Suns fire McD

[Superbone]

You can ALWAYS just pick up one of those. Ask McD!

A Durant Suns jersey? Sure, I think they'll let you put whatever name you want on a custom Suns jersey.

 

[slinslin]

Ayton
Durant
A version of Bridges where he is a stud SF
Booker

...

...

Without a good point guard that is probably a 21 win team.

?!?
More like 61 win team, that team needs no PG.

 

[AzStevenCal]

?!?
More like 61 win team, that team needs no PG.

I'm pretty sure he was poking fun at the poster who keeps saying we won't win 21 games this season if we don't bring in a competent point guard.

 

[JCSunsfan]

So. Why did McD get fired now. I have been floating ideas. Here is what I think is most likely.

McD was working on deals for a pg. He probably had something worked out—maybe for Rozier. So he pulled the trigger on sending BK to Houston. He then goes back to Ainge or whoever it was and the price had gone up because we now didn’t have a starting pg. So now we can’t do the deal and our season is screwed without giving up major assets (2019 unprotected pick).

Igor explodes and Sarver says I have had enough.

The Houston trade got McD fired.

 

[1Sun]

So. Why did McD get fired now. I have been floating ideas. Here is what I think is most likely.

McD was working on deals for a pg. He probably had something worked out—maybe for Rozier. So he pulled the trigger on sending BK to Houston. He then goes back to Ainge or whoever it was and the price had gone up because we now didn’t have a starting pg. So now we can’t do the deal and our season is screwed without giving up major assets (2019 unprotected pick).

Igor explodes and Sarver says I have had enough.

The Houston trade got McD fired.

That would make sense, except that if this were the case, shouldn't McD been fired at the start of the preseason at the latest? I think that your theory is good, except that I would add the clincher of how awful the team looked in preseason and how obvious it was that the lack of a point guard was the primary reason for it.

 

[Mainstreet]

So. Why did McD get fired now. I have been floating ideas. Here is what I think is most likely.

McD was working on deals for a pg. He probably had something worked out—maybe for Rozier. So he pulled the trigger on sending BK to Houston. He then goes back to Ainge or whoever it was and the price had gone up because we now didn’t have a starting pg. So now we can’t do the deal and our season is screwed without giving up major assets (2019 unprotected pick).

Igor explodes and Sarver says I have had enough.

The Houston trade got McD fired.

I think not having a point guard was the immediate downfall of McDonough as the Suns GM. The bigger issue IMO is his inability to draft well and bring in better free agents.

I will not go through the list of drafted failures but one can easily see the holes where the Suns had to bring in older players to fill needs such as Anderson, Ariza and Crawford. And Ariza and Anderson could be starters. Conceivably Crawford could start as well but I think the Suns will bring him off the bench.

 

[AzStevenCal]

At this point I don't know if it really matters why McD was fired. I wasn't on the fire-him bandwagon but I've harbored serious doubts about him ever since the Dragic situation. Regardless of why, it's clear there were several fireable skeletons in his closet. I'm hopeful about the new regime but it will be awhile before we learn whether we solved a problem or prolonged one.

 

[Phrazbit]

At this point I don't know if it really matters why McD was fired. I wasn't on the fire-him bandwagon but I've harbored serious doubts about him ever since the Dragic situation. Regardless of why, it's clear there were several fireable skeletons in his closet. I'm hopeful about the new regime but it will be awhile before we learn whether we solved a problem or prolonged one.

To me it's more about Sarver. McD got fired, fine, but when there are people like Woj, who's reports tend to be accurate and Gambo, who's been one of Robert's defenders for years, are talking about what a mess it is... it's very concerning.

 

[JCSunsfan]

To me it's more about Sarver. McD got fired, fine, but when there are people like Woj, who's reports tend to be accurate and Gambo, who's been one of Robert's defenders for years, are talking about what a mess it is... it's very concerning.

