Suns have better future without JJ

[PakistaniRambo]

Pretty slow news day, hopefully Finley gets waived by the end of the day. Not sure if anyone has posted this yet, but this is an article from Real GM


Suns Will Be More Than Competitive Without J.J.
Casey OGrady - 14th August, 2005 7:05 PM

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Quite surprisingly, NBA commissioner David Stern wasted almost no time in approving the removal of Atlanta Hawk’s part-owner Steve Belkin as NBA governor of the team. This will now allow for the original Joe Johnson trade to go through. The trade of Joe Johnson for guard Boris Diaw and two conditional first round picks may take as a long as a week to be made official, but for all intents and purposes the whole ordeal is over.

This leaves the Suns without two of its starters from last year’s 62-20 team. Many fans have become frustrated and upset with the Suns' management and have resorted to giving up on the team. Editorials printed in the Arizona Republic proclaim, “They are going to be lucky to be a playoff team next year,” and “next season they’ll display a lot of offensive leakage.” Don’t get me wrong, losing J.J. hurts, but there is no way Phoenix will sink to mediocrity without him. This new Suns team should be equal to or even better than last year’s team.


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The Suns added two key role players to replace Johnson and Quentin Richardson. Kurt Thomas is a tough low post player who provides the Suns with needed interior defense and help in the half court offense. I have heard only good things about him from New York fans, and doubt he’ll slow the team down too much. Raja Bell, although widely praised for his defense, has a much underrated offensive game. Amazingly, he averaged more points-per-minute than either Johnson or Richardson last year. He also shot a lethal 40.3% from behind and the arc, much higher than Q’s 35.8. He also did all this on a slow paced, poorly run Utah offense. Imagine what he could do under Steve Nash and the high powered offense of the Suns.

The Suns' off season has not yet come to an end. They still have the opportunity to add to an already strong team. With the possibility of Michael Finley being waived this week, the Suns could look to add him to replace J.J. There are also other remaining free agents that Phoenix could pursue to add depth. No matter how they finish off the off season, the Sun’s management has built a team that will contend for the championship next year and for years to come. Just think, last year, people ragged on Colangelo and Co. for signing Nash instead of Kobe or T-Mac. I think they made the right choice, and for that, they deserve the trust of Phoenix fans.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Just think, last year, people ragged on Colangelo and Co. for signing Nash instead of Kobe or T-Mac. I think they made the right choice, and for that, they deserve the trust of Phoenix fans.

The problem with that comment is that i think everyone in managment agrees losing Joe was a blow to next years team. And if i remember correctly, T-mac chose Houston and Yao over Amare and the Suns (that will come back to haunt him) so really neither of those two decisions was the Suns choice. And they would have had Nash as that proposed trade was after they signed him. They just got lucky last year (although i think TMAC w/ Nash and Amare would be unstoppable) that everything fell in to place. Hopefully lightning strikes twice....

 

[Yuma]

Just think, last year, people ragged on Colangelo and Co. for signing Nash instead of Kobe or T-Mac. I think they made the right choice, and for that, they deserve the trust of Phoenix fans.

The problem with that comment is that i think everyone in managment agrees losing Joe was a blow to next years team. And if i remember correctly, T-mac chose Houston and Yao over Amare and the Suns (that will come back to haunt him) so really neither of those two decisions was the Suns choice. And they would have had Nash as that proposed trade was after they signed him. They just got lucky last year (although i think TMAC w/ Nash and Amare would be unstoppable) that everything fell in to place. Hopefully lightning strikes twice....

Well, the Suns were supposedly in the Kobe hunt, of which I didn't want Kobe on our squad. However, when the free agency bell sounded, the Suns were off and running to Nash's house and swept him away from Dallas. That stealth attack took Dallas and the whole NBA by surprise. Many NBA analysts, GMs, etc., doubted the wisdom of that move by Phoenix. One MVP trophy later, I guess Phoenix knew what they were doing.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

And if i remember correctly, T-mac chose Houston and Yao over Amare and the Suns (that will come back to haunt him) so really neither of those two decisions was the Suns choice.

