple reports say that team sources have been saying the Suns were dangling Bledsoe.

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports....e-offered-to-knicks-in-package-for-no-4-pick/

"The Suns had talks with the Knicks about dealing the fourth pick for point guard Eric Bledsoe and the No. 13 pick, but Phoenix has not been limited to the Knicks in that regard. The Suns have been dangling Bledsoe in trade offers this offseason and are likely to continue to do so after the draft if Bledsoe is not moved this week, sources confirmed."

I don't know why but it seems like the Suns have no issues with moving Bledsoe. It seems odd considering the pains it took to get him under contract. The only thing I can think of is I remember a report on the radio saying that after they got Knight...the Suns were very high on him and considered it a steal getting him.

I think you could be right about Winslow versus Kaminsky. It's all smoke and mirrors on draft day. LOL.

Once speculation turns into rumor you really don't know. Often times it means that other teams want him and are chumming the waters to get the media sharks in a frenzy. Don't believe the hype and start taking it as fact. There is a lot of disinformation especially around the draft.

Believe him or not but MCD was just on the radio and basically backed up my speculation that Bledsoe isn't being shopped. He specifically said "there have been no discussions" and "we aren't looking to move him" and "It would take a lot for us to move Bledsoe".

 

[Covert Rain]

There's no evidence of that claim whatsoever.



They were all quoting each other. This all started when Chad Ford (I think?) was doing an online chat, and a Knicks fan asked whether his team would consider "something like" the #4 for Bledsoe, and Ford said, "Sure, they might consider something like that." That's all there was to it. It blew up into something approaching a "rumor" only because the New York media got excited and ran with it.

Do yo know for a fact they were all following Chad Ford? I don't know how you would even backup that claim. All, I know is Bledsoe's name keeps getting thrown out there.

Regardless, saying that "Phoenix has not been limited to the Knicks in that regard" is a pretty specific statement and doesn't sound like speculation.

Believe him or not but MCD was just on the radio and basically backed up my speculation that Bledsoe isn't being shopped. He specifically said "there have been no discussions" and "we aren't looking to move him" and "It would take a lot for us to move Bledsoe".

That doesn't mean anything. That is exactly what he should say. You don't admit to shopping a guy if everything falls through. That standard front office type stuff. How often have we seen front offices in any sport say something similar only to see the guy shipped off later?

 

[Chaz]

That doesn't mean anything. That is exactly what he should say. You don't admit to shopping a guy if everything falls through. That standard front office type stuff. How often have we seen front offices in any sport say something similar only to see the guy shipped off later?

It is one thing to generally deny shopping him I think saying specifically "there have been no discussions" is a pretty definite statement. But then people tend to look for what backs up what they think already.

I just find it more likely that other teams are looking for cracks by stirring up rumors than the Suns are looking to move him.

 

[Covert Rain]

It is one thing to generally deny shopping him I think saying specifically "there have been no discussions" is a pretty definite statement. But then people tend to look for what backs up what they think already.

I just find it more likely that other teams are looking for cracks by stirring up rumors than the Suns are looking to move him.

So, if they did shop him, you would expect the GM/Ownership to admit it and alienate Bledsoe? Not even the Suns are that dumb.

 

[Chaz]

So, if they did shop him, you would expect the GM/Ownership to admit it and alienate Bledsoe? Not even the Suns are that dumb.

No, I would not expect him to deny the way he did.

 

[KloD]

It is one thing to generally deny shopping him I think saying specifically "there have been no discussions" is a pretty definite statement. But then people tend to look for what backs up what they think already.

I just find it more likely that other teams are looking for cracks by stirring up rumors than the Suns are looking to move him.

Exactly. There are some on this board who believe if something is repeated enough it qualifies as a fact. I saw the same claim on here last night that Bledsoe's name keeps coming up so they MUST be shopping him. I've seen all of one rumor concerning Bledsoe and trade, that same rumor has been passed around to message boards and media, but it does not qualify as many rumors, it's still just one. It was denied by both teams.

Same with the Kaminsky and Suns desire to get him. They may very well have wanted him, but didn't feel he was worth giving much extra for. The price being high does not mean other teams don't value the Suns assets.

It's gotten ridiculous around here the BS that a few spin. Unfortunately, they seem to post more than the rest.

 

[Covert Rain]

No, I would not expect him to deny the way he did.

That's crazy. It serves no purpose to alienate him if it's true. Besides, it's done by countless team and GMs in sports.

