Suns @ Nuggets

[Mainstreet]

Dragic with 21 points, 14 assists and 3 steals.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Suns with 10 points in OT, Green has 8 of them.


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[Mainstreet]

I'll take an ugly, gritty win.

 

[Rab]

Good win. Goran is amazing to watch!


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[devilalum]

And I'm usually a staunch Frye defender but he's been terrible this game.

When he tried to post up Chandler and got the ball taken from his hands. Shameful.

 

[sunsfan88]

The team misses Bledsoe. Nuggets played without a PG and have been blown out in their last 4 games and yet PHX needs OT to beat em. Eh.

Green on fire though.

And Fournier playing so well....I wanted him over Marshall

 

[sunsfan88]

Plumlee is thinking too much on his shot.

He SUCKS so far. He cant even guard faried??

Look at this, he isn't even trying:

http://www.nba.com/video/games/nuggets/2014/02/18/0021300799-phx-den-play3.nba

Even the Nuggets announcers are talking about how Mozgov and Faried are schooling him.

He hasn't been the same since Len came back. I don't know if he's intimidated by Len or if its just a coincidence.

 

[JS22]

I think Plumlee is just wearing down. Hitting that rookie wall that most do. (Even though he's not a rookie.)

The Suns really need to add a big and hope Bledsoe can contribute. If those two things happen it's going to be an entertaining playoff run.

 

[AfroSuns]

When he tried to post up Chandler and got the ball taken from his hands. Shameful.

Chandler!! Hell NO.. It was the French dude. Funniel or something. I mean, the lil man ripped the ball out of his hands. Frye, Len and Plumlee played like crap. With Plum being the worst.

 

[Mainstreet]

The Suns swept the Nuggets in four games. It would be interesting to see how Plumlee performed in the other three games. From my viewpoint, Plumlee has lost confidence for one reason or another. He actually reminded me of Len who is often guilty of wandering around out there.

Also as well as Faried looked last night, he did not play that well in the previous three games against the Suns.

 

[Catlover]

The Suns swept the Nuggets in four games. It would be interesting to see how Plumlee performed in the other three games. From my viewpoint, Plumlee has lost confidence for one reason or another. He actually reminded me of Len who is often guilty of wandering around out there.

Also as well as Faried looked last night, he did not play that well in the previous three games against the Suns.

I don't think that's it. I mentioned his inconsistency back in late November (IIRC) as it was already rearing it's ugly head. I don't watch much college basketball outside of the Pac so I had to search for information on him but apparently that's been a long standing complaint about him. His effort level is great at times and at others he seems to just be going through the motions.

We do so much criticizing when it comes to Frye and the Morris brothers but IMO Plumlee has been far more inconsistent than those three and those three have been inconsistent. We tend to judge some players by their best games and others by their worst performances. It's fine to do this and it even makes sense when you're excusing someone like Plumlee because of his experience level and demanding more from Channing because he's been around the block several times but I think it can lead us to the wrong conclusion.

In my opinion Plumlee, who I consider to be an important part of our future, has probably been the 8th most important player in our victories this season. Our wins have been influenced mostly by Dragic but behind him I'd sequence it as Green, Frye, Markieff, Tucker, Marcus, Bledsoe and then Miles. I could make a case for switching Green with Frye and perhaps even Marcus with Tucker but I see no way to put Miles in the top 7 and that's even with one of them having missed more than half the games so far. We've talked so positively about Plumlee that I doubt there's very many people that would have him anywhere near this level.

From my view, Plumlee comes out a little better if you just weigh his performance throughout all of our games but to me this is just another indicator of his relative unimportance to our wins. Frye, for example, as important as he's been to our wins is probably the biggest reason for our losses. He's followed closely by the Morris twins but again, Plumlee would be down around 8th. He can have a good game or a bad game and it rarely factors into the win/loss column. If Dragic or Frye or Green or Markieff have bad games we struggle. If more than one of them is off, we usually lose.

 

[sunsfan88]

We criticize Frye more than Plumlee because Frye makes way more $$ than Plumlee. When you make that much money, you are automatically held to a higher standard.

 

[devilalum]

We criticize Frye more than Plumlee because Frye makes way more $$ than Plumlee. When you make that much money, you are automatically held to a higher standard.

Frye is exactly the same player he was when the Suns gave him his current contract. The Suns knew exactly what they were getting.

 

[Catlover]

We criticize Frye more than Plumlee because Frye makes way more $$ than Plumlee. When you make that much money, you are automatically held to a higher standard.

This makes no sense. By almost any measure, Frye has more than earned his salary this season. If you ignore players that are still on their rookie deals and the end of the bench subs that get little playing time, Frye is paid below the league average. I know you measure all forwards by how many rebounds they get but there is more to the game than grabbing boards.

I wish Frye were better at rebounding and I wish he were better at holding his position against certain types of players but if he were, he'd be an All Star. He does a lot of things well and sucks at a couple of key aspects of the game. Hence the reason he's only making 6.4 million per. He's roughly an average player making roughly an average salary. He was overpaid in the earlier years of his deal but for this year alone, by NBA standards, he's a bargain.

 

[Catlover]

Frye is exactly the same player he was when the Suns gave him his current contract. The Suns knew exactly what they were getting.

He's exactly the same type of player but he's played at a much higher level than I've ever seen from him before. He used to get abused defensively by every opponent and his only value on offense was when he was hitting his threes. Now, he's a much more complete player and while he still has the same weaknesses they are no longer as pronounced.

