Suns Off-season Thread

[Proximo]

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I really hope that means the plan is to make him a primary weapon on offense.

 

[Chaplin]

There were probably a dozen games where his presence saved the day for us prior to acquiring Biyombo in early January. Keep in mind, Ayton missed 24 games last season and until we signed BB we had no real backup other than McGee. I know he was huge for us in wins against Houston, New Orleans (twice I believe), Memphis and Indiana but I'm sure there were several more.

Right but there’s a difference between being forced in a starting role because of Ayton and being relatively nonexistent in the playoffs when we had everyone available.

I will concede he helped win a few games early, but if the team as a whole is judged on the final month of the season, why does McGee get an exception because he played well 6 months previous to that?

 

[AzStevenCal]

Right but there’s a difference between being forced in a starting role because of Ayton and being relatively nonexistent in the playoffs when we had everyone available.

I will concede he helped win a few games early, but if the team as a whole is judged on the final month of the season, why does McGee get an exception because he played well 6 months previous to that?

I can't say with any confidence that I have an explanation for what happened to this team during the final month of the 2022 campaign and I have no idea where to place the blame for the collapse. McGee doesn't stand out for me either positively or negatively during this stretch.

Regardless of how it ended, I appreciate what Javale gave us when the team was rolling. He was one of the more impactful bench players across the league IMO. It would have been nice to have kept him but I don't believe we'll be hurt much by his absence.

 

[Chaplin]

I can't say with any confidence that I have an explanation for what happened to this team during the final month of the 2022 campaign and I have no idea where to place the blame for the collapse. McGee doesn't stand out for me either positively or negatively during this stretch.

Regardless of how it ended, I appreciate what Javale gave us when the team was rolling. He was one of the more impactful bench players across the league IMO. It would have been nice to have kept him but I don't believe we'll be hurt much by his absence.

Fair enough, and for the most part I agree with you.

 

[Mainstreet]

I've been trying to find some comments made by James Jones after the season where he expressed a need for more playmakers.

I haven't been able to find the quote, but this is exactly what the Suns need, even more so than a power forward, although I would gladly take both.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I've been trying to find some comments made by James Jones after the season where he expressed a need for more playmakers.

I haven't been able to find the quote, but this is exactly what the Suns need, even more so than a power forward, although I would gladly take both.

I can't remember whether he said playmaker or shot creator but yeah, he did point to that need.

 

[Mainstreet]

What's worse is I documented it, so I could find it later.

It could have been in a tweet or article, though. I will keep looking.

 

[Mainstreet]

Here are some notes I took from a radio interview with James Jones on Arizona Sports dated May 18th 2022 under the thread title:

"Why did Suns Collapse in Playoffs?"

Here is what I wrote down. Especially see item #5.

I took some notes on the James Jones interview on Arrizona Sports:


1. Mavs executed and made shots which put the pressure on the Suns.

2 . Suns didn't have it to start game 7.

4. In regard to resting players, guys want to play. Other guys have to pick up the slack and be better.

5. Suns need better scoring, play making and balance to put pressure on the rim.

6. Ayton's free agency will be addressed at proper time. The same with Cam Johnson.

7. Jones believes Ayton wants to be back.

8. All roster options are OPEN.


The big takeaway for me was #5: The Suns need more scoring, play making and ability to get to the rim.

 

[Mainstreet]

I found the link to the podcast with James Jones on Arizona Sports which should talk about the reasons for the Suns collapse in the playoffs among other things including discussion about Deandre Ayton.

Suns GM believes Deandre Ayton returns: 'He's a big part of what we do'

Phoenix Suns GM James Jones told Burns & Gambo on Wednesday that he believes Deandre Ayton will be back with the team next season.

arizonasports.com

 

[Finito]

Here are some notes I took from a radio interview with James Jones on Arizona Sports dated May 18th 2022 under the thread title:

"Why did Suns Collapse in Playoffs?"

Here is what I wrote down. Especially see item #5.

Didn’t Monty also say something very similar.

 

[Fumats20]

This is what irritates me most about the throwing away of Smith: that if they even saw the evidence of strong character, they didn't value it enough to keep it for the future. I felt forced to concede that no, there was currently no room for Smith to play. It was just the attitude that I perceived from the Suns. I like Bismack Biyombo, and note that he appears to be also a man of character; but long-term, Jalen Smith would probably be a better backup center and, notably, a counterpoint to DeAndre Ayton's reputed immaturity.

