Suns @ Grizzlies 1-10-14

[sunsfan88]

Frye shot 4-15 from the field while shooting 2-10 from 3.

I don't understand, when his 3 isn't falling why does he keep forcing it? Why not post up inside and drive to the rim and get easier shots? He's shown he's capable of doing that.

God he pisses me off so much cause he isn't a young player. He has NO EXCUSE to act like an idiot. When the "veteran" of the team acts like an idiot, the rest of the team acts like an idiot and just keeps chucking as well instead of driving it in.

 

[sunsfan88]

Yes, the voice of a champion. How many rings did he win? The three point shot is here to stay, Charles is a dinosaur. You need more than the three point shot but it isn't as simple as you and he make it out to be.

Steve

How many rings have the Suns won by chucking up 3s for the past 14 years or more?

Slow, half court teams have won way more titles than fast break, 3pt chucking teams. That's not my opinion, that's a fact.

The only jump shooting team that's won a title in the past 20 years is the Mavs in 2011.

 

[SirStefan32]

Dragic's always been a terrible defender. I have said it before, opposing PGs lit us up last season with Dragic guarding them.

What's the point of having PJ Tucker if we can't put him on the opposing PG who's lighting us up? Dragic should have never been guarding Conley, should have been Tucker.

Dragic is not a terrible defender. He is an average to good defender who has trouble with smaller, faster PGs. Other than that, I agree- Tucker should have been on Conley.

 

[SirStefan32]

Yes, the voice of a champion. How many rings did he win? The three point shot is here to stay, Charles is a dinosaur. You need more than the three point shot but it isn't as simple as you and he make it out to be.

Steve

I think he is spot-on! If 3 isn't falling, the Suns are useless. I blame Hornacek, really- he is telling them it is OK to take bad shots.

 

[sunsfan88]

Dragic is not a terrible defender. He is an average to good defender who has trouble with smaller, faster PGs. Other than that, I agree- Tucker should have been on Conley.

Dragic when guarding PGs is a terrible defender. I'm sorry, but I have spend time paying close attention to Dragic on the defensive end many times. He terrible in terms of fighting through screens and his lateral quickness looks like a joke when guarding PGs.

However, when guarding SGs, Dragic is fine. He plays the passing lane very well and does a good job of staying in front of the player too.

 

[sunsfan88]

Also, why do we keep running isos for the twins?

Whenever one of them gets the ball, everyone else suddenly stands still and just watches them try to do something. Are the twins wearing Kobe jerseys or something?

They will never in their life be good iso ball players. Hornacek needs to put guys on the court who are going to be running and running cuts and backdoor cuts in the half court offense.

I hate to say it but our half court offense last season looks better than our half court offense this season.

 

[sunsfan88]

And Hornacek, for the love of God when Plumlee gets into foul trouble DO NOT BRING IN KIEFF. KIEFF IS NOT A CENTER ESPECIALLY NOT AGAINST BIG PHYSICAL TEAMS LIKE MEMPHIS.

Len or Crapsov are better options than Kieff. Kieff and Frye on the court at the same time is like saying daring the opposing team to drive to the paint. Its almost mocking the other team cause its us telling them that they can't drive on us by putting 2 of the worst shot blockers in the league in the game.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I think he is spot-on! If 3 isn't falling, the Suns are useless. I blame Hornacek, really- he is telling them it is OK to take bad shots.

You blame Hornacek? Really? Have you looked at our roster? We're missing, IMO, our best player (for 9 games now?) and yet we have a 21 - 14 record. I don't blame Hornacek, I credit him. We don't match up well with the more physical teams and Memphis, Sacramento, Brooklyn and Chicago have proven that point to the tune of 7 losses already. We could have ditched the threes and tried to play like a more traditional team. Instead of being near the top in fast break points and three point shots we could lead the league in turnovers and blocked shots against and be sitting here with 6 or 7 wins.

Steve

 

[sunsfan88]

Wait so we lost to Memphis cause they are too big and physical right? Guess who we play tomorrow

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[AzStevenCal]

Wait so we lost to Memphis cause they are too big and physical right? Guess who we play tomorrow

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And we may lose to them too. Should I get the Suicide Hot Line phone number for you?

Steve

 

[SirStefan32]

You blame Hornacek? Really? Have you looked at our roster? We're missing, IMO, our best player (for 9 games now?) and yet we have a 21 - 14 record. I don't blame Hornacek, I credit him. We don't match up well with the more physical teams and Memphis, Sacramento, Brooklyn and Chicago have proven that point to the tune of 7 losses already. We could have ditched the threes and tried to play like a more traditional team. Instead of being near the top in fast break points and three point shots we could lead the league in turnovers and blocked shots against and be sitting here with 6 or 7 wins.

