Suns Free Agent Mini Camp

[Mulli]

Williams seems like this guy:

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[JCSunsfan]

Williams seems like this guy:

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I can see that, with the length and shot blocking, long arms too. Williams looks a little more mobile and a little more skilled.

 

[Mulli]

I can see that, with the length and shot blocking, long arms too. Williams looks a little more mobile and a little more skilled.

Seems like that to me as well.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Dumas had a terrific outside shot and more tricks than a New Orleans lady. They run kind of similar though. Dumas also was about 6'7 so the length is very different as well. Hope he's not like Stromile Swift though, I can see the comparison.

If we can turn Warrick, Pietrus and Chilldress into a solid SG and sign this Sean Williams cat then that would be a big improvement from where we are now. We're fine with Dudley, Hill and X at the SG and SF. Maybe pick up Edgar Sosa also?

The best option in free agency is probably JRich. I wonder if Orlando would do a sign and trade. Peaches and Warrick.

Right now, we have too many players. Too many backups and not enough starters. We need a deadeye shooter and scorer at the 2. Some D would be nice but the O is probably more important.

If this Williams kid's head is screwed on straight now, he is more of center than anything. Word is that he is 6-10 with a 7-5 wingspan. The vid looks like he is. He also has some hops, a defensive mindset and is a good rebounder. If he sticks, he definitely could move Lopez to the 3rd center. That means trading pieces of Lopez, Childress, Warrick, Pietrus, Lawal, and even Morris are all available to come up with a backup pg (if no Aaron Brooks) and a sg.

 

[Folster]

The best option in free agency is probably JRich. I wonder if Orlando would do a sign and trade. Peaches and Warrick.

Right now, we have too many players. Too many backups and not enough starters. We need a deadeye shooter and scorer at the 2. Some D would be nice but the O is probably more important.

If this Williams kid's head is screwed on straight now, he is more of center than anything. Word is that he is 6-10 with a 7-5 wingspan. The vid looks like he is. He also has some hops, a defensive mindset and is a good rebounder. If he sticks, he definitely could move Lopez to the 3rd center. That means trading pieces of Lopez, Childress, Warrick, Pietrus, Lawal, and even Morris are all available to come up with a backup pg (if no Aaron Brooks) and a sg.

I'd try to package Warrick with Lopez to a team in need of a center. Maybe we could land a young 2 with upside like Gerald Henderson, Jordan Crawford, or Brandon Rush in return. Warrick doesn't have a place on this team with the drafting of Morris. If Williams beats the odds and makes the team, Warrick will lose even more favor.

I'm not getting the Hunter comparison outside of the shot blocking. Hunter sucked.

 

[Mulli]

I'd try to package Warrick with Lopez to a team in need of a center. Maybe we could land a young 2 with upside like Gerald Henderson, Jordan Crawford, or Brandon Rush in return. Warrick doesn't have a place on this team with the drafting of Morris. If Williams beats the odds and makes the team, Warrick will lose even more favor.

I'm not getting the Hunter comparison outside of the shot blocking. Hunter sucked.

Williams averages 4.3 points per game and 3.5 rebounds per game. So he as to show more to rise about the level of suckage.

 

[Joe Mama]

I love it...we won't give a guy like Beasley a shot because of character issues, then bring in Sean Williams. Precious.

I know you've been arguing this with JC, but I don't get this comparison at all. The reason they are giving Williams a shot in a free-agent minicamp is because supposedly he has already turned himself around. When Minnesota traded for Beasley people were still concerned about Beasley's character issues. Not to mention there is a huge difference between inviting somebody to a free-agent minicamp and trading multiple second round draft picks (that we didn't have anyways) as well as absorbing his $5 million contract. Williams is also a long, 6-10 PF/C. Beasley is a tweaner.

Now if you want to say that they should have looked past the character issues and found a way to get Beasley instead of spending the money on Hakim Warrick and Josh Childress I won't argue with you there.

Joe

 

[JCSunsfan]

I know you've been arguing this with JC, but I don't get this comparison at all. The reason they are giving Williams a shot in a free-agent minicamp is because supposedly he has already turned himself around. When Minnesota traded for Beasley people were still concerned about Beasley's character issues. Not to mention there is a huge difference between inviting somebody to a free-agent minicamp and trading multiple second round draft picks (that we didn't have anyways) as well as absorbing his $5 million contract. Williams is also a long, 6-10 PF/C. Beasley is a tweaner.

Now if you want to say that they should have looked past the character issues and found a way to get Beasley instead of spending the money on Hakim Warrick and Josh Childress I won't argue with you there.

Joe

I think that is it. We were really talking about two different things.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

I know you've been arguing this with JC, but I don't get this comparison at all.

Now it may not be a perfect analogy, but not getting it at all? They're two players who have bad reputations around the league, Williams having been involved in much worse incidents to the point that he's been released.

Further, already turned himself around? It's as much hearsay with Williams as it is with Beasley. Last I heard, Beasley was never kicked off of a team, and didn't get arrested for assault.

