Suns @ Raptors game thread 12-5-17

[hsandhu]

Anthony davis had the same injury last week, and needed a wheelchair. But it wasn't as serious as it looked , hopefully same with booker. Maybe a couple weeks

 

[Mainstreet]

Anthony davis had the same injury last week, and needed a wheelchair. But it wasn't as serious as it looked , hopefully same with booker. Maybe a couple weeks

Let's hope. This is from ESPN.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/...vin-booker-leaves-game-strained-left-adductor

 

[SirStefan32]

Strained adductor can get pretty bad, but most of the time it's not that bad after the initial shock. You can't move for the first couple of hours, then it hurts like a **** for 2-3 days, and then you are mostly fine. I'd be surprised if he is not able to play in two weeks. That said, give him an extra week off. These injuries linger for months, so don't rush him back. I am anti-tank, but in this situation, there is no harm in giving Booker PLENTY of time to recover.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Strained adductor can get pretty bad, but most of the time it's not that bad after the initial shock. You can't move for the first couple of hours, then it hurts like a **** for 2-3 days, and then you are mostly fine. I'd be surprised if he is not able to play in two weeks. That said, give him an extra week off. These injuries linger for months, so don't rush him back. I am anti-tank, but in this situation, there is no harm in giving Booker PLENTY of time to recover.

Those of us who are antitank are not necessarily win at all cost either. Agreed. Let him heal. He probably needs a rest anyway. The kid has been playing hard.

 

[Mainstreet]

Here is a tweet from Scott Bordow about 12 hours ago in which he tries to put the injury in context although we are still waiting to find out the extent of Booker's injury.

scott bordow‏Verified account@sbordow


Clairification: a strained muscle can be a tear. Toronto’s DeMarr DeRozan was out 6 weeks in 2014 with what was called tear/severe strain of adductor. Not an injury you can rush back from. Danger of re-aggravation is high

8:51 PM - 5 Dec 2017

 

[elindholm]

Irresponsible clickbait.

 

[StreetTruckinTitan]

With Booker on the shelf it opens up minutes for others to get heavy valuable playing time. Its not so much about wins at this point anymore. Coaching up players and the end result of player development plus getting a top draft pick is paramount.

 

[SactownSunsFan]

With Booker on the shelf it opens up minutes for others to get heavy valuable playing time. Its not so much about wins at this point anymore. Coaching up players and the end result of player development plus getting a top draft pick is paramount.

Agreed. Hate to see him go down, but it'll give us at least a few games to see if other guys can step up. Can TJ be relied upon to be the #1 scorer when needed?

 

[Mainstreet]

With Booker on the shelf it opens up minutes for others to get heavy valuable playing time. Its not so much about wins at this point anymore. Coaching up players and the end result of player development plus getting a top draft pick is paramount.

The Suns are not deep at SG. Troy Daniels will get more minutes there as well as Jackson and James. However, the Suns may have to add depth at guard if Booker is out an extended period of time.

I wonder how close Davon Reed is coming back. This would be the perfect opportunity for him.

Also this injury solidifies a spot on the Suns roster for James.

 

[JCSunsfan]

The Suns are not deep at SG. Troy Daniels will get more minutes there as well as Jackson and James. However, the Suns may have to add depth at guard if Booker is out an extended period of time.

I wonder how close Davon Reed is coming back. This would be the perfect opportunity for him.

Also this injury solidifies a spot on the Suns roster for James.

It really gets JJ minutes. I would think DJJr could be an option. With JJ filling time at SG, we might see Peters on the floor some.

Its a rebuilding year. The pressure is off. We can enjoy the wins, and also enjoy getting a look at younger players even when we don't win.

The only thing that is frustrating is the blow out losses, which are coming now.

 

[SirStefan32]

Adductor tear is incredibly rare. I am sure Scott is trying to get some publicity, but the chances of that injury being a tear are minimal.

That said, it will be interesting to see who steps up while Booker is out. I would be surprised if he is back before 2018.

