Suns Off-season Thread

[Finito]

I thought there was a tough salary matching issue when you try to trade a max player during his first year on a contract?

What would the issues be?

I legit don’t know

 

[Covert Rain]

I'm not concerned about the burden of Booker/Ayton's salary. To me, the killer is solely the Supermax for Devin. But what are our options? Do we trade the best player we've had in a Suns uniform since Steve Nash?

It's tough to justify giving up a guy that has been the face of the franchise for several years and is only now about to entire his prime. I don't have the answer.

The Suns are not letting Booker walk so I am looking at it from the totality of keeping both players and the longer term ramifications of it.

I feel like just the opposite. The Suns not wanting to MAX out Ayton says to me they know Book as a 1 and Ayton as a 2 MAX isn’t going to lead to a title and that this off-season will be short term pain for long term gain.

And I think they’re kinda screwed either way. But I think they’re more screwed dealing Ayton from a position of weakness this off-season as opposed to matching whatever offer sheet he gets and trading him down the line.

Oh, if the rumors are true the Suns don't want to pay Ayton I agree. I was just postulating if they resign him and give him the money that's how it seems to me.

 

[AzStevenCal]

What would the issues be?

I legit don’t know

I phrased it ambiguously because I'm not so sure myself. I just thought there was something built into the cba that made it difficult to match salaries if one player is in his first year of a deal - something like, only so much of it could be matched but all of it still applied to the cap.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I think Giannis is that one guy. Maybe Kawhi and KD were those guys for a few seasons. Anyone of those three could take some solid role players and win. KD's legacy is a bit tarnished because he joined the Warriors imo.

Yeah, I'd put Giannis in that small group and possibly Luka.

 

[Finito]

Yeah, I'd put Giannis in that small group and possibly Luka.

Steph also

 

[AzStevenCal]

Steph also

Not for me, not any more. Same with Durant. They're still great, just not great enough every night. Jokic would come closer but I don't know if he can carry a team to a title mostly by himself.

Honestly I could easily make a case that no current player in the NBA is good enough to warrant a supermax if it's based on my criteria (being able to truly carry a team to a title).

 

[Folster]

I thought there was a tough salary matching issue when you try to trade a max player during his first year on a contract?

Not after the restricted/no trade period, which used to be December. Not sure if that is still the case. The BYC provision would be applicable in a sign and trade though. Even though Ayton would be slated to get 30M+ we could only sign and trade him and take back 125% of his Base Year Compensation approximately 19M as I understand it. I'm not sure how to calculate the BYC, but the only thing that makes sense is half of his $31.5M cap hold x 1.25. I can't get the 19M figure any other way. Does anybody else know if that is correct?

 

[AzStevenCal]

Not after the restricted/no trade period, which used to be December. Not sure if that is still the case. The BYC provision would be applicable in a sign and trade though. Even though Ayton would be slated to get 30K+ we could only sign and trade him and take back 125% of his Base Year Compensation approximately 19K as I understand it. I'm not sure how to calculate the BYC, but the only thing that makes sense is half of his $31.5M cap hold x 1.25. I can't get the 19K figure any other way. Does anybody else know if that is correct?

Yeah, base year compensation was what I was trying to think of. Obviously since I couldn't even think of what it was called I have no idea about how it works, I just remember it being a challenge.

 

[Finito]

Not for me, not any more. Same with Durant. They're still great, just not great enough every night. Jokic would come closer but I don't know if he can carry a team to a title mostly by himself.

Honestly I could easily make a case that no current player in the NBA is good enough to warrant a supermax if it's based on my criteria (being able to truly carry a team to a title).

I think GS is the odds on favorite to win it this year now and he’s the man on that team.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I think GS is the odds on favorite to win it this year now and he’s the man on that team.

That's not really what I'm talking about. Pretty much every team that wins it all has someone that's "the man" on the team.

I think any team is extremely limited in options if they have a player on a supermax. So I'm talking about the very, very small group of players that are good enough to make up for what that contract costs their team. Curry used to be good enough, IMO he no long is. I'm not sure any current player is but I'd rank them by likelihood as Giannis, Luka, Jokic and then a significant drop-off.

 

[Hoop Head]

Not after the restricted/no trade period, which used to be December. Not sure if that is still the case. The BYC provision would be applicable in a sign and trade though. Even though Ayton would be slated to get 30M+ we could only sign and trade him and take back 125% of his Base Year Compensation approximately 19M as I understand it. I'm not sure how to calculate the BYC, but the only thing that makes sense is half of his $31.5M cap hold x 1.25. I can't get the 19M figure any other way. Does anybody else know if that is correct?

That's correct.
BYC is something that was eliminated from the last CBA. Now it only applies to extensions that haven't kicked in and sign & trades. So it wouldn't be a issue if we resigned Ayton.

The issue people are thinking of is that Ayton couldn't be traded without his permission in the first year of a new contract if we match an offer sheet. He also couldn't be traded to the team who signed him to an offer sheet for 1 full year, permission or not.

As far as waiting until December to trade him. A team must wait until December 15th trade a player they signed in the off-season. So we'd have to play a good 1/3 of the season before we could trade Ayton.

