Suns @ Nets 3-17-14

[Suns_fan69]

I agree with both posts. I hope the Suns don't hang onto their slim playoff hopes too long. The Suns remaining schedule does not bode well.

See link below.

http://espn.go.com/nba/team/schedule/_/name/PHX/phoenix-suns

I put us at 8 and 7 realistically over that stretch, maybe 9 and 6 if San Antonio rests guys. That'd put us at 46-36 (47-35) and probably on the outside looking in.

 

[The Polecat]

The worst possible scenario is ending up in the 14th spot.
We miss the playoffs and do not get Minnesota's pick.
If what I have been reading comes to pass and this is the last year for one and done then next years draft will be slim pickings.

 

[Mainstreet]

I put us at 8 and 7 realistically over that stretch, maybe 9 and 6 if San Antonio rests guys. That'd put us at 46-36 (47-35) and probably on the outside looking in.

I do not see the Suns making the playoffs. They'd be better off trying to develop Len and Goodwin. Also limiting the minutes of Dragic and Bledsoe to keep them healthy would be wise.

 

[Broseph]

The worst possible scenario is ending up in the 14th spot.
We miss the playoffs and do not get Minnesota's pick.
If what I have been reading comes to pass and this is the last year for one and done then next years draft will be slim pickings.

We should always expect the worst scenario as Suns fans.

 

[Catlover]

We should always expect the worst scenario as Suns fans.

I'd think that would take some of the fun out of being a fan but that's just me.

 

[JS22]

I agree. If they are smart, they'll let T-Wolves pass them as well.

"Let" the Twolves pass them?

How? By purposely playing terrible? Benching players? No player is going to purposely try to suck. And benching players would sure send a great message after trying hard to make the playoffs.

"Hey guys, you had a surprising season. But it looks like we're a few games out so we better let Minny pass us. You know, that 14th pick in the draft is much more important than any of you guys. And we don't care about the message we send to any future FA's either."

I'm not saying it would be a bad thing if Minny squeaked in. But I always find it funny when people say things like that. Does anyone really expect them to just fold on purpose?

 

[AfroSuns]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
+100
Couldn't have put it better. Which was one of the reason i hate the tanking idea.
If the Wolves do, then good for them, but i would rather we dont start a culture of losing now.
If they dont make PO, they need to go into the off season believing they are a good team with a good coach, not the other way around.

 

[marios13]

I am with Vandelay Industries on that one too. If they can make it great if not ... f$#% it...

 

[SirStefan32]

"Let" the Twolves pass them?

How? By purposely playing terrible? Benching players? No player is going to purposely try to suck. And benching players would sure send a great message after trying hard to make the playoffs.

"Hey guys, you had a surprising season. But it looks like we're a few games out so we better let Minny pass us. You know, that 14th pick in the draft is much more important than any of you guys. And we don't care about the message we send to any future FA's either."

I'm not saying it would be a bad thing if Minny squeaked in. But I always find it funny when people say things like that. Does anyone really expect them to just fold on purpose?

Of course not. No team would ask that of players, and no player would do it.
Nobody is suggesting "throwing" games.

Here is a partial list of what I am suggesting:

• Let Goran rest a couple of games- he's burned out from carrying the team the whole year.
• Don't risk further injuries to Bledsoe- limit his minutes, bring him along slowly.
• Let Archie and Lenforcer play some serious minutes. Play them 20-30 minutes, and run 5-10 plays for each of them.
• Run different lineups. Let's see what this looks like if we swap Greene and Morris for Tucker and Frye in the starting lineup, for example.

 

[Catlover]

Of course not. No team would ask that of players, and no player would do it.
Nobody is suggesting "throwing" games.

Here is a partial list of what I am suggesting:

• Let Goran rest a couple of games- he's burned out from carrying the team the whole year.
• Don't risk further injuries to Bledsoe- limit his minutes, bring him along slowly.
• Let Archie and Lenforcer play some serious minutes. Play them 20-30 minutes, and run 5-10 plays for each of them.
• Run different lineups. Let's see what this looks like if we swap Greene and Morris for Tucker and Frye in the starting lineup, for example.

Although I agree with you in theory it's a hard sell in real life. Unless management directs him to do some of those things Jeff is not likely to do anything that reduces our chance of winning on any given night. Once we're mathematically eliminated it becomes easier for management to give him that direction but until then I suspect they'll let him and the team continue to claw for that last spot.

