Suns @ Pelicans Thursday game thread 12-5-19

[Chris_Sanders]

The reality is that they are doubling off Rubio because he is shooting below 40%. So what had to happen last night is what happened, Rubio took control of the game when all the defensive attention went to Booker.

 

[Ronin]

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[mjb21aztd]

Scary but good win my heart was rscing on pelicans last attempt in 4th and in ot suns sure like to make it heart racing this season...

Awesome gm by Booker good to see him play like his usual self

I really like diallo play as of late what will happen to him upon ayton return?

Keep rising up suns!!!

Man tough gm next in houston...

 

[Mainstreet]

Scary but good win my heart was rscing on pelicans last attempt in 4th and in ot suns sure like to make it heart racing this season...

Awesome gm by Booker good to see him play like his usual self

I really like diallo play as of late what will happen to him upon ayton return?

Keep rising up suns!!!

Man tough gm next in houston...

My guess is the Suns will continue to develop Diallo although his minutes will likely drop when Ayton returns. Of course this is anticipating Baynes can shake off his injury problems.

What a great problem to have is getting minutes for another big man.

It could be the Suns decide to rest Baynes another game in Houston hoping to get him fully healthy.

 

[1Sun]

Hmmm. 44, 8, 9 on high efficiency in an overtime win and Booker’s a problem?

There were no empty stats by anyone in this game.

What did he do in the 4th Quarter and OT?

 

[Covert Rain]

Glad they gutted out the win. Interesting to me that book was going off and then they switched Jrue onto him and he was completely shut down. Despite the fact that Jrue is elite level defender that concerns me. Good to see monty realized they had to go away from book in overtime to win.

I am the opposite here. The old Booker despite being blanketed and double team would have chucked up really bad shots. His shot selection this year has been so much better.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

I am the opposite here. The old Booker despite being blanketed and double team would have chucked up really bad shots. His shot selection this year has been so much better.

And even with him being much more selective he is still like 17th in the league in 4th quarter scoring. Truth is there just aren't many guys who are consistently dragging their team to wins in the 4th quarter (Harden leads the league and is only 3 points better than Booker in the 4th). Booker could absolutely be better and I suspect he will get better as he gets more comfortable in his role on the team, but it's not like he has been bad either.

 

[Superbone]

I am the opposite here. The old Booker despite being blanketed and double team would have chucked up really bad shots. His shot selection this year has been so much better.

Yep. He did what he's supposed to do. He picked his spots. He's figuring out how to play with a more talented and better coached team.

 

[Cheesebeef]

My guess is the Suns will continue to develop Diallo although his minutes will likely drop when Ayton returns. Of course this is anticipating Baynes can shake off his injury problems.

What a great problem to have is getting minutes for another big man.

It could be the Suns decide to rest Baynes another game in Houston hoping to get him fully healthy.

I'd definitely let Baynes sit for another game. That would give him a full week of rest with three very winnable homes games coming up in a row and that pretty much gets us to Ayton coming back at the Clippers. Gonna try to go to that game. Clips tix are still pretty cheap, even for the lower level.

 

[JCSunsfan]

What did he do in the 4th Quarter and OT?

See post #101.

Again. There were no empty stats in this game. Without Booker its a blowout.

 

[Mainstreet]

I'd definitely let Baynes sit for another game. That would give him a full week of rest with three very winnable homes games coming up in a row and that pretty much gets us to Ayton coming back at the Clippers. Gonna try to go to that game. Clips tix are still pretty cheap, even for the lower level.

This is what will probably happen if there is any lingering question whether Baynes is ready to go.

Hope you are able to attend the Clippers game. I would enjoy hearing your feedback.

 

[Phrazbit]

Booker dropped 40+, in a victory, in a game vs one of the best defensive guards in the league... and we come away complaining about... Booker?

I just can't sometimes...

 

[BC867]

Booker dropped 40+, in a victory, in a game vs one of the best defensive guards in the league... and we come away complaining about... Booker?

I just can't sometimes...

The critiques of Devin as a clutch player have been based upon the
season-to-date, as they should. Your post is about one game.

We've lost a lot of close games this season because no one, including
Booker, has been able to carry the team to victory in those games.

It is like using a highlight reel to evaluate a season's performance.

Even with the personnel losses the Suns have endured, we could
have quite a record by winning those last few minutes of games.

Devin Booker is a damn good scorer, but he is not a great player
or a difference maker with the game on the line. That's how it is.

 

[Raze]

The critiques of Devin as a clutch player have been based upon the
season-to-date, as they should. Your post is about one game.

