Suns think they still have a shot

[Irish]

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/articles/2008/10/27/20081027spt-sunspremain.html

Suns think they still have a shot

155 commentsby Paul Coro - Oct. 27, 2008 12:56 PM
The Arizona Republic

There have been more Suns wins in the past four seasons than in any previous four-year run. But the window is closed?
San Antonio is the only other team to win at least 54 games in each of those years. But the run is done?

The Suns have made changes to improve defense, depth and desire. But the epitaph is written?
Here lies Seven Seconds or Less. Born 2004. Deceased 2008.
Pundits are burying championship hopes. The Suns went from elite to back seat, from the pace of a track meet to an image of concrete.
Alive and kicking, the Suns believe reports of their death have been greatly exaggerated.

"We want to be champions," Suns forward Amaré Stoudemire said. "Whatever it takes to do it, we're going to strive for it.

"We're going to show the world we're improved defensively. I think our staff and team is the best in the land. It's just a matter of execution."
Others think the Suns' chances were executed by Spurs' excellence, untimely playoff injuries and suspensions and an inability for a run-and-gun style to work in the playoffs.

Exit Mike D'Antoni, enter Terry Porter. Committed to a core of Stoudemire, Steve Nash, Shaquille O'Neal, the Suns targeted Porter as coach to recast the team identity.

Shaq shift


The aim was to avoid a 180-degree change, but it felt like one at times for the veterans. Porter has emphasized defense to the point of slide drills. He emphasized half-court offense to the point when Nash joked he felt like asking, "Are we allowed to do this, Dad?" when trying to push the tempo in the preseason.

"It didn't change because I got here," Porter said. "That changed when Shaq got here."

With O'Neal, the Suns won 15 of 20 games to close last season better than any team but Boston. The Suns finished two games from first place in the West, a conference so deep that 55-27 meant a sixth seed for Phoenix.

"When you win and it doesn't pay off, sometimes it's more frustrating," said Oklahoma City coach P.J. Carlesimo, a former Spurs assistant. "San Antonio set the bar so high and this league is all about wining. The hardest decisions are when you're that close. You say, 'It's not about getting beat in the conference finals.' "

Conference finals losses are the good ol' days. The Suns have exited a round earlier in each of the past two postseasons.

"You look at the ultracompetitive West and are they better than the Lakers, New Orleans, Houston, Utah, San Antonio, even Dallas?" TNT analyst Reggie Miller said. "Sometimes, I find myself scratching my head."
His TNT partner, Marv Albert, said, "If they go up against the right teams where they can take advantage with a post-up game and Shaq in there when things slow down in the playoffs, then it works. If not, I think even getting to the playoffs will be a struggle for Phoenix."

Defense, attitude


Porter implores the Suns to still run but only after defensive stops. A team - and a Golden State import, Matt Barnes, - conditioned to firing up shots heard "bad shot" repeatedly for the first time in years during camp.
Porter used October to emphasize weaknesses. He addressed the half-court game by installing traditional sets with more post-ups and fewer pick-and-rolls for Nash. Porter revamped the defense to deny the middle.
"You've got to want to play defense," O'Neal said. "These guys have been winners for a long time. Now, we've got to bring a defensive attitude with it. That will make us a dangerous team in the West."

The Suns had not put in any part of the previous offense, as was the original idea. But as the team takes to Porter's wishes, he also hears theirs and adjusts.

"Once we're accustomed to the new stuff, we can get back to some of the old stuff and have a nice balance," Nash said.

The regular season had become drudgery for the Suns but it is a proving ground again. They have much to figure out to stay afloat in the West.
"I have a little more respect for winning and they've been winning without defense," Denver coach George Karl said. "The face-lift in philosophy? I'd never question Steve Nash, Shaquille O'Neal, Amaré Stoudemire. They play slow, fast, in the dark, whatever you want and they'll be good.

"I still don't think they're going to limit Steve Nash's effectiveness. They'll find a way to incorporate him into their personality. It's going to be strange to not have the ball in his hands as much. He's been dominant. I've learned a lot from them."

The Suns remain an attraction but will play more like other teams while still being doubted defensively. Nobody predicts the Suns to be one of the West's top four teams.

The window is closing. The Suns just don't believe it to be locked.
"We should be right where we want to be," O'Neal said.

 

[dodie53]

i like how the suns think

 

[mojorizen7]

They do. It's riding on the health of the 35+ish vets & the development of two rooks.

 

[Irish]

They do. It's riding on the health of the 35+ish vets & the development of two rooks.

And....

A lot of things have to go right for them to have a shot, but it's not a wild long shot. Obviously if Shaq has a seaon ending injury, it will be hard but they are going to give Lopez a lot of on the job training and cut Shaq's minutes and hope.

The same holds with Nash and Dragic. They will have Hill and Diaw to help him run the offense, but Dragic needs to come through.