And they would have had Nash as that proposed trade was after they signed him. They just got lucky last year (although i think TMAC w/ Nash and Amare would be unstoppable) that everything fell in to place. Hopefully lightning strikes twice....

Actually the Suns backed out of the trade. They wanted to send Marion/Jacobson/Voskuhl/#7 pick and Orlando wanted Marion/Johnson/#7. TMac supposedly made some rumblings about preferring Houston, but it was Phoenix that killed the deal.

Also, the proposed trade was before the Nash signing. It was actually before the NBA draft. They still would have had the cap space to sign Nash, but who knows if he would have wanted to come?

I do agree that Amare, Tmac and Nash would be an unstoppable trio. I also think that the Suns blew the trade last season since they lost Joe (at the time I was with them)

 

[Diamondback Jay]

Raja Bell, although widely praised for his defense, has a much underrated offensive game. Amazingly, he averaged more points-per-minute than either Johnson or Richardson last year. He also shot a lethal 40.3% from behind and the arc, much higher than Q’s 35.8. He also did all this on a slow paced, poorly run Utah offense. Imagine what he could do under Steve Nashand the high powered offense of the Suns.

Just a couple of things I found interesting here.

First, a collegue of mine is the biggest Utah fan you'll ever meet, and in a recent discussion he told me that Bell's the style of player who will absolutely flourish in Phoenix's system. If you consider the fact that he's had the best years of his career in Utah, where they had crap for PG, you can just imagine with Nash he'll only further improve.

I'm not happy about Johnson's departure, not by a long shot. I'm also not saying Bell will make us fans forget him, however as a fourth option, they can certainly do far worse.

As long as the Big 3 (Amare, Nash and Marion) continue to play as they have in the past, I think Phoenix will be just fine.

Good article.

 

[Chaz]

The Suns just don't have a replacement for JJ.

Jim Jackson is about the best we have.


I see Thomas as an addition (rather than a replacement)

I see Bell as a replacement for Q rather than JJ.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

The Suns just don't have a replacement for JJ.

Jim Jackson is about the best we have.


I see Thomas as an addition (rather than a replacement)

I see Bell as a replacement for Q rather than JJ.

I think that is a fair assessment of the moves so far.

 

[George O'Brien]

The Suns just don't have a replacement for JJ.

Jim Jackson is about the best we have.


I see Thomas as an addition (rather than a replacement)

I see Bell as a replacement for Q rather than JJ.

It's hard to say. At this point the Suns have three guys leave and three guys come in: KT, Bell, and Diaw. We can assume the team will add another player through LLE or the TE.

 

[Diamondback Jay]

The Suns just don't have a replacement for JJ.

Jim Jackson is about the best we have.

I see Thomas as an addition (rather than a replacement)

I see Bell as a replacement for Q rather than JJ..

I respect what your saying here, and am by no means downplaying your thoughts. Let me say that right off the bat.

My view on this however differs. I think that the comment about Bell being Q's replacement is fair, however I disagree with your comment about lacking a replacement for JJ.

To me, it's all about the guy we still have.. Shawn Marion. He's put up the numbers before, he's more than capable of being a prime scoring option again.

Thomas IS an addition, one that will prove valueable. I don't agree with trading a 1st AND Richardson for him, but meh.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Marion scored 20ppg last season, he isn't about to get a lot higher than that.

You have to replace Joe's 17ppg somewhere. I think that Bell will score more than Q did, and Thomas will chip in maybe 10. Amare will have to get up to around 30ppg.

 

[George O'Brien]

Marion scored 20ppg last season, he isn't about to get a lot higher than that.

You have to replace Joe's 17ppg somewhere. I think that Bell will score more than Q did, and Thomas will chip in maybe 10. Amare will have to get up to around 30ppg.

