Suns facing tough decisions - By Scott Bordow, Tribune Columnist

[Covert Rain]

I remember both of those guys playing better than Shawn Marion all-around in the playoffs.

Then you remember wrong. Look at their numbers overall in the playoffs. Tim Thomas made some great offensive plays but didn't play defense or rebound. Diaw had a couple really good offensive games but then dissappeared in a few...oh and didn't play defense or rebound.

 

[cly2tw]

Rashard Lewis is better than TT and Marion combined, on offense. So, the rumored Lewis for Marion deal would have a lot more implication than a casual onlooker would have thought.

 

[SactownSunsFan]

Can we turn this into the official "Trade Nash to Spurs for Tim Duncan and Manu Ginobili" thread?

 

[George O'Brien]

Can we turn this into the official "Trade Nash to Spurs for Tim Duncan and Manu Ginobili" thread?

No.

Seriously, I can't see the Suns "dumping" KT and that's more or less what they'd have to do get much cap relief. Considering how getting a big defender was a DEMAND by Amare a year ago, I'd think twice about dumping his hand picked choice.

I know I must sound like a broken record, but the issue with TT is not the first year money, but the length of the contract. The Suns can't afford to give him a long term deal. However, he MIGHT take a one or two year deal to get his big shot at a championship.

A few years ago Payton and Malone took smaller, short term deals with the Lakers on the hope of getting a ring. This year Payton went to the Heat for a one year veteran minimum contract.

Might TT take less money and a one or two year with one year opt out deal to play for the Suns? That's the only way he stays. However, it has the advantage for him that he could make himself worth a lot more next summer if he continues to play well for the Suns.

 

[Cheesebeef]

No.

Seriously, I can't see the Suns "dumping" KT and that's more or less what they'd have to do get much cap relief. Considering how getting a big defender was a DEMAND by Amare a year ago, I'd think twice about dumping his hand picked choice.

I know I must sound like a broken record, but the issue with TT is not the first year money, but the length of the contract. The Suns can't afford to give him a long term deal. However, he MIGHT take a one or two year deal to get his big shot at a championship.

A few years ago Payton and Malone took smaller, short term deals with the Lakers on the hope of getting a ring. This year Payton went to the Heat for a one year veteran minimum contract.

Might TT take less money and a one or two year with one year opt out deal to play for the Suns? That's the only way he stays. However, it has the advantage for him that he could make himself worth a lot more next summer if he continues to play well for the Suns.

There's no reasonable comparison between two guys on their very last legs
taking pay cuts to gravy-train off a team that already won 3 titles (the Lakers) and another team which was one injury away from likely winning another (the Heat last year) and the TT situation. TT is in the PRIME of his career - 29 years old, not in his mid and late 30's, the Suns aren't coming off winning jack squat and considering TT was benched and basically written off before he came to the Suns, his stock will NEVER be higher than it is right now.

But yeah, he might take a one year or two year deal. Come on man.

 

[JCSunsfan]

There's no reasonable comparison between two guys on their very last legs
taking pay cuts to gravy-train off a team that already won 3 titles (the Lakers) and another team which was one injury away from likely winning another (the Heat last year) and the TT situation. TT is in the PRIME of his career - 29 years old, not in his mid and late 30's, the Suns aren't coming off winning jack squat and considering TT was benched and basically written off before he came to the Suns, his stock will NEVER be higher than it is right now.

But yeah, he might take a one year or two year deal. Come on man.

TT's stock was highest on his last deal. He, for contract purposes, is way past his prime. The "potential" luster rubbed off in his last bloated and comparitively unproductive run. Its true that it won't again be higher than it is now, but he'll never be a near max player again.

 

[Cheesebeef]

TT's stock was highest on his last deal. He, for contract purposes, is way past his prime. The "potential" luster rubbed off in his last bloated and comparitively unproductive run. Its true that it won't again be higher than it is now, but he'll never be a near max player again.

oh really? He's NOT going to get MAX money again? Thanks for clearing that up. (note heavy sarcasm noted).

 

[George O'Brien]

There's no reasonable comparison between two guys on their very last legs
taking pay cuts to gravy-train off a team that already won 3 titles (the Lakers) and another team which was one injury away from likely winning another (the Heat last year) and the TT situation. TT is in the PRIME of his career - 29 years old, not in his mid and late 30's, the Suns aren't coming off winning jack squat and considering TT was benched and basically written off before he came to the Suns, his stock will NEVER be higher than it is right now.