As a fan I'm convinced they have no chance to make the playoffs but players and coaches can't ever admit that to themselves until the writing is on the wall. I sometimes wish we had been out of the race some time ago but not so much for the improved draft position. I think long term we'd be better served by getting Len, Goodwin and the Morris brothers as much time as they can handle than we would have by chasing and ultimately missing out on a playoff spot.

 

[desertdawg]

I was watching the mothership this morning as they were discussing Phil Jackson. The announcers were talking about who Phil might hire as a head coach, than they said it would "have to be somebody like Hornacek that makes an immediate impact, someone than can ignite a team."

It was something like that but I do enjoy Jeff getting props like that. I wasn't to well received in here as I kept asking for Gentry's departure but Im so glad he is gone. Jeff reminds me of a cross between Sloan and Pop, and that's a huge complement coming from me.

 

[JS22]

Of course not. No team would ask that of players, and no player would do it.
Nobody is suggesting "throwing" games.

Here is a partial list of what I am suggesting:

• Let Goran rest a couple of games- he's burned out from carrying the team the whole year.
• Don't risk further injuries to Bledsoe- limit his minutes, bring him along slowly.
• Let Archie and Lenforcer play some serious minutes. Play them 20-30 minutes, and run 5-10 plays for each of them.
• Run different lineups. Let's see what this looks like if we swap Greene and Morris for Tucker and Frye in the starting lineup, for example.

I didn't really mean to call you out exclusively. And I wouldn't hate losing out to Minny and gaining an extra pick. I just find it hard to believe that the players, coaches, etc, would purposely let a team pass them. That's my only issue.

Sure you could start cutting back minutes, giving the rookies more time, etc. But you're still sending the same message to them. "We're a few games back so we may as well give up."

And does anyone think Bledsoe would appreciate the idea of getting his minutes reduced while he's trying to play for a contract? (And still make the playoffs.)

It's just not as easy as throwing your hands up in the air and quitting with ?15? games left. The coaches, players, and FO won't do that.

 

[Covert Rain]

Sit your starters more minutes, see what you have on the bench more extensively. Making the playoffs this year does nothing for this franchise. I would rather have a better shot at a player in the draft versus getting bounced early and getting a worse pick.

 

[sunsfan88]

I was watching the mothership this morning as they were discussing Phil Jackson. The announcers were talking about who Phil might hire as a head coach, than they said it would "have to be somebody like Hornacek that makes an immediate impact, someone than can ignite a team."

It was something like that but I do enjoy Jeff getting props like that. I wasn't to well received in here as I kept asking for Gentry's departure but Im so glad he is gone. Jeff reminds me of a cross between Sloan and Pop, and that's a huge complement coming from me.

Pop and Sloan are more strict. Even Hornacek said recently that he's only like 5% Sloan cause he rarely gets mad or yells.

 

[Mainstreet]

Of course not. No team would ask that of players, and no player would do it.
Nobody is suggesting "throwing" games.

Here is a partial list of what I am suggesting:

• Let Goran rest a couple of games- he's burned out from carrying the team the whole year.
• Don't risk further injuries to Bledsoe- limit his minutes, bring him along slowly.
• Let Archie and Lenforcer play some serious minutes. Play them 20-30 minutes, and run 5-10 plays for each of them.
• Run different lineups. Let's see what this looks like if we swap Greene and Morris for Tucker and Frye in the starting lineup, for example.

We tend to agree about what you are suggesting.

The Suns have already been passed in the standings and it is unlikely they are going to catch Dallas and Memphis down the stretch, especially with the Suns remaining schedule. No one is saying the Suns should deliberately lose. However, Dragic needs some games off as he has had to carry the Suns most of the season. Most stars get rest during the season. If Bledsoe wants to play full bore so be it if that his desire. I'm thinking the Suns need to concentrate on keeping their players healthy, spread the minutes around and see what the Suns have in Len and Goodwin.

Also I have been meaning to say the Suns virtually opted out of the playoffs when they did not improve their front line around the trade deadline. And I'm not talking about a big contract like Gasol. If McDonough thought Rudolph would improve the Suns front line on the cheap, he was sadly mistaken.

 

[Catlover]

We tend to agree about what you are suggesting.

The Suns have already been passed in the standings and it is unlikely they are going to catch Dallas and Memphis down the stretch, especially with the Suns remaining schedule. No one is saying the Suns should deliberately lose. However, Dragic needs some games off as he has had to carry the Suns most of the season. Most stars get rest during the season. If Bledsoe wants to play full bore so be it if that his desire. I'm thinking the Suns need to concentrate on keeping their players healthy, spread the minutes around and see what the Suns have in Len and Goodwin.

