Suns scouting Dragic for a year?

[JCSunsfan]

http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/olybb/columns/story?columnist=sheridan_chris&page=EuroScoutingReport

Friday, September 14, 2007
Updated: September 15, 8:02 PM ET
U.S. scouts talk about future NBA players at EuroBasket

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By Chris Sheridan
ESPN.com

MADRID, Spain -- In a twisted sort of way, Jerry Colangelo was revisiting his worst nightmare Friday night.

When the last game of the night ended, there were those very same players from Greece who had knocked off Team USA a year ago, and there they were again jumping up and down and dancing on the court, celebrating a victory that didn't seem possible -- a 63-62 win over Slovenia in which the Greeks came back from a 16-point deficit in the final 5:45, including a 12-point deficit in the final 2:15.

Taking it all in from the good seats right at center court was Colangelo himself, the director of Team USA who was witnessing his first night of the action here, flanked by his USA Basketball support staff, including his chief scout and two scouting assistants.

Colangelo & Co. got to see a barn burner in the first game, too, as Lithuania survived a number of questionable calls that went against it in the final minutes to pull out a 74-72 victory over Croatia.

Saturday's semifinal matchups will be Greece-Spain and Russia-Lithuania, with two Olympic berths at stake.

Should Spain defeat the Greeks, Sunday's third-place game will determine the second Olympic berth because Spain already has qualified by virtue of being the reigning world champion.


We'll get Colangelo's take on things after this tournament is over, but for now, we'll stick to the guys who have been over here doing the grunt work for USA Basketball, scouting all the games, charting all the plays and spotting all the up-and-comers.

They are chief scout Tony Ronzone of the Detroit Pistons and his assistants, Bill Branch of the Seattle Supersonics and Todd Quinter of the Phoenix Suns.

ESPN.com asked six questions of each of them. Here is what they had to say:

1. What are your overall impressions of EuroBasket '07 thus far?

Ronzone: I think it's a highly competitive tournament. There's a lot more competition here than the Americas tournament or the Africa or Asia tournament. The crowds are great, the teams are evenly matched and lots of the games are going down to the wire, as we're seeing.

Quinter: Well, early on I thought it would be a little more competitive, but it's gotten better as the tournament has rolled on.

Spain has really been dominant, which has been a little surprise to me. Lithuania has been really good. They've competed better than they did last year because they've added [Sarunas] Jasikevicius and [Ramunas] Siskauskas. I think Greece misses [Antonis] Fotsis and the big kid [Sofoklis Schortsianitis], so that makes them a little less competitive, but you never count them out.

So I think it's really been a good tournament. Obviously, the teams are a lot closer in pairings than they were in the Tournament of the Americas, so that's a different scenario, and the fans are so passionate, and that's so much fun to watch.

Branch: Absolutely a great tournament, I'm shocked and amazed at the enthusiasm of each team's crowd. The competition is unbelievable. I'm in awe, really. It's my first time over here, and it's a lot different from the NBA.

2. Who has been the most surprising team?

Ronzone: Russia, definitely. And I've always said they've had great players in that country, and they never got bad. They've always had great talent like in the old Russian days, but I think what's happened now is they've gotten more organization in their federation, and hiring [American coach] David Blatt was a great move. He's got those guys playing unselfish, controlled basketball.

And with guys like [Andrei] Kirilenko and [Alexei] Savrasenko and J.R. Holden and their shooters, he's putting all those ingredients together. And then you've got Viktor Khryapa and Sergei Monia, so you've got a lot of talent on that team with a coach that's putting it together. So I wouldn't be surprised if they won every one of their remaining games, even though I still feel Spain is the best team. But they can do it.

Quinter: For me, it's Greece -- in the wrong way, probably. Because although I know they're always dangerous, just missing those two guys [Fotsis and Schortsianitis], I thought they'd still come through and play a little better than they are. They always seem to win when they have to, but it seems like they're having to work a little harder than I thought they would have to.

The other team I thought was very disappointing was Turkey because I think their talent level was very, very high, and they didn't win a game.

Branch: Croatia and Russia, because they're teams that stood out as teams that weren't expected to do as well as they've done. I like Croatia's ability to fight back against a tougher team [Lithuania], and how they didn't back down.

3. Who is your MVP of the tournament thus far?

Ronzone: [Jose] Calderon, because I think they're going to win it, and his confidence level has even gotten better since the last NBA season. The guy's even looking to shoot 3s now; the guys are looking at him to lead; and if they lose him, they're a different team.