But yeah, he might take a one year or two year deal. Come on man.

I'm not sure exactly what his last deal was, but he made $13,975 this past season from the Bulls so I'm guessing it was about $67 million give or take a million. At that level, it is no longer about need or buying things. It's just about ego.

Players look at how much some other guy makes and says, "hey, I'm better than he is. Why should he get more?" When Babe Ruth was asked why should he get more money than the President of the United State, his reply was "I had a better year."

On the other side of the equation - How much does he want to win a title - and not just as a 12th man? His best bet is with the Suns.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I'm not sure exactly what his last deal was, but he made $13,975 this past season from the Bulls so I'm guessing it was about $67 million give or take a million. At that level, it is no longer about need or buying things. It's just about ego.

Players look at how much some other guy makes and says, "hey, I'm better than he is. Why should he get more?" When Babe Ruth was asked why should he get more money than the President of the United State, his reply was "I had a better year."

On the other side of the equation - How much does he want to win a title - and not just as a 12th man? His best bet is with the Suns.

sorry George - but I think you live in a fantasy world regarding athletes that haven't even reached their 30's yet. Especially since you brought up the point on your own that he would only take a one or two year deal in order to get one last big contract - that kind of contradicts what you're saying above.

Guys need to get theirs while they can - a career can end at any moment and there will be a host of teams on the cusp that could offer TT the mid-level - NJ, Spurs, Miami, and on each of those teams he'd be a MAJOR piece, whereas here he's gonna be behind Amare, Diaw, Marion AND KT. Sure a good bench guy, but you think he'd really stay for one year to win a title as nothing more than a role player? Because he certainly won't get the opportunities next year that he got this year.

 

[George O'Brien]

The Spurs and Heat would be an absolutely terrible fit for for TT and he knows it. He's suffered through a career of walk it up offenses and impressed no one.

The Mavs might be a bigger threat and I'm sure Cuban would love to stick it to the Suns. Still, while TT can play at the same time as Amare, I can't see him playing along with Dirk at least with Avery coaching.

On the Suns, TT could get almost 30 minutes a game.

Nash 34
Stoudemire 35
Marion 36
Bell 34
Barbosa 26
KT 24
Diaw 30
TT 29
248

Obviously this requries D'Antoni NOT playing his starters 40 minutes a game, but it is light years more likely than the other contenders could offer.

 

[Cheesebeef]

uh - TT got a MAX contract off playing with a walk-it up offense in Milwaukee George. He had to impress SOMEONE at that point.

And if he's really just going after a title, what does he care about what kind of offense. If he's thinking about his offense and where he'd flourish, then it would seem he's thinking more next contract and considering he'd be 30 or 31 at that point... see where I'm going with this?

 

[F-Dog]

If Tim Thomas is earning 30 mpg (big if), the Suns can afford to pay him Raja Bell money. The problem is that there's fat elsewhere on the salary sheet, but that's not TT's problem, is it?

 

[Cheesebeef]

I personally find it VERY hard to believe TT - if he's back on this team - will be averaging 30 minutes a game - especially considering that without a starting PF and C, the guy only got 1.8 minutes more than that during the post-season. But somehow, with our starting PF and C back, he's only going to lose 2 minutes in PT? I don't think so - especially knowing how much DA likes to go super small.

 

[cly2tw]

Again if Carney was available at #10, I'd hope that Lewis/Marion plus #10/#27 takes place. Then we wouldn't have to resign TT, thus without any problem for the cap.

 

[George O'Brien]

uh - TT got a MAX contract off playing with a walk-it up offense in Milwaukee George. He had to impress SOMEONE at that point.

And if he's really just going after a title, what does he care about what kind of offense. If he's thinking about his offense and where he'd flourish, then it would seem he's thinking more next contract and considering he'd be 30 or 31 at that point... see where I'm going with this?

Around in a circle.

Option 1 - If money is the primary issue, then he'll take a long term MLE deal and go to a crappy team. 2- If money is important and not primary, he might take a one year deal and leverage his success into an even bigger deal next summer. 3 - If winning is of primary important, he'll take a one year deal (or a two with a one year opt out) and then think about it next summer.