I guess. The players don’t complain about Sarver, they complained about McD. The biggest complaints about Sarver almost all be traced back to Amin. He is not the greatest owner, but I think the negatives are exaggerated

 

[AzStevenCal]

To me it's more about Sarver. McD got fired, fine, but when there are people like Woj, who's reports tend to be accurate and Gambo, who's been one of Robert's defenders for years, are talking about what a mess it is... it's very concerning.

Maybe. I really don't know. It probably wasn't clear but that's why I ended my post with "it will be awhile before we learn whether we solved a problem or prolonged one".

 

[Cheesebeef]

I guess. The players don’t complain about Sarver, they complained about McD. The biggest complaints about Sarver almost all be traced back to Amin. He is not the greatest owner, but I think the negatives are exaggerated

THIS IS HORSE-ISH.

Sarver was got HAMMERED since his first season for balking at JJ's deal, the ridiculous chicken dance, selling draft picks, forcing the KT trade, not giving anyone raises after the 2010 WCF appearance and in fact asking for people in the FO to take a pay CUT, to his ridiculous GM'ing the following season and all that crap talked about him during the lockout.

ALL of that was pre-Amin.

I've tried to stay out of the new narrative that a lot of you have done, going complete 180 from defending McD every time I criticized him to now making him THE source ALL of our woes, but that statement above is completely baseless.

And even if all of our problems WERE BECAUSE of McD... guess what? The buck STILL STOPS with Sarver who keeps hiring completely unqualified GMs because they're dirt cheap. Which is EXACTLY what it looks like the plan is AGAIN with James Jones. Through 7 coaches and 5 GMs, there is ONE constant and that constant has been raked over the coals before, during and after EVERY regime at this point (including right now according to Woj/Gambo) That is STILL on Sarver.

 

[Chaplin]

THIS IS HORSE-ISH.

Sarver was got HAMMERED since his first season for balking at JJ's deal, the ridiculous chicken dance, selling draft picks, forcing the KT trade, not giving anyone raises after the 2010 WCF appearance and in fact asking for people in the FO to take a pay CUT, to his ridiculous GM'ing the following season and all that crap talked about him during the lockout.

ALL of that was pre-Amin.

I've tried to stay out of the new narrative that a lot of you have done, going complete 180 from defending McD every time I criticized him to now making him THE source ALL of our woes, but that statement above is completely baseless.

And even if all of our problems WERE BECAUSE of McD... guess what? The buck STILL STOPS with Sarver who keeps hiring completely unqualified GMs because they're dirt cheap. Which is EXACTLY what it looks like the plan is AGAIN with James Jones. Through 7 coaches and 5 GMs, there is ONE constant and that constant has been raked over the coals before, during and after EVERY regime at this point (including right now according to Woj/Gambo) That is STILL on Sarver.

Just one correction—Sarver was NOT hammered for hiring McD, nor during McD’s 5-year tenure, unless you want to count those people that blamed him for everything wrong Ryan did but was never praised for what McD did right.

 

[JCSunsfan]

THIS IS HORSE-ISH.

Sarver was got HAMMERED since his first season for balking at JJ's deal, the ridiculous chicken dance, selling draft picks, forcing the KT trade, not giving anyone raises after the 2010 WCF appearance and in fact asking for people in the FO to take a pay CUT, to his ridiculous GM'ing the following season and all that crap talked about him during the lockout.

ALL of that was pre-Amin.

I've tried to stay out of the new narrative that a lot of you have done, going complete 180 from defending McD every time I criticized him to now making him THE source ALL of our woes, but that statement above is completely baseless.

And even if all of our problems WERE BECAUSE of McD... guess what? The buck STILL STOPS with Sarver who keeps hiring completely unqualified GMs because they're dirt cheap. Which is EXACTLY what it looks like the plan is AGAIN with James Jones. Through 7 coaches and 5 GMs, there is ONE constant and that constant has been raked over the coals before, during and after EVERY regime at this point (including right now according to Woj/Gambo) That is STILL on Sarver.