Also I have been meaning to say the Suns virtually opted out of the playoffs when they did not improve their front line around the trade deadline. And I'm not talking about a big contract like Gasol. If McDonough thought Rudolph would improve the Suns front line on the cheap, he was sadly mistaken.

Trading for a good big man at the All Star break might have, MIGHT HAVE, made enough of a difference to get us into the playoffs. Pau Gasol, if he had been healthy and if he had been motivated to play for us might have, MIGHT HAVE, been good enough to make that difference. I think the Lakers wanted our own 1st and at least one other pick. McDonough was hot enough to make the playofffs that he might even have made that deal if Pau had been healthy enough for an audition.

I really can't think of another big man that was rumored to be available that would have given us even a reasonable chance at the playoffs. Hawes certainly wouldn't have done it. Neither would Bass have made the difference. Greg Monroe probably would have put us over the top but that would have been a very steep price if they were even willing to listen. Something along the lines of Bledsoe and picks might have talked them into it but I think we'd kick ourselves for that down the road.

I can think of one trade that probably would have put us into the playoffs but only if it were done shortly after Bledsoe went down. We could have traded Okafor and all our picks for Hawes and Young and that probably would have given us enough weapons to run through that 18 game gimme stretch with the 16 or so wins any good team would have earned. I'm not sure a short trip to the playoffs would have been worth it but Young would have been a nice addition going forward so maybe it would have.

 

[Mainstreet]

Trading for a good big man at the All Star break might have, MIGHT HAVE, made enough of a difference to get us into the playoffs. Pau Gasol, if he had been healthy and if he had been motivated to play for us might have, MIGHT HAVE, been good enough to make that difference. I think the Lakers wanted our own 1st and at least one other pick. McDonough was hot enough to make the playofffs that he might even have made that deal if Pau had been healthy enough for an audition.

I really can't think of another big man that was rumored to be available that would have given us even a reasonable chance at the playoffs. Hawes certainly wouldn't have done it. Neither would Bass have made the difference. Greg Monroe probably would have put us over the top but that would have been a very steep price if they were even willing to listen. Something along the lines of Bledsoe and picks might have talked them into it but I think we'd kick ourselves for that down the road.

I can think of one trade that probably would have put us into the playoffs but only if it were done shortly after Bledsoe went down. We could have traded Okafor and all our picks for Hawes and Young and that probably would have given us enough weapons to run through that 18 game gimme stretch with the 16 or so wins any good team would have earned. I'm not sure a short trip to the playoffs would have been worth it but Young would have been a nice addition going forward so maybe it would have.

As I said in my previous post, I was not talking about a big contract like Gasol although if healthy I might have done it for Okafor, nothing more. I disagree that Bass would not have been a difference maker to help the Suns make the playoffs. Even Drew Gooden might have helped the Suns and he was a free agent. I would never have considered the Hawes and Young trade as you describe it. However, going after Hawes in free agency might be a reasonable option. Until recently I never realized that Hawes was only 25.

 

[Catlover]

As I said in my previous post, I was not talking about a big contract like Gasol although if healthy I might have done it for Okafor, nothing more. I disagree that Bass would not have been a difference maker to help the Suns make the playoffs. Even Drew Gooden might have helped the Suns and he was a free agent. I would never have considered the Hawes and Young trade as you describe it. However, going after Hawes in free agency might be a reasonable option. Until recently I never realized that Hawes was only 25.

I forgot about Drew, as a free agent he might have been a decent pickup. You never really know how someone like him will fit in with his teammates but he can score down low and he can rebound, two things we need. Bass grades out as a slightly below average power forward, I don't see how he'd help us all that much. A slightly below average defensive center would have helped more IMO.

 

[Mainstreet]

I forgot about Drew, as a free agent he might have been a decent pickup. You never really know how someone like him will fit in with his teammates but he can score down low and he can rebound, two things we need. Bass grades out as a slightly below average power forward, I don't see how he'd help us all that much. A slightly below average defensive center would have helped more IMO.

We will never know. However, I do think the Suns could have found a better big man than Shavlik Randolph, if they were serious about the playoffs, with all due respect to Randolph.

 

[Catlover]

We will never know. However, I do think the Suns could have found a better big man than Shavlik Randolph, if they were serious about the playoffs, with all due respect to Randolph.