Quinter: Anybody on Spain, but [Jorge] Garbajosa, every time he comes in a game, he's tremendous. He's an emotional leader for them as well as a leader on the court scoring and shooting, and inspirational in that he came come back [from injury] in so short of a time. So he's right up there on my list. Maybe he's not the highest scorer, but I think overall that would have to be the guy I'd pick at this point

Branch: I'm going to say Pau Gasol, and the reason I like Gasol is because he is such a dominant big man. If you take him off their team, I don't want to say they become an average team because they're so deep. But he is just a dominant guy. There are very few dominant guys like him that can score.

4. What player has jumped up on your radar during this tournament?

(Note: All three scouts are employed by NBA teams, and thus are not allowed to comment on draft-eligible players. So none of them would mention by name Slovenian point guard Goran Dragic, who is expected to be in the 2008 draft.)

Ronzone: I can't say his name, but the young kid from Slovenia I love. But I've also always liked Savrasenko from Russia -- I think he's a rotation guy [in the NBA].

The kid Kristof Lavrinovic, he's got some issues. [Ronzone was referring to a rape charge that was lodged against Lavrinovic several years ago, then withdrawn, though not before he and his identical twin brother, Darius, spent more than a year in prison awaiting trial. Darius later married the accuser.] But he's a guy that can be in a rotation in our league -- the guy shoots 3s, he's got a good stroke, a big body, and I think his brother could play in our league also.

And [Slovenian power forward] Matjaz Smodis, I've always loved. People have been talking about him for seven years, but he has not come over. If he was 23 years old, he'd probably be coming over now.

Quinter: [Lithuanian shooting guard] Siskauskas. He had an unbelievable game the other night, though tonight he was more average, and that tempers me a little. I'll have to watch a little more. The [Slovenian] kid is very, very good, and he's young. He's a nice player, as well.

Branch: We can't mention the names of the young guys, but Tony and I have had a three-day, going-back-and-forth lovefest about a particular point guard.

5. Who is the best non-NBA player here?

Ronzone: Probably Smodis. I basically think Smodis is off the chart. I like Savrasenko, [Dimitrios] Diamantidis to me -- everyone talks about [Theo] Papaloukas, but why not Diamantidis? I think he's phenomenal. In the pick-and-roll, you can't stop him, he can post up, shoot the 3, he's unselfish and he's won defensive player of the year three of the past four years. He's got Ginobili action because he's north-south, east-west.

You don't have to be the quickest guy, but because they're so good at going left-right and up and back, they find ways to get to the basket, and they use those big bodies to find their way to the rim on pick-and-rolls.

Quinter: Well, Papaloukas and Diamantidis both, in my mind, should be in our league. I think they are exceptional point guards.

Branch: Papaloukas. He loves coming off the bench, he really gets his team going. I'm surprised how crafty and clever he is with the ball, how he can get in the paint. You can tell he's a wily old veteran.

6. Who do you think will win the tournament?

Ronzone: Spain, because one, they're at home. They've played many, many years together, they've all won, they expect to win at home. With the talent they have, the leadership they have, they've got a good coach, good system, I think they're going to win this tournament.

Quinter: Spain. They have the fans' support here, which helps them. And they seem to be a little ahead of the class.

Branch: Spain, of course. There's the home crowd, but probably most importantly, I don't know a team that's that deep. They've got guys coming off the bench that are just knocking down everything. At any point, any of those guys can take over.



Chris Sheridan covers the NBA for ESPN Insider. To e-mail Chris, click here.

 

[shazaam6]

Branch


Ronzone

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Quinter




Although some will still find a way to make a negative out of that.

 

[Irish]

It had been assumed that Goran had not attracted attention from the Suns until the Treviso Eurocamp in early June. If this article is accurate, they may have been watching Dragic for more than a year.

If they have been watching him for more than a year, it would explain a lot. For a variety of reasons, personal scouting is better than just watching videos. This may have been a much more intense scouting process than we've been led to believe.

It is also interesting that one of the three scouts was from the Pistons. I don't know if Porter talked to him, but it may have added some weight to what the Suns scouts were saying.

I'd love to know the whole inside story.

 

[dodie53]

Suns really loves Goran!

 

[AceP]

It had been assumed that Goran had not attracted attention from the Suns until the Treviso Eurocamp in early June. If this article is accurate, they may have been watching Dragic for more than a year.

