Suns play

[jagu]

What is that play the Suns run when Dragic goes over to the wing of the three point line and passes to Gortat who is also at the 3 point line? What a useless waste of time. There are some plays that just takes the ball out of Dragic's hands which makes no sense. If you are planning on turning him into a passing guard then you need to design plays where he can penetrate and free up shooters. Handing it off to Gortat seems like the worst idea possible. They did this nonsense last year as well with Robin Lopez getting the ball at the 3 point line.

 

[jagu]

There is no good flow in the Suns offense. It's more like standing around and shooting at this moment. And when Dragic does find a guy open the shooter misses it. Lot's of poor perimeter shooting has put this team in big holes. No one seems to want to pass up their chance to chuck either. Only guy who has been making shots in chuck mode has been Brown.

 

[BC867]

There is no good flow in the Suns offense. It's more like standing around and shooting at this moment. And when Dragic does find a guy open the shooter misses it. Lot's of poor perimeter shooting has put this team in big holes. No one seems to want to pass up their chance to chuck either. Only guy who has been making shots in chuck mode has been Brown.

I agree. It is frustrating to see our shooters missing easy 18 foot shots that NBA players should make again and again, then seeing our opponents make the same shots after they rebound.

Also, our starters falling far behind at the start of the game (as they have in the last two), then playing catchup for the rest of the game, takes its toll physically and emotionally. Dragic, whether at the Point or switching to Shooting Guard during the 4th quarter, has been exhausted in the last two games.

The starting lineup needs to change immediately. Starting with Dudley. And, although they won't do it, Beasley, too.

 

[jagu]

I thought Beasley would be good but after watching him this year I'm convinced he won't be any better. His basketball IQ is simply too low for him to grow into a better player. I actually think if he was smarter he'd be a terrific NBA player. There were a few times yesterday where he passed up driving for a long jumper even when the defense in the paint was thin. For a guy his size he should go for more contact / free throws but these plays are exactly why he doesn't shoot many free throws. All this said you will see some great games from Beasley because his talent sometimes outplays his brain (on certain nights).

 

[AzStevenCal]

I agree. It is frustrating to see our shooters missing easy 18 foot shots that NBA players should make again and again, then seeing our opponents make the same shots after they rebound.

Also, our starters falling far behind at the start of the game (as they have in the last two), then playing catchup for the rest of the game, takes its toll physically and emotionally. Dragic, whether at the Point or switching to Shooting Guard during the 4th quarter, has been exhausted in the last two games.

The starting lineup needs to change immediately. Starting with Dudley. And, although they won't do it, Beasley, too.

I'm probably alone on this but I'd keep Beasley on the court along with Dragic, Telfair, Brown and Gortat. And then I'd go in search of a power forward that thinks defense is more than just trying to draw the charge. I'm not as enamored of Scola as most here are. I think he has a lot to do with our poor defensive starts. Granted, he's had a couple of games where his scoring and his passing have jump-started our offense but with that incredibly weak mid-range shot, it's pretty easy to take him out of his game.

Steve

 

[desertdawg]

I agree. It is frustrating to see our shooters missing easy 18 foot shots that NBA players should make again and again, then seeing our opponents make the same shots after they rebound.

Also, our starters falling far behind at the start of the game (as they have in the last two), then playing catchup for the rest of the game, takes its toll physically and emotionally. Dragic, whether at the Point or switching to Shooting Guard during the 4th quarter, has been exhausted in the last two games.

The starting lineup needs to change immediately. Starting with Dudley. And, although they won't do it, Beasley, too.

That's how a Gentry coached team performs. Had the same problem here last year, while Nash (who was also always exhausted) was still with us. Team needs a new coach, quick, but we didn't scoop one when the scooping was good. Maybe we'll wait for the first good coach to get canned this year, or we'll just ride the suck train until the wheels fall off....giving our next head coach a decent draft. Draft sounds good and all but Sarver aint gonna pony up that scrilla when it comes to serious talent via F.A.

So if we land a nice somebody in the draft, it might not even be the best talent in our spot. Sarver will probably go NY JETS on us and pick someone he believes will fill up the building, a straight crowd draw. Gentry has to go one way or the other.

 

[AzStevenCal]

That's how a Gentry coached team performs. Had the same problem here last year, while Nash (who was also always exhausted) was still with us. Team needs a new coach, quick, but we didn't scoop one when the scooping was good. Maybe we'll wait for the first good coach to get canned this year, or we'll just ride the suck train until the wheels fall off....giving our next head coach a decent draft. Draft sounds good and all but Sarver aint gonna pony up that scrilla when it comes to serious talent via F.A.

So if we land a nice somebody in the draft, it might not even be the best talent in our spot. Sarver will probably go NY JETS on us and pick someone he believes will fill up the building, a straight crowd draw. Gentry has to go one way or the other.

Well, for the most part, I pretty much agree with your use of punctuation.

Steve

 

[95pro]

Our 2 guard needs to be making shots, plain and simple for duds. He's not athletic enough to drive in, or to create his own shot, or even finish at the rim. If he ain't making jump shots he's useless on offense.

