Suns Off-season Thread

[Cheesebeef]

Just the word "operating" indicates that this describes mainly the front office's attitude; but I would need some kind of evidence to not think the players probably share it. Given that assumption, I don't think it's the safest and healthiest attitude for any team. After the humiliation of last playoffs, the Suns ought to view themselves as only a borderline championship contender. The Warriors and Bucks are both probably better: the Bucks earned the claim (if not the certainty) in 2021; and the Warriors have their dynastic pedigree and their solid regular-season results vs. the Suns. And the Celtics are probably as good a playoff team or better as the Suns.

I'm disappointed, because the attitude described sounds encouraging of further arrogance. So what if their regular-season record in 2022 was the best? The Phoenix Suns have gone there before in their history: earning a great regular-season record and no championship. The playoffs are too different from the regular season; and they matter more. Other Suns teams have played tougher and with more heart in the playoffs, despite having only a "pretty good" regular season win-loss record.

I would like to hear some indication that the players feel like Michael Jordan felt after the Magic beat his Bulls in 1995. That they're still angry at their humiliation, and want to make every other team pay, next season. But they have given absolutely no such hint in any public statement, that I know of.

Oh yeah… how did that work out for Booker and Co who constantly talked about last year being a “revenge tour” after they blew the Finals in 2021?

Talk is cheap.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Oh yeah… how did that work out for Booker and Co who constantly talked about last year being a “revenge tour” after they blew the Finals in 2021?

Talk is cheap.

I frequently heard them mention being on a mission or having unfinished business. I cringed though when I heard Booker actually say "revenge tour" in a late season postgame interview but that was the only time I heard those words used publicly. Do you have other examples of their use?

 

[Cheesebeef]

That's great, but the childish "revenge tour" remark was last season. I have only right now in mind. I want to hear that they give a rat's rear end about suffering the most embarrassing playoff defeat in Suns history. I do not know or assume that, because they refuse to talk. The only response I've ever seen (besides explicitly refusing to talk) was obnoxiously flippant--of course I mean Devin Booker's "we ok?" tweet.

By the way, the "revenge tour" remark sounded rather like something Amare Stoudemire would say.

WTF? You’re speaking out of both sides of your mouth. You want the guys to be talking about how bad they want to make up for last season but when pointed out they did that all last season, you still find ways to blast them.

Sorry man… that’s idiotic.

 

[Hoop Head]

WTF? You’re speaking out of both sides of your mouth. You want the guys to be talking about how bad they want to make up for last season but when pointed out they did that all last season, you still find ways to blast them.

Sorry man… that’s idiotic.

He's not a fan, he's admitted as much, and it becomes more obvious the more he posts. All he wants to do is rip the team for something, it doesn't matter why. He's fine with contradicting himself as long as he's got some negative narrative to hold on to.

 

[Covert Rain]

Revenge tour stuff is utter garbage. First, nobody buys your teams needs revenge after being so close to winning it all. No other team cares. Second, if your team needs "revenge" to put you over the top? You have bigger issues.

 

[Covert Rain]

Yeah, but do you think Booker took "revenge tour" seriously anyway? I don't. It was just bravado, from the guy who says things like "that's my mother******* shot." [shrug] It's the same impulse that led Amare Stoudemire to childishly scream "and one" after scoring.

That particular remark is also irrelevant to what concerned me. There, a Suns player was at least saying something (if an empty remark that can be ignored). More recently, they're refusing to say anything at all. Even if the players again indulged in useless remarks threatening to "take revenge on the league" for their humiliation, I would not consider it a waste of my time, not exactly. Because it would at least signal that they care; and even that alone, as practically useless as it is, is more than they've done all summer. Come on, Suns, get mad. You can't show us anything practical till preseason; but until then, you can give us a hint.

This is still utter garbage. If your team has to "get mad" to motivate them to do anything? They are not leaders, and they certainly don't have what it takes. Any type of motivation you generate from short term reactions doesn't last. We are all creatures of habit, and you will return to what you are. You either are the type of person who can self-motivate, or you aren't.

 

[Carolinacacti]

We all know which player on the Suns needs motivation.

 

[Chaplin]

Who gives a crap what Booker says? The guy backs up his bravado with his play and that’s all that matters.

 

[elindholm]

Who gives a crap what Booker says? The guy backs up his bravado with his play and that’s all that matters.

Except he doesn't. The more he talks, the worse he plays.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Except he doesn't. The more he talks, the worse he plays.

Yeah… he certainly didn’t back up his trash talk in Game 6 or 7 last year when he was atrocious against Dallas.

Or Game 6 the previous year when he was awful in the close out game in the Finals.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Wanders in to see all the positivity from Sarver being out. Sees Booker bashing...wanders back out.