If they have been watching him for more than a year, it would explain a lot. For a variety of reasons, personal scouting is better than just watching videos. This may have been a much more intense scouting process than we've been led to believe.

It is also interesting that one of the three scouts was from the Pistons. I don't know if Porter talked to him, but it may have added some weight to what the Suns scouts were saying.

I'd love to know the whole inside story.

Dont u remember, Draft day reports said we traded up from #48 to #45 to grab Dragic b4 the Pistons could, they planned to trade with Seattle to get him at #46.

We paid 500k cash plus an extra second round pick just to move up 3 spots in second round. And we have to pay him 1.5M to just get him signed. Isn't it a hell of a price?

I don't believe Kerr or Sarvar is stupid or insane. This article does prove the point, that there must be something we don't know behind this decision.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Dont u remember, Draft day reports said we traded up from #48 to #45 to grab Dragic b4 the Pistons could, they planned to trade with Seattle to get him at #46.

We paid 500k cash plus an extra second round pick just to move up 3 spots in second round. And we have to pay him 1.5M to just get him signed. Isn't it a hell of a price?

I don't believe Kerr or Sarvar is stupid or insane. This article does prove the point, that there must be something we don't know behind this decision.

The other scout was from the Sonics. Maybe they were afraid the Sonics were going to take him for themselves.

They know alot more about this kid than we originally thought. Both JC and Quinter were there. While JC is not running the show, his opinion on talent is highly valued.

When they brought JC down to watch Amare work out for the Suns, he watched for about 5 minutes and then got up and started walking to the door. Bryan and others were puzzled, thinking he didn't like what he saw. They asked him if he didn't want to stay and watch more. Jerry said, "I don't have to see any more. Do whatever it takes to get him."

 

[Irish]

The other scout was from the Sonics. Maybe they were afraid the Sonics were going to take him for themselves.

It could explain their willingness to pay $500K to move up just four slots. On the surface it seemed odd because there were a bunch of nice looking players available such as Plaisted, Walker, Hairston, Hendrix, and Von Hardin.

They know alot more about this kid than we originally thought. Both JC and Quinter were there. While JC is not running the show, his opinion on talent is highly valued.

When they brought JC down to watch Amare work out for the Suns, he watched for about 5 minutes and then got up and started walking to the door. Bryan and others were puzzled, thinking he didn't like what he saw. They asked him if he didn't want to stay and watch more. Jerry said, "I don't have to see any more. Do whatever it takes to get him."

There was a fair amount of luck involved in getting Amare. The bigs taken the year before had been somewhat disappointing and a lot of teams were scared off by Amare's family background. But most of all, there were some amazingly stupid picks taken ahead of him.

 

[hsandhu]

Branch


Ronzone

You must be registered for see images

Quinter




Although some will still find a way to make a negative out of that.

They're all clearly morons they don't have access to john hollinger's PER!

 

[Gaddabout]

Told to me second-hand, but the Suns believe Dragic will benefit being around better players. The idea is he plays the game a step faster than some of his European counterparts, and after some adjustment, his game will improve by playing with players who already move at his speed.

This is why sometimes you will see decent NBA players go overseas and struggle at first. The game has far more movement, but the actual game speed just isn't on the level of the NBA.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

despite what most of you think, i am optimistic about this kid (i think i'd have to shoot myself if i wasn't). and though i'm still a bit skeptical and i think most of you may be reading a lot into three one-line comments from a year ago, this does let me feel a little better about his skills in the eyes of other pro personnel men.

 

[SunsTzu]

this does let me feel a little better about his skills in the eyes of other pro personnel men.

Yeah this is the most positive thing I've seen regarding Dragic. Ronzone is a pretty highly thought of scout from what little I've read/heard(though I wonder how many of his fingerprints are on the Darko selection). I don't really trust the Suns scouting but if that Sonics scout was hired after Sam Presti took over as GM then that's real promising since Presti made his bones scouting Europe for the Spurs.

All in all I really, really want Dragic to do well, I just have huge doubts about him.

 

[Irish]

Told to me second-hand, but the Suns believe Dragic will benefit being around better players. The idea is he plays the game a step faster than some of his European counterparts, and after some adjustment, his game will improve by playing with players who already move at his speed.

This is why sometimes you will see decent NBA players go overseas and struggle at first. The game has far more movement, but the actual game speed just isn't on the level of the NBA.

On the interview with Gambo and Ash, it was mentioned that Dragic's father was a professional soccer player and that Dragic played a lot soccer before going full time to basketball.