 

[Mainstreet]

He's exactly the same type of player but he's played at a much higher level than I've ever seen from him before. He used to get abused defensively by every opponent and his only value on offense was when he was hitting his threes. Now, he's a much more complete player and while he still has the same weaknesses they are no longer as pronounced.

I think Frye has played much better this season than I could have anticipated. However, I was satisfied with the Channing Frye the Suns signed years ago. His stats seem to be fairly consistent. One could make the argument that his salary does not match his production but that ship sailed long ago.

 

[sunsfan88]

This makes no sense. By almost any measure, Frye has more than earned his salary this season. If you ignore players that are still on their rookie deals and the end of the bench subs that get little playing time, Frye is paid below the league average. I know you measure all forwards by how many rebounds they get but there is more to the game than grabbing boards.

I wish Frye were better at rebounding and I wish he were better at holding his position against certain types of players but if he were, he'd be an All Star. He does a lot of things well and sucks at a couple of key aspects of the game. Hence the reason he's only making 6.4 million per. He's roughly an average player making roughly an average salary. He was overpaid in the earlier years of his deal but for this year alone, by NBA standards, he's a bargain.

Um it's not just his rebounding, his defense, post game are all pretty below average.

He's a good shooter sure. But that's about all he brings. And even as a shooter he's INCONSISTENT.

 

[Catlover]

Um it's not just his rebounding, his defense, post game are all pretty below average.

He's a good shooter sure. But that's about all he brings. And even as a shooter he's INCONSISTENT.

No, he's not. There is a reason we talk in averages, shooters don't make every shot. Scorers that average 20 points per game have a lot of 11 point nights. Frye started off horribly the first 8 games of this season but since then he's been very consistent in "shooter" terms. Don't turn that into a claim that he shoots the same every game because that is unrealistic, few players ever do that.

His rebounding and post game are well below average but his defense has been well above that IMO. Eddie Johnson has remarked frequently about how good Frye's defense has been this season. He still gets worked over by some players and if you want to judge his defense by how he does against the players he can't guard, then fine he's a bad defender. But if you judge his defense over the course of a season he's been surprisingly effective. He's not Marc Gasol by a long shot but he out-defends his opponent more often than not.

 

[Mainstreet]

I don't think that's it. I mentioned his inconsistency back in late November (IIRC) as it was already rearing it's ugly head. I don't watch much college basketball outside of the Pac so I had to search for information on him but apparently that's been a long standing complaint about him. His effort level is great at times and at others he seems to just be going through the motions.

We do so much criticizing when it comes to Frye and the Morris brothers but IMO Plumlee has been far more inconsistent than those three and those three have been inconsistent. We tend to judge some players by their best games and others by their worst performances. It's fine to do this and it even makes sense when you're excusing someone like Plumlee because of his experience level and demanding more from Channing because he's been around the block several times but I think it can lead us to the wrong conclusion.

In my opinion Plumlee, who I consider to be an important part of our future, has probably been the 8th most important player in our victories this season. Our wins have been influenced mostly by Dragic but behind him I'd sequence it as Green, Frye, Markieff, Tucker, Marcus, Bledsoe and then Miles. I could make a case for switching Green with Frye and perhaps even Marcus with Tucker but I see no way to put Miles in the top 7 and that's even with one of them having missed more than half the games so far. We've talked so positively about Plumlee that I doubt there's very many people that would have him anywhere near this level.

From my view, Plumlee comes out a little better if you just weigh his performance throughout all of our games but to me this is just another indicator of his relative unimportance to our wins. Frye, for example, as important as he's been to our wins is probably the biggest reason for our losses. He's followed closely by the Morris twins but again, Plumlee would be down around 8th. He can have a good game or a bad game and it rarely factors into the win/loss column. If Dragic or Frye or Green or Markieff have bad games we struggle. If more than one of them is off, we usually lose.

I could discuss a lot here but I'll cut to the chase. Plumlee is the best the Suns have at center. He played with a lot more consistency earlier in the season but for some reason he is waffling now. Plumlee is more or less a rookie so I can understand him being erratic on some nights but there seems to be more to it now. IMO, it looks like he has lost confidence or has a fatigue issue. For example, in the last game against Denver he seemed to try to measure his shots and the way he shot the ball was not natural. Also he seemed be out of position a lot. It just didn't seem like the Plumlee earlier in the season.

 

[Catlover]

I could discuss a lot here but I'll cut to the chase. Plumlee is the best the Suns have at center. He played with a lot more consistency earlier in the season but for some reason he is waffling now. Plumlee is more or less a rookie so I can understand him being erratic on some nights but there seems to be more to it now. IMO, it looks like he has lost confidence or has a fatigue issue. For example, in the last game against Denver he seemed to try to measure his shots and the way he shot the ball was not natural. Also he seemed be out of position a lot. It just didn't seem like the Plumlee earlier in the season.

There are nights when I'd agree with this comment but there are many nights when I wouldn't. Check out his stats from the beginning of the season to see how up and down he's been all along. On his best nights, he's a better center than any other player we have on their best night. But on an average night he's outplayed at that position by both Frye and Markieff and that's scary.

I still want to see Plumlee play 30+ minutes a game even if it costs us victories but that's because of his potential not his performance. I don't like the idea of doing anything that slows down that growth but if I were a coach in win now mode he'd have a lot of 10 minute nights. Once he showed a lack of focus on defense and a lack of aggression on offense he'd head to the bench where he'd remain for that half (if not the game). He's too good when he's pushing himself to ever allow him to give less than that IMO.