We've lost a lot of close games this season because no one, including
Booker, has been able to carry the team to victory in those games.

It is like using a highlight reel to evaluate a season's performance.

Even with the personnel losses the Suns have endured, we could
have quite a record by winning those last few minutes of games.

Devin Booker is a damn good scorer, but he is not a great player
or a difference maker with the game on the line. That's how it is.

I feel like I read this wrong. Are you saying that Devin isn't clutch? Because he is EXACTLY that. Clutch. Not perfect in the clutch. But very good. (Even Jordan wasn't perfect in the clutch.) Zimmerman wrote an article on it last year:

https://arizonasports.com/story/1725180/devin-booker-clutch-statistics-by-the-numbers/

I would agree that he hasn't taken over games when we've needed it this year, but I see that as a FULL buy-in on Monty and he's trying to honor his HC. If/when Monty gives him the green light, I think we'll see greatness unfold. The dude's got a killer instinct.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

I feel like I read this wrong. Are you saying that Devin isn't clutch? Because he is EXACTLY that. Clutch. Not perfect in the clutch. But very good. (Even Jordan wasn't perfect in the clutch.) Zimmerman wrote an article on it last year:

https://arizonasports.com/story/1725180/devin-booker-clutch-statistics-by-the-numbers/

I would agree that he hasn't taken over games when we've needed it this year, but I see that as a FULL buy-in on Monty and he's trying to honor his HC. If/when Monty gives him the green light, I think we'll see greatness unfold. The dude's got a killer instinct.

I mentioned this elsewhere, but Booker is currently 17th in 4th quarter scoring and Harden who is first is only about 3 points ahead of Booker. There just aren't many guys in the league that are consistently showing up big in 4th quarters to lead their team to wins. I would still like to see him do better, but it's not like he has been absolutely terrible either.

 

[Phrazbit]

The critiques of Devin as a clutch player have been based upon the
season-to-date, as they should. Your post is about one game.

We've lost a lot of close games this season because no one, including
Booker, has been able to carry the team to victory in those games.

It is like using a highlight reel to evaluate a season's performance.

Even with the personnel losses the Suns have endured, we could
have quite a record by winning those last few minutes of games.

Devin Booker is a damn good scorer, but he is not a great player
or a difference maker with the game on the line. That's how it is.

This is absolute nonsense. Booker, if anything, has been one of the best late game offensive players in the entire league throughout his career.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I mentioned this elsewhere, but Booker is currently 17th in 4th quarter scoring and Harden who is first is only about 3 points ahead of Booker. There just aren't many guys in the league that are consistently showing up big in 4th quarters to lead their team to wins. I would still like to see him do better, but it's not like he has been absolutely terrible either.

Teams are doing pretty well on double teaming stars in the 4th quarter and making other players beat them. That is what is happening to Booker. In the NO game he not only had one of the best guard defenders in the league on him (Jrue) he also drew a double team every time he touched the ball. They forced others to step up.

 

[BC867]

I would agree that he hasn't taken over games when we've needed it this year, but I see that as a FULL buy-in on Monty and he's trying to honor his HC. If/when Monty gives him the green light, I think we'll see greatness unfold. The dude's got a killer instinct.

I'm curious why you feel that, regardless of his game-long approach of not dribbling around
the ball, Monty has discouraged Book from taking over the last few minutes of close games.

And, if so, is it because Devin has shown that he is not among the elite in that regard?

I can anticipate the answer. That Book has been double-teamed. Understood! But part
of being elite is pinpoint passing to the open man. And Devin has had too many
turnovers as a distributor. He has not been an elite distributor. Which takes us right
back to the beginning. That Devin is lacking in some skills to be called an elite closer.

Perhaps that is why Monty (in your words) hasn't let him take over with the game
on the line.

Any coach, especially one as astute as Monty, would go with his best chance to win.

I also understand that a Guard or Wing has less of a chance to take over games than
a post player who takes higher percentage shots and forces free throws as well.

Only elite Guards and Wings can take control. They have to be perfectly skilled. And
that includes being able to shut down Guards and Wings on defense. I am actually
defending Devin. Enjoy his strong points, such as high scoring throughout a game,
but don't assume that makes him The Best in every aspect. That is reserved for
the very few superstars, not the best player on every team.

EDIT: JC's post about double-teaming just posted as I posted mine.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I'm curious why you feel that, regardless of his game-long approach of not dribbling around
the ball, Monty has discouraged Book from taking over the last few minutes of close games.

And, if so, is it because Devin has shown that he is not among the elite in that regard?