Beasley...guy just needs to keep attacking the rim. He's shown when he gets by his man he can make a good pass. He just needs the other half of that equation, and that is to finish the play himself near the rim.

If he attacks that's going to start sucking the defense in, and opening shots for the guards and scolas midrange shot.

The key really is Beasley, but so far it's jumper after jumper even when there's room to attack.

 

[Broseph]

They are not making shots, and it's brutally painful to watch teams build up 20+ leads and watch the Suns try and heroically come back. It was nice to see them come back against the Cavs, but man they are looking like a really bad basketball team this year.

 

[Mainstreet]

The Suns have always run their PGs until exhaustion under DA and Gentry. I can't remember about Porter. The thing is, Telfair is a decent backup PG and there are two others on the roster waiting for a chance to play. I'm starting to worry about Dragic getting injured like I used to worry about Steve Nash getting injured when played to exhausition.

 

[desertdawg]

Well, for the most part, I pretty much agree with your use of punctuation.

Steve

And you sir, have some might fine punchuation.

 

[elindholm]

The Suns have always run their PGs until exhaustion under DA and Gentry.

I always thought it was a myth that Nash was exhausted by the end of the season. His performance dropped off, but that's because more fouling is permitted after the All-Star Break, and particularly in the playoffs. Nash's game has always been based on space and finesse, and he can't be as effective when the game becomes more "physical," but that's not a fatigue issue.

 

[Mainstreet]

I always thought it was a myth that Nash was exhausted by the end of the season. His performance dropped off, but that's because more fouling is permitted after the All-Star Break, and particularly in the playoffs. Nash's game has always been based on space and finesse, and he can't be as effective when the game becomes more "physical," but that's not a fatigue issue.

As I recall, especially around the MVP years, DA was reluctant to take Nash out of games because he was not confident in anyone else to run the show. It got to the point where I was more concerned about Nash staying healthy than winning games. DA would put Nash back in the game at the slightest provocation when things started to go South. Of course Nash was younger back then.

I see similarties playing Dragic too many minutes because Dragic not only expends considerable energy on the offensive end but even moreso on the defensive end. Also it is more than minutes played, it is how much energy is expended. Dragic was clearly beyond exhaustion after the Cavaliers game and it was quite revealing in the postgame interview.

 

[elindholm]

As I recall, especially around the MVP years, DA was reluctant to take Nash out of games because he was not confident in anyone else to run the show. It got to the point where I was more concerned about Nash staying healthy than winning games. DA would put Nash back in the game at the slightest provocation when things started to go South. Of course Nash was younger back then.

It sounds like you're talking about fatigue on a game-by-game basis, rather than over the course of a season. I don't know of any evidence that players are more likely to get injured when fatigued, but I agree that Nash's frequent errors at the ends of close games looked as though they could be the result of having played too many minutes already that evening.

Dragic was clearly beyond exhaustion after the Cavaliers game and it was quite revealing in the postgame interview.

They're world-class athletes. They get exhausted, then they recover, then they're ready to go again. It shouldn't have any long-term effects.

 

[BC867]

They're world-class athletes. They get exhausted, then they recover, then they're ready to go again. It shouldn't have any long-term effects.

And if Dragic is exhausted in the 4th quarter of every game (whether he is playing PG or SG) and his opposing Guard is fresher, it puts Goran at a disadvantage, which puts the Suns at a further disadvantage.

He ain't playing solitaire! There is someone in his face, or outrunning him, on offense and defense every moment.

His exhaustion, as Mainstreet pointed out, is of even more concern than Nash's, because he expends it at both ends of the court and Steve did not. And this is just the beginning of the season.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

The Suns have always run their PGs until exhaustion under DA and Gentry. I can't remember about Porter. The thing is, Telfair is a decent backup PG and there are two others on the roster waiting for a chance to play. I'm starting to worry about Dragic getting injured like I used to worry about Steve Nash getting injured when played to exhausition.

What?!

Dragic is averaging 34 minutes per game and Nash never averaged more than 35 minutes during his years with the Suns. Dragic was exhausted because he plays at full speed at all times, but Nash exhaustion was more due to the fact that he is old and can't handle an entire NBA season anymore.

 

[Mainstreet]

What?!

Dragic is averaging 34 minutes per game and Nash never averaged more than 35 minutes during his years with the Suns. Dragic was exhausted because he plays at full speed at all times, but Nash exhaustion was more due to the fact that he is old and can't handle an entire NBA season anymore.

Huh?!

Minutes is not always a key indicator when a player is expending tremendous energy on both ends of the court. If you watched Steve Nash play during his MVP years you would have seen him exert tremendous energy setting up the Suns offensive game from the inside out with his drives to the basket and along the baseline. He was not a two time MVP (and should have been a third year) for nothing. Although Nash was not a great defensive player he exerted the defensive effort and ignited SSOL. You cannot evaluate Nash just upon his later years with the Suns.

 

[BC867]

What?!

Dragic is averaging 34 minutes per game and Nash never averaged more than 35 minutes during his years with the Suns. Dragic was exhausted because he plays at full speed at all times, but Nash exhaustion was more due to the fact that he is old and can't handle an entire NBA season anymore.