Um. I just think a lot of the recent stuff is exaggerated. I have no argument with the things you mention when he first bought the team.

You are right. I defended McD. Not sure I would have fired him. But I am not going to jump off a cliff now either .

 

[95pro]

Just one correction—Sarver was NOT hammered for hiring McD, nor during McD’s 5-year tenure, unless you want to count those people that blamed him for everything wrong Ryan did but was never praised for what McD did right.

I think because the wrong outweighs the right.

 

[Yuma]

Sarver is the owner. We aren't going to change that. Doesn't mean he is not above criticism. I get that.
The JJ thing was tough because we were at a turning point for the organization. JJ showed promise, but not quite the aggressiveness, or talent to make the big new contract a sure thing. It was gut check time. Give JJ big money and possibly not be able to pay one of our big pieces later. A possible first championship hung in the balance. Sarver made the assessment JJ wouldn't pan out like we needed and let him go. JJ has had a nice career. Not a great one. After watching him all these years, who knows if JJ would have helped us get a championship, but he didn't exactly become a household name either.
Sarver also got involved with Amare and his knees. It seemed like Sarver came out better on that call. Nash, we got ALL we could get out of Nash. It was perfect timing when we let him go. Sarver has been fairly shrewd, imho in a few cases where it was said he had the last say in the decision.
I also agree that McD was his call employing him as long as he did.
It just seems, when Sarver is wrong everyone is on his back. When he is right, no one seems to acknowledge that. The thing with the foam finger that got in everyone's craw I just have never understood. NFL owners do dances when their teams get to the Super Bowl and no one cares. Our owner waives a foam finger and everyone freaks out. I have seen Cuban go on the floor and blast referees during games. Yet it seems he is not as derided as our owner.
Sarver could have refused to give Booker his big payday. He approved it. He should get credit for that. Yet I have not heard anything about that.
Sarver is not the devil, and he's not an angel. I try and look fairly at what he's done right as well as what he's done wrong. It just seems whenever anything happens it's Sarver's fault.

 

[Chaplin]

I think because the wrong outweighs the right.

Previous to the 5 McD years? Absolutely.

 

[Mainstreet]

Here is why McDonough was fired in a nutshell if there are any lingering doubts.

If anything Sarver kept McDonough too long.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

Let's hope Josh Jackson turns into the player we hope he will be.

 

[Yuma]

Here is why McDonough was fired in a nutshell if there are any lingering doubts.

If anything Sarver kept McDonough too long.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

Let's hope Josh Jackson turns into the player we hope he will be.

Let's do! I see enough agressiveness from him that I am good with that. He is at his best when he slows a bit and plays within himself. Let's hope that he gets the rythm going.

 

[Folster]

McD sure fooled Ainge into taking Tatum and allowing Jackson to fall to us.

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[JCSunsfan]

McD sure fooled Ainge into taking Tatum and allowing Jackson to fall to us.

You must be registered for see images attach

What goes around comes around.

There is a lesson in all of this. In all of the draft hype--speed, athleticism, length etc, its important to remember that actual skills matter too.

 

[Phrazbit]

What goes around comes around.

There is a lesson in all of this. In all of the draft hype--speed, athleticism, length etc, its important to remember that actual skills matter too.

It's funny, his best 2 selections, Warren and Booker, were taken mid round and (even though I'm not Warren's biggest cheerleader) they both would go way higher if those drafts were redone and both those guys are not uber athletes, but instead, crafty, skilled players. With higher picks he went for home runs, guys with massive holes in their games but dudes who "look" like they could be good.

I know a lot of people don't want to give him credit for those picks and act as though they were obvious selections... but there are no obvious selections after the first few picks and I remember the Booker pick being shredded by many when it happened.