Well, I think you're right, Drew Gooden might well have been that better choice. I really don't think he would have been anywhere near enough to get us over the hump though. I know I've beat this horse to a pulp but the winnable games that we lost in January and February took us out of the running. That, IMO, would have been the time to make a move if making the playoffs was critical. By the time the trading deadline neared we were already dead meat.

 

[Mainstreet]

Well, I think you're right, Drew Gooden might well have been that better choice. I really don't think he would have been anywhere near enough to get us over the hump though. I know I've beat this horse to a pulp but the winnable games that we lost in January and February took us out of the running. That, IMO, would have been the time to make a move if making the playoffs was critical. By the time the trading deadline neared we were already dead meat.

As I look at it now , the early season Suns were an illusion, especially Frye and Plumlee. The Suns front line was never going to hold up over the course of a season. I hope the Suns address this issue in the off season.

 

[Errntknght]

Gooden looked like he was surely washed up but he seems to be rejuvenated since Washington signed him - shooting and rebounding at an unprecedented rate for him... who'd have thought. Someone mentioned him as a possibility a while back and I thought they had to be joking.

Hawes would be a nice upgrade from Frye but he's always played C, though his game seems suited for PF as far as I can tell. Its possible he would have trouble defending the position. He's a very good playmaker for a big and he rebounds quite a bit better that Channing. This year hi's shooting well from 3 (41%) but historically he's averaged around 34% and I doubt he unloads as fast Frye. If Hornacek and McD think he's a good fit I wouldn't be averse to signing him.

 

[Catlover]

Gooden looked like he was surely washed up but he seems to be rejuvenated since Washington signed him - shooting and rebounding at an unprecedented rate for him... who'd have thought. Someone mentioned him as a possibility a while back and I thought they had to be joking.

Hawes would be a nice upgrade from Frye but he's always played C, though his game seems suited for PF as far as I can tell. Its possible he would have trouble defending the position. He's a very good playmaker for a big and he rebounds quite a bit better that Channing. This year hi's shooting well from 3 (41%) but historically he's averaged around 34% and I doubt he unloads as fast Frye. If Hornacek and McD think he's a good fit I wouldn't be averse to signing him.

From what little I've seen of Hawes his overall defense is a real concern but he's a good rebounder and actually pretty effective defending at the rim. He gets eaten alive defending in space, much moreso than Frye does. If he's an overall improvement to Frye it wouldn't be by much although I don't think he's as mentally soft as Channing sometimes is. Frye loses his confidence easily and he's useless when that happens. I haven't seen any of that from Hawes but that might just be my lack of familiarity with him.

 

[Catlover]

As I look at it now , the early season Suns were an illusion, especially Frye and Plumlee. The Suns front line was never going to hold up over the course of a season. I hope the Suns address this issue in the off season.

I don't think they were an illusion in any way, shape or form. I think there was some sleight of hand going on to hide our weaknesses inside but the combination of Dragic and Bledsoe covered up a lot of blemishes. When we lost Eric we lost a large part of what made us special.

We probably would have come down to earth a little even without Eric's injury but I think we'd have been falling from 3rd or 4th with plenty of cushion. This team overachieved but that's a good thing and says a lot about their character. Calling them an illusion takes away from that IMO. We didn't have enough talent to survive a significant injury to arguably our best player, most teams don't.

 

[Mainstreet]

I don't think they were an illusion in any way, shape or form. I think there was some sleight of hand going on to hide our weaknesses inside but the combination of Dragic and Bledsoe covered up a lot of blemishes. When we lost Eric we lost a large part of what made us special.

We probably would have come down to earth a little even without Eric's injury but I think we'd have been falling from 3rd or 4th with plenty of cushion. This team overachieved but that's a good thing and says a lot about their character. Calling them an illusion takes away from that IMO. We didn't have enough talent to survive a significant injury to arguably our best player, most teams don't.

Your arguments have merit. However, as I view it, the Suns front line would have been exposed as the weak leak sooner or later. Opponents go right at the Suns interior defense with abandon. As you point out, Bledsoe covered up a lot of the blemishes. The question for me, is how many wins could the Suns have accumulated before they were exposed.

Maybe the Suns could have achieved a place in the playoffs and a higher seed if Bledsoe had stayed healthy. However, I think the Suns would have been quickly exposed as the season wore down and the playoffs began as a team weak upfront. The Suns early season success, if it was not an illusion, it was a mirage in terms of long term success.