Perhaps if the Sun had a point guard that could shoot. Oh, wait, they do...

 

[scotsman13]

bright future in phoenix? personally with the trade of jj and the return of the draft picks i am much more hopeful about the future for this team. lets face facts here if we are going to win a championship in the next couple years it will be because of nash and amare and to a lesser part marion, not jj.

jj helped this team win games and we all saw times when he was the only one who could score on the floor. so how can losing jj make this teams future brighter? with jj out during the playoffs, we still went on to beat dallas in the playoffs in 6 games and then play close to the spurs in all but one of the 4 losts to the spurs. the biggest reason we lost to the spurs was our inability to stop them from scoring in the 4th quarter. by adding kurt thomas and raja bell we will be a much better defensive team. but more importantly we pick up some very promising draft picks that can be use to build the next suns team around amare.

if draft picks would make a differance on the next team this team has why have we giving so many away of late? most of them were used to clear salery to sign players in nash and richardson. even through richardson has moved on that draft pick wasnt a waste. the players that most suns fans wish that the suns had drafted (deng, Iguodala and nate robinson this year) wouldnt have made a differance behind marion and nate is a scoring point we already have that in barbosa. so the draft picks will be players who are reaching their prime as nash is retiring and marion is moving on.

lets face facts if we have 2 or 3 picks in the draft the year after next we can count on picking up one of the big draft pick in that draft.

 

[Chaz]

I respect what your saying here, and am by no means downplaying your thoughts. Let me say that right off the bat.

My view on this however differs. I think that the comment about Bell being Q's replacement is fair, however I disagree with your comment about lacking a replacement for JJ.

To me, it's all about the guy we still have.. Shawn Marion. He's put up the numbers before, he's more than capable of being a prime scoring option again.

Thomas IS an addition, one that will prove valueable. I don't agree with trading a 1st AND Richardson for him, but meh.

Marion is great but you are not going to put the ball in his hands with the shot clock running down and expect him to create a good shot.

JJ did that quite a bit for the Suns last year. That is what we don't have a replacement for.

Plus you cannot 'replace' a starter lost to FA with someone who was already starting.

 

[fordronken]

Marion is great but you are not going to put the ball in his hands with the shot clock running down and expect him to create a good shot.

JJ did that quite a bit for the Suns last year. That is what we don't have a replacement for.

Plus you cannot 'replace' a starter lost to FA with someone who was already starting.

Amare and Nash can do that.

And all this "replacing" is kind of a foolish idea. Every year a team is different. It's not like if we don't have JJ, we will suddenly score 17 less points a game unless we find a suitable replacement. The offense will be different, things will change, this will be a team with a different goal than last year's team.

 

[CaptainInsano]

For me it's not just about finding replacements and upping defense. it is also about making additions to our bench or at LEAST improving it.

Right now we have not just failed to scratch the surface of the bench, but we have went backwards:

-With JJ's 40 minutes per game gone how much more does the bench play?

-With hunter gone and replaced by players we KNOW will not be as effective as him how effective will the bench that is playing more be?

We cannot, CANNOT rely on our starters and Jim Jackson off the bench to give us a win against the spurs. Without hunter out there like he was in the playoffs we are in trouble.

 

[F-Dog]

The Suns now have the same number of quality veterans they had last year, when depth was a serious problem. Plus, Joe Johnson played as many minutes last year as any player in the league.


I think you can debate whether the Suns are better off for the future after the JJ deal (A big part of the argument would have to be that the Suns have a budget now, one they won't exceed regardless of consequence). They're obviously going to be a worse team right now, though, and since most of the team's contributors qualify as 'aging veterans', right now is what's important.

 

[Chaz]

Amare and Nash can do that.

And all this "replacing" is kind of a foolish idea. Every year a team is different. It's not like if we don't have JJ, we will suddenly score 17 less points a game unless we find a suitable replacement. The offense will be different, things will change, this will be a team with a different goal than last year's team.