Steve

Yes, I do blame the coach. As a leader, you have to hold people accountable. You don't shoot 13 threes in the fourth quarter, or 10 in the third quarter when they are not falling.

Drop the "abandon the three and stop running" fallacy- nobody is advocating the Suns to not shoot threes and not run. I am advocating for having common sense and holding guys who take bad shots accountable for their actions. Nine three point attempts in the first half- the Suns are up. 23 in the second, the Suns lose.

http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/shotchart?gameId=400489407

Of course we can't compete with tougher teams- because they are tough and drive to the hoop, get to the free throw line, post up, while Green, Frye, and the Morris twins jack up 20-30 bad shots every night.

Drive to the basket!

EDIT:
Yes, I would be perfectly fine with 6 or 7 wins the whole season as long as they were playing the right way. Sign me up for 6 wins and a top 3 pick over 60 wins, crappy pick, and a first round exit.

 

[SirStefan32]

And we may lose to them too.

Steve

Of course we will lose to them unless it's an "on" night for the four idiots and they make some threes. God knows neither one of them is going to take the ball to the hoop.

 

[ProdigalSun]

EDIT:
Yes, I would be perfectly fine with 6 or 7 wins the whole season as long as they were playing the right way. Sign me up for 6 wins and a top 3 pick over 60 wins, crappy pick, and a first round exit.

I'm not sure Sunsfan88 would still be with us if this team had only won 6 games up to this point...

 

[sunsfan88]

And we may lose to them too. Should I get the Suicide Hot Line phone number for you?

Steve

Its interesting how you don't care that they just chuck up 3s. I don't care if we had all D league players, I want them to have a balance of driving it to the rim and shooting, not completely one sided with one or the other.

I love Hornacek and I think overall he's done a fantastic job this year. But the fact that he encourages them to shoot rather than drive it in rubs me the wrong way.

I'm not sure Sunsfan88 would still be with us if this team had only won 6 games up to this point...

Oh I wouldn't care then. Just like I didn't really care about the Suns all that much last season. Besides, with my Chargers playing so well, not even the Suns could completely blow me up with their play this year

 

[Folster]

As much as I'd like the Suns to make the playoffs this year, narrowly missing wouldn't be all that bad. The difference between the 8th and 9th seed in the West could be 6 to 7 draft choices because of all the crappy Eastern teams. As it stands right now the 8th seed in the West will draft around 20-21 while the 9th seed will jump in front 6-7 Eastern teams that made the playoffs with worse records and likely draft 14th.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Its interesting how you don't care that they just chuck up 3s. I don't care if we had all D league players, I want them to have a balance of driving it to the rim and shooting, not completely one sided with one or the other.

I love Hornacek and I think overall he's done a fantastic job this year. But the fact that he encourages them to shoot rather than drive it in rubs me the wrong way.

Oh I wouldn't care then. Just like I didn't really care about the Suns all that much last season. Besides, with my Chargers playing so well, not even the Suns could completely blow me up with their play this year

It isn't that I don't care. I don't think the players we have are able to drive the ball to the basket. Frye might be able do it once or twice a game if the defense completely ignores him. Green and Tucker simply cannot handle the ball and forcing them to try and drive is just begging for a turnover. Marcus can do it a little but he's not quick enough to get where he wants to go without drawing the defense to him and he's not long enough to get his shot off in traffic.

I want Kevin Johnson, Jeff Hornacek and Walter Davis but I recognize we have Goran, Green and Tucker. I want Tim Duncan but I'm pretty sure that's Channing Frye out there. And I want Hakeem Olajuwon but we have Plumlee. They have their strengths but their strengths just aren't what you want them to be. If you really want this team to play your way you're going to have to wait until we get new players or bring a magic wand to the party - otherwise it's not going to happen.

Steve

 

[devilalum]

I was disappointing in the number of shots the Suns missed within 3 feet of the basket.
I'm to lazy to look at a shot chart but they must have missed 20 of them.

Also when Tucker gets an offensive rebound he needs to dribble the ball out. He has about a 10% success rate when he goes back up with it.