 

[Chaz]

That's crazy. It serves no purpose to alienate him if it's true. Besides, it's done by countless team and GMs in sports.

I don't think you are understanding what I am saying. Of course he is going to be PC.

Choice of words is important here and when you are trying to 'read between the lines' sometimes it is more important than the content.

Listen for yourself and see what you think.
It is about 6-7 min in.
http://arizonasports.com/?nid=244&a=313317&p=&n=

 

[Covert Rain]

I don't think you are understanding what I am saying. Of course he is going to be PC.

Choice of words is important here and when you are trying to 'read between the lines' sometimes it is more important than the content.

Listen for yourself and see what you think.
It is about 6-7 min in.
http://arizonasports.com/?nid=244&a=313317&p=&n=

I heard the interview. I always take what Ownerhips/GMs tell the public with a grain of salt. They have PR to maintain and relationships with players. I wouldn't expect anything less.

I liken this to all the years Marion's name came up in trade rumors. The Suns always denied it but there were tons of reports from team insiders in other teams that basically confirmed talks happened.

Back to the thread topic...another article on Booker (sorry if it's been posted). It seems the consensus is that we got a steal.

http://www.nba.com/suns/blog/experts-agree-suns-get-steal-13-devin-booker

 

[elindholm]

Do yo know for a fact they were all following Chad Ford?

No, of course not, but it's by far the most likely explanation.

Regardless, saying that "Phoenix has not been limited to the Knicks in that regard" is a pretty specific statement and doesn't sound like speculation.

That's exactly the same logic that allows urban legends to flourish, because people think that a more-detailed story is somehow more credible.

That doesn't mean anything. That is exactly what he should say. You don't admit to shopping a guy if everything falls through.

True, but the rumors don't mean anything either. Both the rumors and the denials are mere noise, but for some reason you think that there's something behind the rumor-noise and nothing behind the denial-noise. Makes no sense. Noise is noise.

 

[Covert Rain]

Both the rumors and the denials are mere noise, but for some reason you think that there's something behind the rumor-noise and nothing behind the denial-noise. Makes no sense. Noise is noise.

Not at all. I have said repeatedly where there is smoke there is fire. So in another words, I don't necessarily believe every rumor out there just like I don't discount every rumor out there. I think there is SOME truth. It could be the team just simply putting out feelers to see if there was any interest and no formal offers made for all we know. I don't think we will ever know for sure.

 

[JCSunsfan]

If I am the Suns, I say that I was trying to get to number 9 to draft Booker. We were so high on him. And then he fell to us anyway.

Thats the ticket.

As far as the Bledsoe trade stuff goes, the only way for the Suns to stop it all would be to say "We have no interest in trading Eric Bledsoe, period." But they cannot and should not say that. They should be listening to every offer that comes along.

This team is rebuilding and you do not do that by declaring players off limits. Eric has to be a big boy and live with it.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

If I am the Suns, I say that I was trying to get to number 9 to draft Booker. We were so high on him. And then he fell to us anyway.

Thats the ticket.

As far as the Bledsoe trade stuff goes, the only way for the Suns to stop it all would be to say "We have no interest in trading Eric Bledsoe, period." But they cannot and should not say that. They should be listening to every offer that comes along.

This team is rebuilding and you do not do that by declaring players off limits. Eric has to be a big boy and live with it.

I guarantee that they will either completely deny trying to trade up or say that they were trying to move up for Booker specifically.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I guarantee that they will either completely deny trying to trade up or say that they were trying to move up for Booker specifically.

think I read in the republic that Horny already said this... which actually makes him look a little foolish in that they were prepared to give up assets... for a guy they would have gotten anyway.

 

[Covert Rain]

I guarantee that they will either completely deny trying to trade up or say that they were trying to move up for Booker specifically.

It's already happening.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

think I read in the republic that Horny already said this... which actually makes him look a little foolish in that they were prepared to give up assets... for a guy they would have gotten anyway.

I don't know. Booker was projected by many to go in the top 10. Sure looking back now it seems foolish considering he was there at 13, but at the time as long as they didn't give up too much in the process I don't think all that many people would have seen it as a dumb move.

 

[Mainstreet]

If the Suns were trying to trade for the #4 pick they would not have been drafting Kaminsky.

It's hard to know who the Suns were after at #9. If it was Kaminsky, the Celtics and Suns did not lack the assets to get it done.

Since the Celtics could not trade for him either, this blows away the theory the Suns did not have enough assets.