OP
OP
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2003
- Posts
- 118,028
- Reaction score
- 58,326
That explains it. I thought Mack cleared waivers.
Suns @ Kings 2-10-19
- Thread starter Mainstreet
- Start date
That explains it. I thought Mack cleared waivers.
So you tell me what you want. He’s a rookie getting 16/11. He’s a big man and big men are dependent on guys getting them the ball and involved. Luka is a perimeter player he has the ball in his hands before he even crosses half court.
Since Igor isn’t the problem and Ayton has a suspect motor you tell me what you want. Let me guess just wait a few more years when there in there primes huh. Did you watch the game? See all the finger pointing and yelling at each other. If you can’t see that this team has some serious issues and Igor just doesn’t have control then idk.
Cause I honestly don’t think you know how basketball works.
You're the one that said he sucks, why do I need to defend him? I already said my piece. I want to see him play with heart and fire. I want to see him fight for position and rebounds. I want to see him try harder and not put his head down and tail between his legs because he got beat. I want to see him run down to the other end of the court and then show up the guy who beat him previously.
It's not about stats, it's about will, fire, desire, heart, etc. You can call it a million different things but Ayton seems to be lacking it. I hope it's because he's young because then it can be fixed but if it's something he never develops then he'll never be the #1 option on a title contender unless he somehow becomes Tim Duncan 2.0 and masters fundamentals on both ends of the court. I don't think he'll do that but I'd be ok with it. I want to see that he cares because it's really tough to see that right now.
If it were all on Igor then Ayton would snap eventually and start demanding the ball. Shaq used to do that when he wasn't getting the ball enough, in his mind, so why can't Ayton? I know he's a rookie but he can do more to put himself in position to score and succeed. Like he could try to go at his man when he gets the ball rather than pass out right away. If he did that then he'd probably be drawing some fouls and get to the line to get some easy points but he almost never shoots free throws. You can't blame that on coaching.
I'd like to see him get the ball more also but I'd also like to see him do more with it so he can't be ignored. It goes both ways. Igor isn't calling enough plays to get him the ball but it's not just Igor's fault. I never said Igor is a great coach but it goes beyond "feed Ayton" when all that happens when you do is he passes back out. Igor could work with him practice and build his confidence, we don't know if he is or isn't but if he's not there's no excuse for that and if he is then he sucks at it. I don't see how it can only be Igor's fault or only Ayton's. It can fall on both of them, I think it does, but if I don't mention Igor everytime Ayton acts like a scared rookie that doesn't mean I've giving Igor a pass. Why should I need to mention both each time? It's ridiculous. There is plenty of Igor bashing already, I don't feel the need to pile on when it's warranted.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Apr 2, 2004
- Posts
- 36,758
- Reaction score
- 16,525
I have no idea if Igor is part of the problem but I do know he is not THE problem. We have lots of problems.
Didn't watch the game but thought I'd give everyone good news. Bender was a +1
Yep
That’s good to know I’m not the only one who sees that. He’s been doing it all season. Really frustrating to see since he’ll be our max player going forward. Also could be a reason for the lack of team effort.
I’m not sure if you guys played any sports but some guys who think they’re the next best thing, can be cancerous to the entire team.
Well then McD declining his 4th year option makes it even more apparent why he was fired. Bender is the future and now we'll need to max him out a year early to keep him. Gee, thanks Ryan!
I'm slightly disappointed that Bender has looked like more of a real NBA player now than any point during his Suns tenure though. I'm glad we don't have to pay him like $8-9 million next year but I wish there was some sort of way a team could retain a players rights without having to pay them ridiculous amounts when they take longer to develop, like Bender. Maybe we should have made him spend another year in Europe before coming over. I think that would have helped him but it probably would have cost McD his job sooner since he would have looked lost in Europe and then McD would need to explain why he picked him so high much sooner.
OP
OP
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2003
- Posts
- 118,028
- Reaction score
- 58,326
Bender was a +17 and Okobo was a +16 against the Warriors.
It makes me question (+/-).
BC867
Long time Phoenician!
I couldn't catch the game, either, but I saw the post-game interview online later.
It was a re-run of all the previous interviews, including during this losing streak. And with Booker back.
A third party's play-by-play of all the "need-to's". Not a Head Coach giving encouragement or taking responsibility.
Consistency is one thing. A losing streak is, obviously, not a good consistency.
Neither is a coach who says something, then tries to say it differently every time, because he didn't like the way he said it the first time.
His ability to communicate is lacking. It is demoralizing! Why not just let Sarver do the post-game interviews? He is a loose cannon. 'Might be interesting.
It was a re-run of all the previous interviews, including during this losing streak. And with Booker back.
A third party's play-by-play of all the "need-to's". Not a Head Coach giving encouragement or taking responsibility.
Consistency is one thing. A losing streak is, obviously, not a good consistency.
Neither is a coach who says something, then tries to say it differently every time, because he didn't like the way he said it the first time.