He showed great prowess in mid round selections and I think he's good at managing the cap and I think he's good at negotiating trades. However, he had to make many of his trades from a terrible negotiating position because of how badly the water was poisoned with the players he sent off. The Len pick stunk, but virtually that entire draft sucked.

Three things killed McD.

He treated his roster like fantasy sports. Players feeling slighted because they had competition for minutes or roles they thought they deserved.

The Bender/Chriss draft was an unmitigated disaster. We gave up a lot of draft capital for a useless player and one we essentially gave away.

The Brandon Knight situation. What happened with Dragic happens a lot and I think as far as the Dragic part went, McD handled it fine, but knee jerking into trading for Knight, over paying in terms of assets, giving him that contract, having him play like complete trash and then get hurt... everything Knight was a dumpster fire for McD.

If McD takes a few years as an assistant GM again, maybe takes part in a team hitting a few homers in the draft. I could see him getting another GM job down the road and becoming a really good one. Sadly for us, he seemingly wasn't ready for the role. (cough... James Jones... cough cough).



But... if Booker and Ayton lead us to titles... I think everyone will look back on him fondly.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Here is why McDonough was fired in a nutshell if there are any lingering doubts.

If anything Sarver kept McDonough too long.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

Let's hope Josh Jackson turns into the player we hope he will be.

Yeah that’s pretty damning. Six selections, three in the top 10, should propel a franchise forward. To net one still developing player from that is just piss poor.

 

[Mainstreet]

Let's do! I see enough agressiveness from him that I am good with that. He is at his best when he slows a bit and plays within himself. Let's hope that he gets the rythm going.

Lets hope Jackson develops. He could be the needed third cog alongside Booker and Ayton. With the Suns inability to attract top free agents it really needs to happen.

 

[JCSunsfan]

It's funny, his best 2 selections, Warren and Booker, were taken mid round and (even though I'm not Warren's biggest cheerleader) they both would go way higher if those drafts were redone and both those guys are not uber athletes, but instead, crafty, skilled players. With higher picks he went for home runs, guys with massive holes in their games but dudes who "look" like they could be good.

I know a lot of people don't want to give him credit for those picks and act as though they were obvious selections... but there are no obvious selections after the first few picks and I remember the Booker pick being shredded by many when it happened.

He showed great prowess in mid round selections and I think he's good at managing the cap and I think he's good at negotiating trades. However, he had to make many of his trades from a terrible negotiating position because of how badly the water was poisoned with the players he sent off. The Len pick stunk, but virtually that entire draft sucked.

Three things killed McD.

He treated his roster like fantasy sports. Players feeling slighted because they had competition for minutes or roles they thought they deserved.

The Bender/Chriss draft was an unmitigated disaster. We gave up a lot of draft capital for a useless player and one we essentially gave away.

The Brandon Knight situation. What happened with Dragic happens a lot and I think as far as the Dragic part went, McD handled it fine, but knee jerking into trading for Knight, over paying in terms of assets, giving him that contract, having him play like complete trash and then get hurt... everything Knight was a dumpster fire for McD.

If McD takes a few years as an assistant GM again, maybe takes part in a team hitting a few homers in the draft. I could see him getting another GM job down the road and becoming a really good one. Sadly for us, he seemingly wasn't ready for the role. (cough... James Jones... cough cough).



But... if Booker and Ayton lead us to titles... I think everyone will look back on him fondly.

I agree with most of this. I don't think he knee-jerked into a trade for Knight though. I think he genuinely thought Knight would be very good.

 

[Mainstreet]

Yeah that’s pretty damning. Six selections, three in the top 10, should propel a franchise forward. To net one still developing player from that is just piss poor.

This past summer really opened my eyes. The Suns failed to fix important holes on their roster with the draft and free agency. McDonough had too many misses.

The realization sunk in when the Suns had to go outside to find likely starters in Ariza and Anderson. Then they had to scrape together to find a point guard that could start. It's like after 5 years... wham.