 

[82CardsGrad]

It isn't that I don't care. I don't think the players we have are able to drive the ball to the basket. Frye might be able do it once or twice a game if the defense completely ignores him. Green and Tucker simply cannot handle the ball and forcing them to try and drive is just begging for a turnover. Marcus can do it a little but he's not quick enough to get where he wants to go without drawing the defense to him and he's not long enough to get his shot off in traffic.

I want Kevin Johnson, Jeff Hornacek and Walter Davis but I recognize we have Goran, Green and Tucker. I want Tim Duncan but I'm pretty sure that's Channing Frye out there. And I want Hakeem Olajuwon but we have Plumlee. They have their strengths but their strengths just aren't what you want them to be. If you really want this team to play your way you're going to have to wait until we get new players or bring a magic wand to the party - otherwise it's not going to happen.

Steve

And this is why I was so adamant about the crazy talk of this team possibly being a championship contender...
I agree with your post. This team is still fatally flawed, yet, just a few pieces away...


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[WildBB]

He plays like a Center. He knows he's 7 feet tall with long arms, and he acts like someone that size should act. He does some dumb stuff, but that's to be expected. He moves much better than I thought he'd move coming back from a foot injury.

When he adds a little muscle he could really be a factor on defense. I loved that block on Randolph in the first half.

Steve

If your talking about Len here, I thought he was playing really well and would have liked to see him match up with Davis while he was on the floor. This was not a good game for Marcus M. , who I thought should not have been out there in crunch time. Barbosa hurt them in the stretch as well. He should have been on Connaly more as well, IMO.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I was disappointing in the number of shots the Suns missed within 3 feet of the basket.
I'm to lazy to look at a shot chart but they must have missed 20 of them.

Also when Tucker gets an offensive rebound he needs to dribble the ball out. He has about a 10% success rate when he goes back up with it.

I've been saying that since early last season. His offensive rebounds are wasted thanks to his unwillingness to kick the ball back out. He grabs the board and then either gets blocked or puts up a wild shot. He made a nice one down low against Minnesota but that's one of the very few I can remember. I don't even think he's shooting 10% on offensive board put-backs.

Steve

 

[AzStevenCal]

And this is why I was so adamant about the crazy talk of this team possibly being a championship contender...
I agree with your post. This team is still fatally flawed, yet, just a few pieces away...


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Again, it was never about being a contender it was about the small but real possibility of becoming a championship contender. It was based on Okafor or Len becoming a presence for us down low and the possible improvement of the Bledsoe/Dragic combo and the continued improvement of the Morris twins etc. We've gone pretty much the opposite way in every area of hoped-for-improvement. The Morris twins have been a liability more often than not for awhile now, Bledsoe has been out and Len is just now stepping on to the court. This team without Bledsoe does appear to be fatally flawed. Here's hoping Jeff can pull another rabbit out of his hat.

Steve

 

[AzStevenCal]

If your talking about Len here, I thought he was playing really well and would have liked to see him match up with Davis while he was on the floor. This was not a good game for Marcus M. , who I thought should not have been out there in crunch time. Barbosa hurt them in the stretch as well. He should have been on Connaly more as well, IMO.

I was talking about Len. I think they're trying to monitor his minutes pretty closely until he gets into game shape and Davis would be a tough matchup for him right now. Not that he hasn't been a tough matchup for whoever we've put on him.

Steve

 

[Superbone]

I've been saying that since early last season. His offensive rebounds are wasted thanks to his unwillingness to kick the ball back out. He grabs the board and then either gets blocked or puts up a wild shot. He made a nice one down low against Minnesota but that's one of the very few I can remember. I don't even think he's shooting 10% on offensive board put-backs.

Steve

I get the impression that he thinks since he got the offensive rebound, it's his perogative to put it back up.

 

[Mainstreet]

I get the impression that he thinks since he got the offensive rebound, it's his perogative to put it back up.

I don't think Tucker feels comfortable passing the ball whether it be on a fastbreak or grabbing an offensive rebound when he can put the shot up. Sometimes smaller bigs just do not see the court well especially when there is a crowd underneath the basket when fighting for an offensive rebound.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I get the impression that he thinks since he got the offensive rebound, it's his perogative to put it back up.

Probably but it becomes just another wasted possession when he does it. He gets a couple of them per game but he might as well just grab 1 every 5th game for all the good it does us as a team. He is just so obviously swamped in there that it's almost impossible for him to even draw a foul by the time he puts it up (he's usually just guarded by one big guy initially until he fakes up to the left then fakes up to the right a couple of times before he throws the ball away - AKA shoots).

Steve