 

[elindholm]

This team is going to be really, really bad while Booker is out, particularly on the offensive end. Warren is the only other capable scorer. The Suns' pace is fast enough that they'll probably still put up good point totals, but there are going to be long stretches during which the offense breaks down completely.

 

[SirStefan32]

This would be the perfect time to trade for Okafor. See what he can do as the first option.

 

[JCSunsfan]

This would be the perfect time to trade for Okafor. See what he can do as the first option.

They would have to be creative to get Okafor on this roster right now. It would take the following.

1. Okafor would have to agree to sign with Phoenix for the rest of the year.
2. Phoenix would trade a second round pick to Philly.
3. Philly would buy out Okafor.
4. Okafor would have to clear waivers (likely I think).
5. Okafor would sign with Phoenix.

This would be necessary to get around the restrictions on resigning him next summer. I would guess we could trade Philly the second round pick AFTER signing him. In that case, Philly takes the risk instead of Phoenix.

I have a hunch that we have been trying to get him. Booker's "Free Jah" text, and the conversations he was having with him during the Philly game make me think something is up. I would guess that they are waiting until after something gets done with Monroe, Chandler or both.

 

[Mainstreet]

It really gets JJ minutes. I would think DJJr could be an option. With JJ filling time at SG, we might see Peters on the floor some.

Its a rebuilding year. The pressure is off. We can enjoy the wins, and also enjoy getting a look at younger players even when we don't win.

The only thing that is frustrating is the blow out losses, which are coming now.

If the Suns concentrate on developing their youth, I can endure almost anything.

I will look at it as training camp.

It will be interesting to see how the Suns view Derrick Jones JR.

 

[Mainstreet]

They would have to be creative to get Okafor on this roster right now. It would take the following.

1. Okafor would have to agree to sign with Phoenix for the rest of the year.
2. Phoenix would trade a second round pick to Philly.
3. Philly would buy out Okafor.
4. Okafor would have to clear waivers (likely I think).
5. Okafor would sign with Phoenix.

This would be necessary to get around the restrictions on resigning him next summer. I would guess we could trade Philly the second round pick AFTER signing him. In that case, Philly takes the risk instead of Phoenix.

I have a hunch that we have been trying to get him. Booker's "Free Jah" text, and the conversations he was having with him during the Philly game make me think something is up. I would guess that they are waiting until after something gets done with Monroe, Chandler or both.

I think it would have to be a trade to get Okafor unless the Suns get lucky if he is waived.

Also, they would need to clear room for him. I think a buyout and a trade are totally different mechanisms.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I think it would have to be a trade to get Okafor unless the Suns get lucky if he is waived.

Also, they would need to clear room for him. I think a buyout and a trade are totally different mechanisms.

I do not think anyone is going to trade for Jah. There is just no benefit.

 

[SirStefan32]

They would have to be creative to get Okafor on this roster right now. It would take the following.

1. Okafor would have to agree to sign with Phoenix for the rest of the year.
2. Phoenix would trade a second round pick to Philly.
3. Philly would buy out Okafor.
4. Okafor would have to clear waivers (likely I think).
5. Okafor would sign with Phoenix.

This would be necessary to get around the restrictions on resigning him next summer. I would guess we could trade Philly the second round pick AFTER signing him. In that case, Philly takes the risk instead of Phoenix.

I have a hunch that we have been trying to get him. Booker's "Free Jah" text, and the conversations he was having with him during the Philly game make me think something is up. I would guess that they are waiting until after something gets done with Monroe, Chandler or both.

Can you tell me more about these "restrictions?" Why can't we send Philli a second rounder and/or someone in exchange for Okafor?

 

[elindholm]

Can you tell me more about these "restrictions?" Why can't we send Philli a second rounder and/or someone in exchange for Okafor?

It was reported here a couple of weeks ago that a team trading for Okafor this season would be prohibited from re-signing him this summer. But I don't remember the source, and I can't find anything in Larry Coon's FAQ that would support such a claim. I suspect that it's incorrect.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Can you tell me more about these "restrictions?" Why can't we send Philli a second rounder and/or someone in exchange for Okafor?