Bottom line is, I'm fine with giving either guy a shot, but it seems somewhat hypocritical to pass on a guy like Beasley and then bring in a guy like Williams.

trading multiple second round draft picks (that we didn't have anyways) as well as absorbing his $5 million contract.

Again, finding compensation like a couple 2nd rounders or the equivalent is a pretty low bar. Considering his age and contribution levels this far, both the compensation for Beasley and the trade seem minimal.

Williams is also a long, 6-10 PF/C. Beasley is a tweaner.

Ha, Williams has also averaged an impressive 4 points and 15 minutes per game in 3 NBA seasons.

Not sure where you get that Beasley is a tweener. His natural position is at the 4, and he is definitely best there. He's certainly not a superstar, and could definitely be a better defender/rebounder, but he's also only making 5 million per year and can actually create his own shot.

Now if you want to say that they should have looked past the character issues and found a way to get Beasley instead of spending the money on Hakim Warrick and Josh Childress I won't argue with you there.

Essentially, yes.

 

[Folster]

More mini-camp info from Coro including other invitees:

Suns mini-camp morsels
Phoenix Suns update:
Here are a few items gathered from today's Suns mini-camp:
* Some of the mini-camp's 15 participants who were not mentioned in Tuesday's blog included Iowa State point guard Diante Garrett, Georgetown point guard Chris Wright and Virginia Tech power forward Jeff Allen, was the ACC's second-leading rebounder at 6 feet 7. There were also D-League standouts Tasmin Mitchell and Jerel McNeal. Mitchell, from LSU, was an Erie small forward while McNeal, from Marquette was a Rio Grande Valley shooting guard who got a call-up to New Orleans last season.
* Sean Williams, the lone NBA veteran of the bunch, gave a positive review of Suns draft pick Markieff Morris after going against him at Wednesday's mini-camp. He said, "He's nice. He's got a nice big body and build to him and knows how to use it. He's going to be successful with big Bill (Cartwright, who coached Williams in New Jersey) teaching him the ins and outs of the game. He's going to be successful."
There will be more on Williams' comeback attempt posted in an article later.
* Gentry on Morris: "I’m ecstatic. He made a few plays out there. Obviously, nobody’s in game shape. And as we talked about, I bet he’s probably traveled 25,000 miles in the last month or so. To think he’s going to be in great basketball shape is unrealistic but you can see the skill level he has and the desire he has to be good."
* Gentry said he expects to make his defensive assistant hire by the middle of next week. With the lockout, that will be too late for the coach to talk to Suns players. The top candidates are San Antonio assistant Don Newman, former Houston assistant Elston Turner, Chicago scout Pete Myers and Milwaukee assistant Jim Boylan.
* Gentry said Marcin Gortat and Garret Siler worked out with Hall of Fame center Hakeem Olajuwon for three to three and a half hours per day in Houston over five days. The Suns paid for the workouts, again slipping it in before the lockout hits.
"They feel like it was one of the best things that ever happened to them in basketball," Gentry said.
* At the mini-camp, Gentry said he took notice of Butler 6-foot-8 power forward Matt Howard, who had worked out for the Suns before the draft also.
"Matt Howard is one of those smart, smart players," Gentry said. "I think eventually somewhere along the line he’ll find his way into the league. He’s just so smart about what he does. He’s a good shooter and a real cerebral player. I thought he stood out some."

 

[Griffin]

I just looked at my 2007 draft list and I had Williams ranked at 26 just behind Tucker. I think the Nets reached for him that year, because he was probably projected to be drafted around ten picks later. So while it's easy to assume that his off-court problems led to his brief NBA career so far, it could also be that he's just not that good. Tucker had no off-court problems AFAIK, but his NBA career did not last much longer.

Btw, the Suns did not work out Williams that year, but then again, they ended up drafting Tucker, so that doesn't say much.

 

[slinslin]

Williams only ranked that low because of off-court problems.

 

[Mainstreet]

I just looked at my 2007 draft list and I had Williams ranked at 26 just behind Tucker. I think the Nets reached for him that year, because he was probably projected to be drafted around ten picks later. So while it's easy to assume that his off-court problems led to his brief NBA career so far, it could also be that he's just not that good. Tucker had no off-court problems AFAIK, but his NBA career did not last much longer.

Btw, the Suns did not work out Williams that year, but then again, they ended up drafting Tucker, so that doesn't say much.

Tucker was a terrible pick. It seems like he was almost an after thought. It's like the Suns did not do their scouting. He did not have NBA talent. I believe Williams has NBA talent but it's the other question marks that has held him back.

 

[Errntknght]

Tucker was a terrible pick. It seems like he was almost an after thought. It's like the Suns did not do their scouting. He did not have NBA talent. I believe Williams has NBA talent but it's the other question marks that has held him back.

Can anyone remember a draft pick besides Barbosa that amounted to anything under D'Antoni? (Not counting the draft picks we made for other teams, of course.) The draft years for him were 2003 through 2007... yeah, I know, it seemed much longer than five years.