Agreed but Amare can be doubled more easily on the post than someone dribbling out by the three point line and Nash has been awesome but his size is an issue in the playoffs. Plus getting the ball to Amare where he can work can be made difficult, not so with a player that is bringing the ball up or getting the ball out at half court.



I understand what you are saying about the replacement thing. It is a very limited assessment and not very meaningful. I just take issue with people saying Bell is JJ's replacement. More accurately Bell is Q's replacement.

It really is for comparative purposes only.

 

[PakistaniRambo]

The only thing i'm really going to miss that JJ provided was the ability to create his own shots. but knowing how talented we are offensively, i dont think we're going to be in trouble next year. We will be better defensively, with a little bit of a scoring drop. I'd say we score about 107 ppg next year, which is 3 less than last.

JJ and Q had an amazing 3-point shooting year. I wonder why? The reason is people were too afraid to leave Amare or marion open on the break so both JJ and Q would get rediculously open 3 pointers. The same will be true for whomever we bring in. I think Raja will be great defensively for us, and will drain the 3 just as good as JJ. And if we sign Finley, he will provide the 2nd punch from 3 at the other side of the court. and both raja and finley will be much more efficient than Q, so we'll be just fine.

WIthout JJ we have an opportunity to get some quality bench players that will actually play in a game! The reason JJ played so much last year was because no one on the bench could do anything worthwhile in the guard position, unless you consider JJax a guard.


edit--well 1 wish came true...looks like we got brian grant

 

[Dustbuster]

The only thing i'm really going to miss that JJ provided was the ability to create his own shots. but knowing how talented we are offensively, i dont think we're going to be in trouble next year. We will be better defensively, with a little bit of a scoring drop. I'd say we score about 107 ppg next year, which is 3 less than last.

JJ and Q had an amazing 3-point shooting year. I wonder why? The reason is people were too afraid to leave Amare or marion open on the break so both JJ and Q would get rediculously open 3 pointers. The same will be true for whomever we bring in. I think Raja will be great defensively for us, and will drain the 3 just as good as JJ. And if we sign Finley, he will provide the 2nd punch from 3 at the other side of the court. and both raja and finley will be much more efficient than Q, so we'll be just fine.

WIthout JJ we have an opportunity to get some quality bench players that will actually play in a game! The reason JJ played so much last year was because no one on the bench could do anything worthwhile in the guard position, unless you consider JJax a guard.

I will be thrilled if this is true, but this might be easier said than done. In terms of quantity combined with quality, JJ was the best three point shooter in the league last year. That's more than just the result of having open looks.

 

[Joe Mama]

I don't know if I believe Bell will shoot 48% from beyond the arc like JJ did last year, but I think he'll shoot well enough to spread opposing defenses. Frankly it's possible JJ himself would not have shot that well again from beyond the arc.

Jimmy Jackson shot over 45% from three-point land once he'd made it his way to the Phoenix Suns last season. In the playoffs he shot over 51%. I have no doubt that he will be a will to fill that void left by JJ. I'm just hoping they'll have the depth to cover the hole he'll leave on the bench.

Joe Mama

 

[coloradosun]

I don't know if I believe Bell will shoot 48% from beyond the arc like JJ did last year, but I think he'll shoot well enough to spread opposing defenses. Frankly it's possible JJ himself would not have shot that well again from beyond the arc.

Jimmy Jackson shot over 45% from three-point land once he'd made it his way to the Phoenix Suns last season. In the playoffs he shot over 51%. I have no doubt that he will be a will to fill that void left by JJ. I'm just hoping they'll have the depth to cover the hole he'll leave on the bench.

Joe Mama

I see Bell coming off the bench, Jackson will probably start. Bell is probably going to used how we first invisioned Q to be utitlized, energy off the bench. I think that we all thought that the Suns would use a traditional lineup last year, this year it is guaranteed.

I do think that they do need to add another shooter, as a stated before DerMarr Johnson would be a good pickup because he could not only spell the 2 but also the 3.