Everything that's going on now is simply the opposite extreme from the degrading Tank years: sacrificing the future to win immediately with a team that most people don't call any overwhelming favorite for a championship. (Which is kind of fascinating considering how much time we spend marveling at how great in the clutch they are.) It's stubbornly and willfully myopic.

It would have been interesting to see what happen with Smith had the Suns took any number of the other players the Suns "passed" on. Most of those passed on players were 1s, 2s and 3s playing 30+ minutes taking 15 shots.....and it would be interesting to see what Monty would have done with them and who amongst the core would have been affected. Shamet was really good in the Nets system because he was a major option. It's hard to produce the same output in a lesser role. And he's a vet...same as what Crowder was to Miami

Most think they would thrive and the Suns would have won with them.

 

[Mainstreet]

Listening to the above podcast again, the things James Jones mentioned the Suns need to get back to the Finals are as follows:

a. the players here need to be better.
b. More scoring and play making.
c. Better balance offensively.
d. And put pressure on the rim.

 

[Mainstreet]

Didn’t Monty also say something very similar.

Monty very well might have, but I remember the podcast with James Jones better.

 

[Superbone]

Listening to the above podcast again, the things James Jones mentioned the Suns need to get back to the Finals are as follows:

a. the players here need to be better.
b. More scoring and play making.
c. Better balance offensively.
d. And put pressure on the rim.

I listened again as well. Regarding more scoring and playmaking, he mentions how that can come internally or externally. Well, for the time being, it's looking like that it is going to have to come from the current group's improvement.

 

[Fumats20]

What? That's great (for them); but--power forward? You people here all opined in no uncertain terms that Jalen Smith just doesn't make a good power forward; I think the gist of what you said was that he doesn't have the correct moves. That he is a traditional center. Is it just that the Pacers don't know that and want to see for themselves?

If Smith actually can play PF effectively, that would make the Suns' dumping of him look even more shortsighted, in that they desperately need more depth at power forward.


I wonder whether Smith bothered to explicitly tell them that himself. If he didn't bother, then there was a disastrous failure in communication on both sides.

Playing from the Center spot using the power forward skills is what he was good at at Maryland, the stretch of good games he played with the Suns and at Indiana. He was never stand in the corner waiting for the 3 player.

When Monty said he didn't know Smith was good at rebounding at Maryland when Monty was asked about Smith play after Monty returned from covid, when Smith was 3rd in the nation for double doubles and Maryland went from bottom of the barrel rebounding team to top 5-10 in the nation when Smith arrived....told me Monty didn't know who Smith was.

 

[Mainstreet]

I listened again as well. Regarding more scoring and playmaking, he mentions how that can come internally or externally. Well, for the time being, it's looking like that it is going to have to come from the current group's improvement.

Unless Duane Washinton Jr. turns into that player, I think the Suns still need to address more scoring and play making.

This is what I'm going to keep an eye on going forward, although Bojan would fill at least one of these needs... scoring and 3 point shooting.

 

[Muggz]

Playing from the Center spot using the power forward skills is what he was good at at Maryland, the stretch of good games he played with the Suns and at Indiana. He was never stand in the corner waiting for the 3 player.

When Monty said he didn't know Smith was good at rebounding at Maryland when Monty was asked about Smith play after Monty returned from covid, when Smith was 3rd in the nation for double doubles and Maryland went from bottom of the barrel rebounding team to top 5-10 in the nation when Smith arrived....told me Monty didn't know who Smith was.

I'm actually glad Stix got moved because he's def not an NBA ready PF, he is passable as a backup 3rd string center in the NBA but only just.
The fact that we got Tori Craig for him when we could/should have gone after Hailiburton in the first place is very Sunslike and par for the course.
James Jones needs to step his game up and find the parts we've needed for the last 4-5 years.
Maybe we should move our requirements up more than "good enough to marry Montes Daughter".
We could use a few "Stay the hell away from my daughter" types.

 

[Mainstreet]

Dario Saric had 12 points, 9 rebounds and 6 assists in Croatia's loss to Finland.

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[elindholm]

I really hope that means the plan is to make him a primary weapon on offense.