I can anticipate the answer. That Book has been double-teamed. Understood! But part
of being elite is pinpoint passing to the open man. And Devin has had too many
turnovers as a distributor. He has not been an elite distributor. Which takes us right
back to the beginning. That Devin is lacking in some skills to be called an elite closer.

Perhaps that is why Monty (in your words) hasn't let him take over with the game
on the line.

Any coach, especially one as astute as Monty, would go with his best chance to win.

I also understand that a Guard or Wing has less of a chance to take over games than
a post player who takes higher percentage shots and forces free throws as well.

Only elite Guards and Wings can take control. They have to be perfectly skilled. And
that includes being able to shut down Guards and Wings on defense. I am actually
defending Devin. Enjoy his strong points, such as high scoring throughout a game,
but don't assume that makes him The Best in every aspect. That is reserved for
the very few superstars, not the best player on every team.

EDIT: JC's post about double-teaming just posted as I posted mine.

Booker had one bad pass turnover in the fourth quarter and overtime. He had one other turnover, but that was an offensive foul. This theory doesn't stand up.

Monty's system is based upon sharing the ball. It means you have to pass when you don't have the shot. For the most part Booker is doing that and doing it well. He is not playing pg at all this year. He is struggling a little right now because he is getting double teamed in the fourth and he does not have Baynes to set picks for him. Those screens were getting him good shots earlier in the year. Even Jrue Holliday is going to struggle to defend Devin when Baynes is standing in the way.

 

[BC867]

Booker had one bad pass turnover in the fourth quarter and overtime. He had one other turnover, but that was an offensive foul. This theory doesn't stand up.

As previously posted, citing one game does not represent a season.

Book has shown that he is not an elite passer. Not as a Point Guard,
not as a Shooting Guard and not with the game on the line.

'Nothing to be ashamed of. The term 'elite' in all regards is reserved
for the very few, not the star of each team.

 

[JCSunsfan]

As previously posted, citing one game does not represent a season.

Book has shown that he is not an elite passer. Not as a Point Guard,
not as a Shooting Guard and not with the game on the line.

'Nothing to be ashamed of. The term 'elite' in all regards is reserved
for the very few, not the star of each team.

He is second in the league in assists among SG's, unless you count Jrue, then he is third. I guess there is no elite passer among SG's then, so it would be an unrealistic expectation.

 

[BC867]

He is second in the league in assists among SG's, unless you count Jrue, then he is third. I guess there is no elite passer among SG's then, so it would be an unrealistic expectation.

And with Book handling the ball so much, despite having Rubio,
so much double teams, which diminishes his scoring when the
game is on the line.

Being second, or third, in assists among SG's seems to be
hurting more than helping. He still brings up the ball much
too often.

I'd like to see a clear delineation. Booker is a SHOOTING guard.

 

[Phrazbit]

And with Book handling the ball so much, despite having Rubio,
so much double teams, which diminishes his scoring when the
game is on the line.

Being second, or third, in assists among SG's seems to be
hurting more than helping. He still brings up the ball much
too often.

I'd like to see a clear delineation. Booker is a SHOOTING guard.

We're the 5th most efficient offense in the entire league... your complaints do not jive with reality.

Furthermore, I don't get how you can complain that Booker isn't taking over the games the way you'd like then turn around and propose to turn Booker into a role player as some sort of solution to a non-existent problem.

 

[BC867]

We're the 5th most efficient offense in the entire league... your complaints do not jive with reality.

Furthermore, I don't get how you can complain that Booker isn't taking over the games the way you'd like then turn around and propose to turn Booker into a role player as some sort of solution to a non-existent problem.

Being an outstanding Shooting Guard is hardly a role player. When he is a
distributor and well as scorer, he invites double teams. Especially when he
continues to bring the ball up.

Devin Booker should be moving constantly WITHOUT the ball. And concentrate
on being a scorer, not a distributor. It would also allow him to concentrate on
the other important aspect of his position, defense, where he is deficient.

Are we the 5th most efficient defense in the league? It is half of the job.

 

[Phrazbit]

Being an outstanding Shooting Guard is hardly a role player. When he is a
distributor and well as scorer, he invites double teams. Especially when he
continues to bring the ball up.

Devin Booker should be moving constantly WITHOUT the ball. And concentrate
on being a scorer, not a distributor. It would also allow him to concentrate on
the other important aspect of his position, defense, where he is deficient.

Are we the 5th most efficient defense in the league? It is half of the job.

Outstanding shooting guards are all ball handlers. He does move without the ball.

But correlating our defensive struggles with Booker getting... too many assists... that is some wild dot connecting.