I don't get it! You questioned Mainstreet's analysis that "The Suns have always run their PGs until exhaustion under DA and Gentry.", by explaining why Nash and Dragic have both played exhausted.

Isn't it up to the coach to assure that his players are competitive all through the game and all through the season?

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

I don't get it! You questioned Mainstreet's analysis that "The Suns have always run their PGs until exhaustion under DA and Gentry.", by explaining why Nash and Dragic have both played exhausted.

Isn't it up to the coach to assure that his players are competitive all through the game and all through the season?

My point is that it isn't on the coach that they are exhausted. It's not like they are playing huge minutes and are actually playing pretty low minutes for key starters. For Steve it has a lot to do with age and in Dragic's case it is because he plays himself into exhaustion. What was the coach supposed to do to stop this? Last year Nash took some games off simply so he could rest and only played 31 minutes a game and so far this year Dragic is only playing 34 minutes a game. Is the coach supposed to tell Dragic to stop playing so hard?

 

[BC867]

Is the coach supposed to tell Dragic to stop playing so hard?

Yes!

An NBA season, with its up-and-back action (unlike baseball and football) is not a sprint. It's a marathon.

Part of a coach's responsibility is to teach his team to be almost as effective during every 4th quarter and as the season wears on.

We are only 7 games into the season and are already talking about exhaustion. Exhaustion leads to foul trouble and injury. It is why the Suns, and Nash in particular, always wore down as the season progressed and into the post-season.

Of course it is up to the coach to set the pace for the long haul.

 

[SirStefan32]

If a twenty-something PG is exhausted after playing 32 or 34 minutes, we're in even bigger trouble than I thought we were.

I also challenge the notion that exhaustion has anything to do with injuries. That's an opinion, at best.

Nash failing in playoffs had nothing to do with him being tired- it had to do with him not being able to handle physical play that's allowed in playoffs.

Now, I am not saying that D'Antoni didn't play Nash more than most coaches would, and I am not saying that Gentry doesn't have serious issues with playing time management, but I really think that all this talk about exhaustion is just over the top.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Yes!

An NBA season, with its up-and-back action (unlike baseball and football) is not a sprint. It's a marathon.

Part of a coach's responsibility is to teach his team to be almost as effective during every 4th quarter and as the season wears on.

We are only 7 games into the season and are already talking about exhaustion. Exhaustion leads to foul trouble and injury. It is why the Suns, and Nash in particular, always wore down as the season progressed and into the post-season.

Of course it is up to the coach to set the pace for the long haul.

I understand your argument, but a big part of Dragic's effectiveness is his non stop motor asking him to slow down in the first 3 quarters simply means that we will be too far behind to catch up in the 4th. With Nash his effectiveness with D'Antoni at least was the non stop running that allowed us to simply outscore teams and slowing that down would have meant winning less games and likely an earlier playoff exit because we likely would have played the Spurs earlier in the playoffs.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

If a twenty-something PG is exhausted after playing 32 or 34 minutes, we're in even bigger trouble than I thought we were.

I also challenge the notion that exhaustion has anything to do with injuries. That's an opinion, at best.

Nash failing in playoffs had nothing to do with him being tired- it had to do with him not being able to handle physical play that's allowed in playoffs.

Now, I am not saying that D'Antoni didn't play Nash more than most coaches would, and I am not saying that Gentry doesn't have serious issues with playing time management, but I really think that all this talk about exhaustion is just over the top.

I don't feel like Dragic is literally exhausted right now, but he was at the end of the last couple games. A lot of that however is the fact that he played so hard getting back into games that they dug a whole in early in the game.

 

[elindholm]

If a twenty-something PG is exhausted after playing 32 or 34 minutes, we're in even bigger trouble than I thought we were.

I also challenge the notion that exhaustion has anything to do with injuries. That's an opinion, at best.

Nash failing in playoffs had nothing to do with him being tired- it had to do with him not being able to handle physical play that's allowed in playoffs.

Now, I am not saying that D'Antoni didn't play Nash more than most coaches would, and I am not saying that Gentry doesn't have serious issues with playing time management, but I really think that all this talk about exhaustion is just over the top.

Hopefully you'll have better luck making these points than I did.

 

[Mainstreet]

If a twenty-something PG is exhausted after playing 32 or 34 minutes, we're in even bigger trouble than I thought we were.

I also challenge the notion that exhaustion has anything to do with injuries. That's an opinion, at best.

Nash failing in playoffs had nothing to do with him being tired- it had to do with him not being able to handle physical play that's allowed in playoffs.

Now, I am not saying that D'Antoni didn't play Nash more than most coaches would, and I am not saying that Gentry doesn't have serious issues with playing time management, but I really think that all this talk about exhaustion is just over the top.

Once a player has exhausted his energy on the court it becomes obvious in terms of mental errors, increased fouling, flat shots, turnovers and perhaps an increased risk of injury. It's the coaches job, as BC867 notes, to recognize this. Playing a player who is clearly fatigued usually results in decreased production.