That will be a painful process if it happens. He's not that kind of player. Attempts to force-feed him during his first four seasons have usually gone badly. It's much better for him to be assertive in a secondary role, psychologically ready to punish defenses for focusing their efforts elsewhere.

 

[Fumats20]

I'm actually glad Stix got moved because he's def not an NBA ready PF, he is passable as a backup 3rd string center in the NBA but only just.
The fact that we got Tori Craig for him when we could/should have gone after Hailiburton in the first place is very Sunslike and par for the course.
James Jones needs to step his game up and find the parts we've needed for the last 4-5 years.
Maybe we should move our requirements up more than "good enough to marry Montes Daughter".
We could use a few "Stay the hell away from my daughter" types.

I'm quite sure Smith is glad he was moved too where he's shown he was the top 20 prospect he was projected. He will forever be in the shadows of how the Monty dealt with him. He's got a lot to prove and looks like Carlisle is giving him all the opportunity to do it....ironically as the 2nd big on the court a.k.a. the power forward position based on actually doing it when he got traded.

 

[Cheesebeef]

That will be a painful process if it happens. He's not that kind of player. Attempts to force-feed him during his first four seasons have usually gone badly. It's much better for him to be assertive in a secondary role, psychologically ready to punish defenses for focusing their efforts elsewhere.

He showed a lot more growth there when Paul was out last season and when Booker was out against NO. Both instances were limited games (Paul 17 games and Book’s 4) but there was progression there, especially during Paul’s absence which really surprised me.

And it might be a case of no pain, no gain if this team actually wants to win a title because if they don’t get a legit option to switch up the offense, they ain’t winning jack.

 

[Fumats20]

Okay, so we have conflicting opinions and I'm trying to reconcile them. Fumats, and also the Pacers, think that Smith is a competent power forward, although interestingly Fumats states that Smith uses PF skills from the C position. (I'm still unpacking the logic of that.) Muggs counters no, Smith is "not an NBA ready PF," which was closer to the usual opinion given around here.

The Pacers probably knew what they were doing in signing Smith. They swindled the Suns. I predict that the Pacers break into the playoffs in 2023, possibly led by Smith.

What's a post up poward forward Jones says he wants?

Smith plays better inside out than only out.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Ah-ha. I think I understand now. The people who claim Smith is no power forward mean that he's not the contemporary type of power forward. Not a 6-10 shooting guard. Am I right? That would make Smith's dumping even sadder, because a tall, inside-playing, strong rebounding power forward is exactly what the Suns needed all along.

No, I think the people who claim Smith is no power forward watched him struggle to understand rotations and defensive responsibilities of the power forward position.

We were focused on competing at the highest levels so we probably made a mistake drafting a player that wasn't ready for the NBA especially given the position switch we envisioned for him. Then, having sold off our minor league team, we made no allowances to bring this kid along once we drafted him.

Also, from at least one source, Jalen had no idea about the kind of work ethic he needed to survive in the NBA. Throw in the fact that during his rookie year the summer league was cancelled, preseason was shortened, he went down with an injury early in the season and then followed that up with Covid (maybe switch the order?) and it should be understandable why things didn't go well for him or for us his first season.

By the time we needed to make what was typically just a rubber stamp decision on a 3rd year extension, we still had no clue what his future could look like. So we made another mistake and opted to not extend him.

And while he signed for cheap with the Pacers, it's not reasonable to assume he'd have necessarily signed with us that cheaply. His opportunity for growth and playing time is much greater in Indiana and his agent surely knows this.

My only worry for the kid is that Carlisle is not easy to play for. I think he's a far better game coach than Williams but Monty, even though he's on a lower level, is the full package and Rick strains almost every basketball relationship he enters into. I don't always agree with Kendrick Perkins but here's what he said on ESPN: "Former players I talked to never say anything good about Rick Carlisle".

 

[Mainstreet]

The Suns made a mistake by not picking up the option on Jalen Smith. In my mind I can't find a way around it especially since they will use that money on Torrey Craig this coming season.

Anyone who prefers Craig over Smith can raise their hand.

I think the comment that might pertain to work ethic was made by Deandre Ayton.

There is some irony there because Ayton was criticized for playing video games too much.

 

[Superbone]

The Suns made a mistake by not picking up the option on Jalen Smith. In my mind I can't find a way around it especially since they will use that money on Torrey Craig this coming season.

I don’t get it either. I feel like there was some info we weren’t privy to.