I was intrigued by that in that a number of people have credited Nash with his soccer background for his great peripheral vision. (Didn't help Barbosa, so I'm not paying a huge amount on this). But the videos seem to suggest Dragic has good vision of the other players when on the break.

This is all speculation, but this may be a situation comparable to a great quarterback on a team with very poor wide receivers. We've certainly seen our share of NBA players who muff passes because they weren't ready. I'd like to know what the scouts saw or thought they saw.

What can we expect. DX did a profile in Feb that made this comment:

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Goran-Dragic-1025/

Dragic is more of a drive-and-dish point guard who likes the transition game. He doesn’t show great court vision, but relies on his remarkable quickness and decent ball-handling skills to beat his opponents off the dribble in order to unbalance the defense and feed the open man, or to look for his own layup.

The feed the open man is the part of the game Leandro could never seem to get. It is not clear what the author means when he says he doesn't have great court vision but still sees the open man.

From the Treviso camp

As a point guard, Dragic did a better job than we anticipated based on the up and down season he had. He showed a lot more creativity than we’ve given him credit for in the past, making good reads and finding cutters slashing to the rim or shooters spotting up on the wing after slashing to the basket himself.

DX was not entirely enthusiast to say the least, but he sounds like a he has more PG skills than Barbosa and every review mentions his defense. This is from Treviso

Dragic played spectacular defense on whoever he was guarding, mainly Rudy Mbemba, who’s terrific speed did not faze him in the least bit. He got right into his man’s grill on every possession of the game, fighting through screens admirably, showing excellent length and lateral quickness, and getting his hands on countless number of balls. It got to the point that players were just afraid to put the ball on the floor when Dragic was in the vicinity, as more often than not he would find a way to poke it away and bust up plays. He got his team into transition time after time, and made very good decisions once there, finishing strong and intelligently around the basket and getting to the line seven times.

Hit three point shot is likely to be an issue and I would not expect a great floor general.

Here is nbadraft.net

http://www.nbadraft.net/admincp/profiles/gorandragic.html

Outlook: Goran Dragic has loads of potential…He is a tall point guard who can rebound and push the ball in transition like a Jason Kidd. Has the craftiness around the basket of a Manu Ginobili (not as athletic) and the aggressive mentality to attack the rim on every possession like a Tony Parker. He may not be as quick as Parker, but he compensates for that with his above average size, speed and overall aggressive mentality … Solid defensively ala Rajon Rondo but with much better size and overall feel for the game … I really think with some solid coaching he could be a real find for a team. Especially a team that runs Pick and Roll frequently and likes to get out in transition where Dragic thrives … He plays with a little bit of a chip on his shoulder … I can see him making it very difficult for smaller PGs getting into their offensive sets … Much better shooter spotting up than off the dribble at this point, however needs to be put in serious work to establish a consistent outside shot … Tony Parker couldn't really shoot when he came into the league and J-Kidd still can't, so speed, size and determination come into play here. He definitely shows that he is determined and willing to make the sacrifices necessary to improve his game and win at all costs … His professional experience has given him the opportunity to become a solid floor general for his club and this knowledge will be a big plus for him moving forward …

I expect he will struggle when he first starts playing; but I think he will be a lot more effective than Leandro and get better with experience. It is unfair for him to be given all this extra pressure of being the "next Steve Nash"; but I think he'll be more effective with the Suns than he would anywhere else.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Yeah this is the most positive thing I've seen regarding Dragic. Ronzone is a pretty highly thought of scout from what little I've read/heard(though I wonder how many of his fingerprints are on the Darko selection). I don't really trust the Suns scouting but if that Sonics scout was hired after Sam Presti took over as GM then that's real promising since Presti made his bones scouting Europe for the Spurs.

All in all I really, really want Dragic to do well, I just have huge doubts about him.

I am not sure why you would distrust the Suns scouting staff. They have been excellent for years. We just haven't drafted much, or early.

 

[Irish]

I am not sure why you would distrust the Suns scouting staff. They have been excellent for years. We just haven't drafted much, or early.

The team had a bad run: Big Jake, Casey, and Zarko were all flops. Yes Zarko was injured, but he lacked the mental toughness to recover. They passed on so many good players to get Casey, it mades you wonder.

On the other hand, they traded away some really good players...

 

[LavaLamp2]

Shifting topics slightly, isn't Goran Dragic just a kickass name? It just reminds me of the moniker "Vlad the Impaler" LOL.