 

[Covert Rain]

SI Donnie Druin is reporting that the Suns have some willing trade partners for Ayton. Assuming that teams have signaled these players are available. The players mentioned are:

Hawks/Capella
Pistons/Grant
Blazer/Nurkic

Some of the stuff I am hearing is crap IMO or craptastic trade scenarios. The only one I would consider is Capella.

 

[Hoop Head]

SI Donnie Druin is reporting that the Suns have some willing trade partners for Ayton. Assuming that teams have signaled these players are available. The players mentioned are:

Hawks/Capella
Pistons/Grant
Blazer/Nurkic

Some of the stuff I am hearing is crap IMO or craptastic trade scenarios. The only one I would consider is Capella.

Nurkic doesn't make sense unless Portland is also sending a boatload of picks are way because he's a free agent and would need to be a signed and traded as well.

Grant doesn't make sense. He'd be a good PF if we had Ayton but obviously trading Ayton for him and then seeking a starting Center in free agency with the MLE doesn't make sense. Grant is also money driven, he wanted a max extension from the Pistons. He left Denver, a contender, for money in Detroit, and would likely bail on the Suns for money elsewhere too.

I'm for the Capela deal.

 

[Joe Mama]

It's easier said than done.

There are not a lot of options with the Suns owing Paul about $45 million guaranteed over the next two seasons.

I completely disagree. I know Cp was a disaster those last 4 games, but we could trade him in a heartbeat. If you think the media and other teams are questioning the Phoenix Suns because of the situation with DA it would be 10 times worse if we decided to move Chris Paul this summer. And it should be.

Joe

 

[Folster]

SI Donnie Druin is reporting that the Suns have some willing trade partners for Ayton. Assuming that teams have signaled these players are available. The players mentioned are:

Hawks/Capella
Pistons/Grant
Blazer/Nurkic

Some of the stuff I am hearing is crap IMO or craptastic trade scenarios. The only one I would consider is Capella.

No thanks to all of those. I'd rather have a grumpy Ayton than those deals.

 

[AZCrazy]

If we could just find a way to get Ayton to put down the bong on game days, and maintain his "focus", he'd be re-signed in a minute.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

SI Donnie Druin is reporting that the Suns have some willing trade partners for Ayton. Assuming that teams have signaled these players are available. The players mentioned are:

Hawks/Capella
Pistons/Grant
Blazer/Nurkic

Some of the stuff I am hearing is crap IMO or craptastic trade scenarios. The only one I would consider is Capella.

Nurkic would be the worst. Capella would be a step back but not disastrous. Grant is interesting but really requires a reset of how we think about this team.

 

[Covert Rain]

Nurkic would be the worst. Capella would be a step back but not disastrous. Grant is interesting but really requires a reset of how we think about this team.

I could stomach Capella. Nurkic is a hell no. Not big on Grant either.

 

[GatorAZ]

Jerami Grant is the Diaw in this S&T scenario. We’re not doing much better than that. I would prefer Saddiq Bey if we’re dealing with Detroit but they have no reason to deal him. If they’d throw in Isaiah Stewart and a future pick it looks better.

 

[Finito]

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[Finito]

SI Donnie Druin is reporting that the Suns have some willing trade partners for Ayton. Assuming that teams have signaled these players are available. The players mentioned are:

Hawks/Capella
Pistons/Grant
Blazer/Nurkic

Some of the stuff I am hearing is crap IMO or craptastic trade scenarios. The only one I would consider is Capella.

I think Grant is a FA after next year and he’s really not that good.

Nurkic is always hurt

Capela on his own is a no. Capela and Collins is a yes

 

[Mainstreet]

Rarely happens. Find me some examples where it wasn’t a pupu player for a star. In order for it to be star for star you have to have two disgruntled stars.

I think we agree.

Unless the Suns can get a star or potential star in return in a sign and trade, they should re-sign Ayton and explore trade options down the road if it doesn't work out. The Suns are too limited in what they can do in a sign and trade.

 

[Mainstreet]

I completely disagree. I know Cp was a disaster those last 4 games, but we could trade him in a heartbeat. If you think the media and other teams are questioning the Phoenix Suns because of the situation with DA it would be 10 times worse if we decided to move Chris Paul this summer. And it should be.

Joe

I think the Suns will give it it another run with Chris Paul next season.

However, I'd listen to trade offers for Chris Paul if the desire to part ways is mutual. The Suns have enjoyed a 2 year window as a contender so it's not like the relationship didn't work.

I'd like to hear any ideas if you think he could easily be traded.

 

[Finito]

I think the Suns will give it it another run with Chris Paul next season.

However, I'd listen to trade offers for Chris Paul if the desire to part ways is mutual. The Suns have enjoyed a 2 year window as a contender so it's not like the relationship didn't work.

I'd like to hear any ideas if you think he could easily be traded.

I think he could. Especially if the Monty stuff is true. I think this is the last guaranteed year on his deal coming up.

I cannot see us going into next year with Paul. He’s just not that guy.

 

[Mainstreet]

I think he could. Especially if the Monty stuff is true. I think this is the last guaranteed year on his deal coming up.

I cannot see us going into next year with Paul. He’s just not that guy.

Chris Paul is guaranteed amount $45 million:

$28,400,000 in 2022-23

and $15,800,000 in 2023-24

I'm not sure why another team would take on this amount of salary.