His ability to communicate is lacking. It is demoralizing! Why not just let Sarver do the post-game interviews? He is a loose cannon. 'Might be interesting.
Proximo
ASFN Icon
- Joined
- Mar 8, 2015
- Posts
- 12,712
- Reaction score
- 10,601
Yes. He is an upgrade and he only costs 3.6 million.
An upgrade over what?
Meanwhile, Miami has been playing better since they unloaded him on us.
And he does not cost $3.6 million. He costs almost $20 million. Just because Anderson was also a waste of space doesn't negate Johnson's actual ridiculous cost.
1tinsoldier
Hall of Famer
i agree. i mentioned it a month or two ago and it's a small thing that could be one of the most concerning things to come out this season
- Joined
- Apr 2, 2004
- Posts
- 36,758
- Reaction score
- 16,525
You should always question this kind of stat, especially when it's just one game. It's so dependent on who you're on the court with and who you're squaring off against that you can't just take it at face value but over the course of a season it is usually relevant.
1tinsoldier
Hall of Famer
you mean a waste of 3.6 million MORE than the waste that would have been paid to the other guy?
Proximo
ASFN Icon
- Joined
- Mar 8, 2015
- Posts
- 12,712
- Reaction score
- 10,601
People that think anything is black and white are not very wise. Almost nothing is.
People that do so with very incomplete knowledge - such as thinking they know how Igor is coaching ayton or how ayton is responding to the coaching should not even be listened too because they are basing their opinions off of their imagination.
Proximo
ASFN Icon
- Joined
- Mar 8, 2015
- Posts
- 12,712
- Reaction score
- 10,601
Unlike you I don’t base my opinion off of 2 games. I am looking at his career stats and what 3.6 million gets you in free agency. Using that knowledge, which is the same knowledge teams use to offer contracts in free agency he is worth the money.
Proximo
ASFN Icon
- Joined
- Mar 8, 2015
- Posts
- 12,712
- Reaction score
- 10,601
You should it means next to nothing in a single game, it has some value but only over a large sample of games, and even then it is not that reliable.
Proximo
ASFN Icon
- Joined
- Mar 8, 2015
- Posts
- 12,712
- Reaction score
- 10,601
Well then McD declining his 4th year option makes it even more apparent why he was fired. Bender is the future and now we'll need to max him out a year early to keep him. Gee, thanks Ryan!
I'm slightly disappointed that Bender has looked like more of a real NBA player now than any point during his Suns tenure though. I'm glad we don't have to pay him like $8-9 million next year but I wish there was some sort of way a team could retain a players rights without having to pay them ridiculous amounts when they take longer to develop, like Bender. Maybe we should have made him spend another year in Europe before coming over. I think that would have helped him but it probably would have cost McD his job sooner since he would have looked lost in Europe and then McD would need to explain why he picked him so high much sooner.
Yes the bender situation sucks. It has convinced me you should never draft a raw prospect earlier than the late teens or 20’s. It’s just to much of a gamble.
Proximo
ASFN Icon
- Joined
- Mar 8, 2015
- Posts
- 12,712
- Reaction score
- 10,601
Yes it does matter, he is costing us an additional 3.6, they have now stayed they would not have stretched and waived Anderson.
But yes a 20 million expiring is not a bad thing to have either for trade purposes.
He is an upgrade over okobo, Crawford and on most nights probably Melton.
You must be observing a completely different player than I am observing...
1tinsoldier
Hall of Famer
it's true i can't judge Tyler yet, but it's way too early for you as well, regardless of how you interpret the stats
the stats didn't tell us nearly enough about Oubre, who has more value than his stats, for example
or Canaan and James who had less value than their stats
based on eyeballing him 2 games, however, he's leaning more towards the latter two, in that he shot more and passed less and less effectively than i would have liked for a point guard
1tinsoldier
Hall of Famer
on a positive note, i liked that Tyler had something to say to Ayton, and especially that he said something to Booker after Booker bitched
Booker is the Suns' top scorer but he's got a long way to go to earn floor leadership credentials
Booker is the Suns' top scorer but he's got a long way to go to earn floor leadership credentials
WildBB
Yogi n da Bear
It sure doesn't seem like this team is responding well with Booker dominating the scoring. They seem to play harder with him out. Kind of ominous. But right now there is greater overall team involvement and effort with Booker sitting. Maybe it's just a hangover from coming up empty vs. GS the other night. But it was a ridiculous effort today compared with Thurs.
elindholm
edited for content
Bender's salary would have been under $6 million next season. I still think Bender is hopeless, but keeping him would not have been a ridiculous financial commitment -- far from it.
SirStefan32
Krycek, Alex Krycek
In all fairness, if they really wanted to, they could sign him as a free agent. I doubt anyone is going to offer him more than he was scheduled to make. If he didn't forget how to shoot (you know, the one thing he was good at), I'd be more inclined to sign him as a free agent for a year or two.
Similar threads