 

[Chaplin]

Except he doesn't. The more he talks, the worse he plays.

Not true.

Tired of fans trying to tear down our players. What else besides shutting up do you want him to do?

The guy has proven time and again that he is a great player but it’s never enough.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Wanders in to see all the positivity from Sarver being out. Sees Booker bashing...wanders back out.

You’re in the wrong thread.

 

[elindholm]

Not true.

Tired of fans trying to tear down our players. What else besides shutting up do you want him to do?

I want him to learn that there's an inverse relationship between how much he makes it about himself and how well he succeeds in delivering the goods.

 

[Chaplin]

I want him to learn that there's an inverse relationship between how much he makes it about himself and how well he succeeds in delivering the goods.

That’s fair but has his talk really affected his “delivering the goods?” Or at least for any extended period of time?

 

[elindholm]

That’s fair but has his talk really affected his “delivering the goods?” Or at least for any extended period of time?

It would be difficult to break down the correlation rigorously, but anecdotally, it sure seems to be there. He makes poorer decisions when he's trying to be The Man, and it's often prompted by some imagined slight he thinks he has picked up on somewhere.

 

[Chaplin]

It would be difficult to break down the correlation rigorously, but anecdotally, it sure seems to be there. He makes poorer decisions when he's trying to be The Man, and it's often prompted by some imagined slight he thinks he has picked up on somewhere.

You’re right it would take a more defined deep dive, but I don’t see this as much of a problem. One of those “it might be nice” but no player is perfect and a lot of stars suffer from the same thing. Especially in pro sports. On a list of Suns problems this would be far down it. IMO of course.

 

[GatorAZ]

Holmgren out now SGA has a knee issue and will miss some time. OKC punting on another season so I’d still try to get SGA:
.

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[1tinsoldier]

indeed, i often said many of the best players step up and get better when riled, but Booker isn't one of them -- he usually gets sloppy.

and while i have the cover of a few others critiquing Booker, i'll add -- tying in with the topic of this thread

Booker missed a great opportunity to add to his rep and lead on the Sarver issue by speaking up

"there's even more important things in this life, son,
than nailing one of the highest salaries in Sports history, the cover of NBA2K, and a supermodel"
(while that is a lot for one season, i would have been more impressed by the Sarver condemnation)

 

[Phrazbit]

Holmgren out now SGA has a knee issue and will miss some time. OKC punting on another season so I’d still try to get SGA:
.

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He has missed a ton of time over the last few seasons.

 

[Hoop Head]

He has missed a ton of time over the last few seasons.

But he also plays for a team that is in tank mode. It's hard to accurately judge how many games he missed because he couldn't suit up and how many OKC preferred he sat.

 

[Raindog]

Isn't SGA also getting max money now?

 

[Phrazbit]

But he also plays for a team that is in tank mode. It's hard to accurately judge how many games he missed because he couldn't suit up and how many OKC preferred he sat.

Two years ago he suffered a legit season ender, torn ligaments in his foot.

Last year he had a concussion and a reoccurring ankle injury, they only shut him down at the very end of March, after he'd rolled it again a week or so earlier.

Maybe he could have made it back for the last week or 2, but through either bad luck or fragility he has missed a ton of time.

But... it sounds as though the franchise's pockets are about to get much much deeper so taking a chance on a SGA becomes much more palpable.

 

[AzStevenCal]

...Back around Booker's second year, around the end of the Goran Dragic era, there was a little talk about trading him. I was pleased that they didn't trade him. You probably just don't trade a player who can drop 70 on an opponent, unless he forces you to trade him.

And, of course, there's the fact that Booker clearly doesn't have an injury-prone body.

I'm not sure what you mean by "talk" but to the best of my knowledge the Suns have never contemplated trading Booker. For the right offer no one is untradable but he's been as unavailable as they come since he started rattling off double digit games every night in the middle of his rookie season. Also, as I recall, Goran was traded midseason the year before we drafted Booker.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Fi

Fine, then I got my time periods scrambled; I find that understandable because the times of Dragic's departure and Booker's drafting were so close; but it's mostly beside the point. And I didn't say the Suns necessarily wanted to trade Booker. The whisperings that perhaps he should be traded might have been strictly from unhappy and desperate fans. (And all fans were presumably unhappy back then.) I wasn't closely following any whisperings about a Booker trade, since I didn't want to trade him.

Well, that's what I was asking (implied) when I said I wasn't sure what you meant. Did you mean the Suns were rumored to be talking about it or were you saying fans were talking about it. Fans trade every player every day it seems but most of the "we need to trade Devin" posts that I saw were from Lakers fans.