Insisting that money is going to be his primary consideration simply ends the discussion but doesn't prove anything.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Insisting that money is going to be his primary consideration simply ends the discussion but doesn't prove anything.

it does in the NBA when you haven't reached 30 yet George and to think otherwise is EXTREME wishful thinking.

 

[Covert Rain]

Some people are making some good points but the mere thought that Tim Thomas is a max contract player is pretty silly. There is no way that guys is worth a max contract in the NBA. I bet he doesn't get a max contract offer from any team. Especially since he tends to dissappear in the rebounding and defense department.

 

[Diamondback Jay]

Some people are making some good points but the mere thought that Tim Thomas is a max contract player is pretty silly. There is no way that guys is worth a max contract in the NBA. I bet he doesn't get a max contract offer from any team. Especially since he tends to dissappear in the rebounding and defense department.

I don't think there's a person on this board, or this planet for that matter, who thinks Tim Thomas is a max contract player.

My opinion-- if he can be re-signed at a moderate price tag, then I'll welcome him back with open arms. He DID hit some clutch shots in the playoffs and bailed the Suns out of the operative ****-storm on a few different occasions.

With that said, if Thomas asks for a dime over 4 million per, and I'm the Suns, I thank him for his service as I'm driving him to Sky Harbor.

 

[Joe Mama]

Offensively Tim Thomas would be just fine playing for San Antonio and/or Miami. Those teams don't run like the Phoenix Suns, but they are hardly Larry Brown, slow the game to a grinding halt teams. More importantly each of those teams has a top big man that would give Tim Thomas open shot after open shot.

Tim Thomas is not going to sign a one-year deal. He's going to sign for at least 3-4 seasons. He might be willing to give the Phoenix Suns a slight price break, but I think that's about the best we can hope for if we want the Suns to keep him.

Joe

 

[Joe Mama]

Around in a circle.

Option 1 - If money is the primary issue, then he'll take a long term MLE deal and go to a crappy team. 2- If money is important and not primary, he might take a one year deal and leverage his success into an even bigger deal next summer. 3 - If winning is of primary important, he'll take a one year deal (or a two with a one year opt out) and then think about it next summer.

Insisting that money is going to be his primary consideration simply ends the discussion but doesn't prove anything.

#4 - Tim Thomas signs a mid-level deal with the team who is a championship contender or maybe even just a good team. That's really who the Phoenix Suns will be bidding against.

Joe

 

[Cheesebeef]

Some people are making some good points but the mere thought that Tim Thomas is a max contract player is pretty silly. There is no way that guys is worth a max contract in the NBA. I bet he doesn't get a max contract offer from any team. Especially since he tends to dissappear in the rebounding and defense department.

okay - this is the 2nd person who is talking about TT getting a MAX contract - can ANYONE tell me why on God's green earth they think a MAX contract has any part in this conversation?

 

[dreamcastrocks]

okay - this is the 2nd person who is talking about TT getting a MAX contract - can ANYONE tell me why on God's green earth they think a MAX contract has any part in this conversation?

Possibly because he already received one?

 

[Cheesebeef]

Possibly because he already received one?

the guy was benched for almost an entire season and no one's heard of him since he signed that deal until he came to the Suns and avergaed 14 point a game - how that all = people talking about him getting MAX is beyond me.

 

[myrondizzo]

there is probably some confusion about the mle being a max deal. i was confused a couple years ago. but just to clear things up mle=mid level exception

 

[nowagimp]

#4 - Tim Thomas signs a mid-level deal with the team who is a championship contender or maybe even just a good team. That's really who the Phoenix Suns will be bidding against.

Joe

I agree with you Joe. TT will sign for not more than 5 mil/yr for 2-4 yrs with any of these teams: Spurs, Clippers(he's better than Radmonivic), Mavericks, Heat, or the suns. He would probably would get the most minutes with the Spurs(no Nazr or Rasho and Horry is too old). Because of a weak FA market and a lack of quality bigs in the draft, TT will be in demand at 5 mil/yr. I do know that I dont want to see him standing alone at the three point line playing against the suns. I also think he is a matchup problem on the low block for most if not all SF's in the NBA.