 

[SirStefan32]

I hope they sign Williams. If it doesn't work out, they can always waive him.

 

[Mainstreet]

Can anyone remember a draft pick besides Barbosa that amounted to anything under D'Antoni? (Not counting the draft picks we made for other teams, of course.) The draft years for him were 2003 through 2007... yeah, I know, it seemed much longer than five years.

Have the Suns done much better post D'Antoni? The problem is the Suns have not kept many of their picks in an effort to save money and they are not good at drafting. I think Sarver is a key link in the Suns not keeping their picks although lots of fans like to put a ribbon on it and just blame D'Antoni.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

More mini-camp info from Coro including other invitees:

Matt Howard. Noooooooooooooooo!

 

[Errntknght]

Have the Suns done much better post D'Antoni? The problem is the Suns have not kept many of their picks in an effort to save money and they are not good at drafting. I think Sarver is a key link in the Suns not keeping their picks although lots of fans like to put a ribbon on it and just blame D'Antoni.

We haven't sold any draft picks since D'A left, so that confirms what most of thought - the picks were sold because Mike couldn't be bothered with rookies. I think his 'legacy' is still hurting us - in form of a poor draft crew.

Sarver gets some of blame, for letting Mike have his way - perhaps over the objection of the GM. Also for saving a few bucks when he made or let Mike be the GM.

 

[Griffin]

We haven't sold any draft picks since D'A left, so that confirms what most of thought - the picks were sold because Mike couldn't be bothered with rookies

Or could it be that we haven't sold any picks since then because we haven't been in the LT territory since then?

D'Antoni had no problem playing and even starting a rookie for NY last year, a second-round pick at that. On the other hand, Earl Clark was one of the least used first-round rookies under Gentry a year ago.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Or could it be that we haven't sold any picks since then because we haven't been in the LT territory since then?

D'Antoni had no problem playing and even starting a rookie for NY last year, a second-round pick at that. On the other hand, Earl Clark was one of the least used first-round rookies under Gentry a year ago.

New York drafted a mature, smart, highly regarded college player and played him. We drafted a guy based solely on his athleticism - a guy noted for making poor decisions on the court. It's tough to compare the two situations. Also, Dantoni doesn't have the same power in New York that he had in Phoenix (following the first year with Nash). And, Mike isn't an idiot, he probably has (finally) learned that the longer NBA season forces a deeper bench.

Steve

 

[Griffin]

New York drafted a mature, smart, highly regarded college player and played him. We drafted a guy based solely on his athleticism - a guy noted for making poor decisions on the court. It's tough to compare the two situations. Also, Dantoni doesn't have the same power in New York that he had in Phoenix (following the first year with Nash). And, Mike isn't an idiot, he probably has (finally) learned that the longer NBA season forces a deeper bench.

All that may very well be true, but my main point was that the Suns haven't been selling picks lately primary because they are no longer at or above LT, not because they have a different coach. Also, D'Antoni is not being asked to deliver a title immediately in NY, at least not last year, so he could afford to play and develop rookies.

A coach doesn't benefit from selling a pick, neither does a GM. Both may prefer a veteran to a rookie, especially if a team is in a "win now or be damned" mode. Both would much rather trade that pick for a veteran or future assets than to sell it, especially a good GM would. Only the ownership stands to gain anything from selling a pick.

 

[AzStevenCal]

All that may very well be true, but my main point was that the Suns haven't been selling picks lately primary because they are no longer at or above LT, not because they have a different coach. Also, D'Antoni is not being asked to deliver a title immediately in NY, at least not last year, so he could afford to play and develop rookies.

A coach doesn't benefit from selling a pick, neither does a GM. Both may prefer a veteran to a rookie, especially if a team is in a "win now or be damned" mode. Both would much rather trade that pick for a veteran or future assets than to sell it, especially a good GM would. Only the ownership stands to gain anything from selling a pick.

That's a valid point but if you have a headstrong coach that is convinced his system (7 vets playing all the important minutes) will work it could very well open the door for this type of move.

Steve

 

[JCSunsfan]

That's a valid point but if you have a headstrong coach that is convinced his system (7 vets playing all the important minutes) will work it could very well open the door for this type of move.

Steve

Yup. If my coach isnt going to use him. Why draft him. Sign someone for the subsidized vet min who has a chance to get some burn.

 

[JCSunsfan]

That's a valid point but if you have a headstrong coach that is convinced his system (7 vets playing all the important minutes) will work it could very well open the door for this type of move.

Steve

Yup. If my coach isnt going to use him. Why draft him. Sign someone for the subsidized vet min who has a chance to get some burn. What else are going to do with a pick you dont want? Cut the rookie? If that is all you intend,might as well sell the pick. Dantoni is the main villian.

 

[Griffin]

What else are going to do with a pick you dont want?

Let's see. How about package the pick in a trade to get a veteran player? Or trade the pick for a future pick so you have something to rebuild with when the window closes?