OK. Here it is again. When a team declines a players 4th year option the following things happen.

1. He becomes an UFA at the end of his third year.
2. The team that declined the option is only allowed to sign that player for the 4th year to whatever the 4th year of his rookie deal would have been, no more. Other teams can offer more. In Jah's case, its roughly $6 million.
3. This restriction follows him if he is traded.

Here is a link explaining it.

https://midlevelexceptional.com/2014/10/30/happens-team-declines-option-rookie-scale-contract/

Let’s use Thomas Robinson as an example. Portland had a team option for the 2015-16 season that would have paid T-Rob about $4.66 million. Declining it means that Robinson will be an Unrestricted Free Agent this summer free to sign with anyone he likes without matching or compensation. While he can sign with any of the other 29 teams for whatever amount he likes from his minimum to his maximum, Robinson cannot come to any agreement with Portland that would have his first-year salary higher than that approximately $4.66 million amount.

In an interesting twist, it appears that Article VII, Section 6(m)(4) of the CBA puts that salary limitation on the team that has the player when his rookie scale contract ends rather than the team that declines the option. This would mean that if Portland traded Robinson during this season, the salary restriction would shift from the Blazers to the team that acquired him. This situation seems awfully unlikely but is fun to ponder nonetheless.

Here is another explanation

https://basketball.realgm.com/analysis/247867/CBA-Encyclopedia-Rookie-Scale-Contracts

What happens when a team declines a rookie scale option?

Since option years are decided so far ahead of time, a player is still under contract for that season if a team declines a rookie scale option. The most important rule comes into play the following summer. While declining the option makes that player an unrestricted free agent that off-season, the team and player could agree to a new contract. However, only the team had said player’s rights at the end of that season has an additional restriction: they cannot sign him for a higher first year salary than the value of the declined option.

This rule is aimed at limiting a form of circumvention but interestingly applies to the team that holds the player’s rights at the end of that season whether or not they were the ones to decline the option. The most famous example of this is Austin Rivers, who could not sign with the Clippers for more than his declined option even though the Pelicans made that decision and he was traded twice during that intervening season. Rivers still re-signed with his father’s team within the specified parameters, then earned a higher salary by opting out of that contract the following offseason once the restriction no longer applied.

And just for good measure, this is the language DIRECTLY from the CBA

Article VII, Section 6, m, 4

(4) Notwithstanding anything to the contrary in this Agreement, if a player is a Veteran Free Agent following the second or third Season of his Rookie Scale Contract (where the first Option Year or second Option Year (as applicable) to extend such Contract was not exercised), then any new Player Contract between the player and the Team that signed him to his Rookie Scale Contract (and/or, if such Contract was subsequently assigned, any such assignee Team) may provide for Regular Salary, Likely Bonuses and Unlikely Bonuses in the first Salary Cap Year of up to the Regular Salary, Likely Bonuses and Unlikely Bonuses, respectively, that the player would have received for such Salary Cap Year had his first or second Option Year (as applicable) been exercised. Annual increases and decreases in Salary and Unlikely Bonuses shall be governed by Section 5(c)(2) above.

 

[SirStefan32]

Oh wow, that is ridiculous!

 

[JCSunsfan]

Oh wow, that is ridiculous!

That's why I was trying to figure out a way to compensate Philly for buying him out. If he gets bought out we can sign him without any restriction.

It mystifies me why Bryan Colangelo thought he could get a first round pick for him after declining his 4th year option. Maybe he thought that no one is going to sign him for more than $6 million anyway.

I read one article that says Philly has gone from asking for two first round picks, to one, and finally to a single second round pick. Not sure when the decline fit into that timeline. Still no takers.

 

[SirStefan32]

I wonder if it would be legal/ ethical to make a deal contingent upon Okafor ending up in Phoenix. "Here is a little something if you waive him and his agent makes it clear to other teams he will only play for Phoenix" type of a thing.