 

[Mainstreet]

I get the drift of the article. The quote from Steve Nash sums it up very concisely.

"Once we're accustomed to the new stuff, we can get back to some of the old stuff and have a nice balance," Nash said.

However the sentence below it gave me pause.

The regular season had become drudgery for the Suns but it is a proving ground again. They have much to figure out to stay afloat in the West.

Had the Suns taken winning in the regular season for granted? I tend to think so. Now the regular season will become a proving ground and yet they must win while doing it. So much depends how the Suns get out of the gate through November. The Suns obviously have the talent to make the playoffs so I'm hoping it comes together quickly. If not, they could be left in the dust. If the Suns do not make the playoffs but play better defense will this be considered progress?

 

[JCSunsfan]

They do. It's riding on the health of the 35+ish vets & the development of two rooks.

Disagree. The success of this season rests on Amare's back. Everyone else is supporting cast.

 

[Mainstreet]

Disagree. The success of this season rests on Amare's back. Everyone else is supporting cast.

IMO, if Steve Nash cannot get the kinks out of the offense then it really doesn't matter.

 

[LakeShowMan]

"I have a little more respect for winning and they've been winning without defense," Denver coach George Karl

Pot, meet kettle?

 

[Cheesebeef]

And....

A lot of things have to go right for them to have a shot, but it's not a wild long shot.

yeah it is. When everyone in the world thinks we're a 6 seed at best, that's a wild long shot. Can it happen? Sure. The Lakers coming into last season would have been seen as a wild long shot, but it still doesn't mean that a hell of a lot would have to break our way for it to happen.

 

[Irish]

Had the Suns taken winning in the regular season for granted? I tend to think so. Now the regular season will become a proving ground and yet they must win while doing it.

I think that last season the team lost faith in the D'Antoni magic. They got to a point where it must have felt like his plan was just more of the same but "harder and faster"

They have 82 games to develop a playoff team capable of winning it all. The transition began with the Shaq trade, but they had a lot more stuff to work on. By the time Marion was traded, they didn't have hope of things getting better without a change.

I know that the guys who are rooting against the Suns will disagree, but IMHO this is a team that has some serious potential.

 

[nowagimp]

yeah it is. When everyone in the world thinks we're a 6 seed at best, that's a wild long shot. Can it happen? Sure. The Lakers coming into last season would have been seen as a wild long shot, but it still doesn't mean that a hell of a lot would have to break our way for it to happen.

Yup, its a wild long shot. LOL, if the lakers can add an all star for 2 cigars and a pack of gum, the suns can do it. Now, the question is who is going to call chris wallace and see what he has to give away? I wonder if Kerr is as smart and savy as mitch kupchak?

 

[sunsfn]

The suns season will start slow with them losing more than winning, they will improve as the season goes on, but they have no shot to win it all!

 

[nowagimp]

I think that last season the team lost faith in the D'Antoni magic. They got to a point where it must have felt like his plan was just more of the same but "harder and faster"

They have 82 games to develop a playoff team capable of winning it all. The transition began with the Shaq trade, but they had a lot more stuff to work on. By the time Marion was traded, they didn't have hope of things getting better without a change.

I know that the guys who are rooting against the Suns will disagree, but IMHO this is a team that has some serious potential.

Well those that have faith in the "porter magic", can now begin praying for a championship. After all, the suns are the most talented team in the west, and all they needed was a coaching change to a more defensive oriented approach.

 

[Irish]

Well those that have faith in the "porter magic", can now begin praying for a championship. After all, the suns are the most talented team in the west, and all they needed was a coaching change to a more defensive oriented approach.

They might be better in the regular season if D'Antoni stayed. They finished 15 of 20 last season and Barnes is a perfect D'Antoni type of guy. We won't really know if the trade-offs in style will work until the playoffs.

 

[Skkorpion]

Every new season comes with renewed hopes and a 0-0 record. Watching the team develop should be interesting. The one thing about the Suns you can always count on is that we never stand pat.

Perhaps because Jerry Colangelo was so aggressive and bold, this organization never shies away from big moves. That's been both good and bad but never boring.

Bring on the season.

 

[nowagimp]

They might be better in the regular season if D'Antoni stayed. They finished 15 of 20 last season and Barnes is a perfect D'Antoni type of guy. We won't really know if the trade-offs in style will work until the playoffs.

I would comment, but if its not a soundbite(2mins), I get kicked out(revoked login). Im done here, this is the dumbest website software Ive ever used.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I think that last season the team lost faith in the D'Antoni magic. They got to a point where it must have felt like his plan was just more of the same but "harder and faster"

My take is that toward the end of last season Steve Kerr took charge of the team. He saw that DAntoni had to change some things in order to be successful in the playoffs (depth, defense).

DAntoni didn't like the GM meddling in his coaching and left.

So now we have Porter. And who knows where that will take us. The players have said the right things so far.

What I do know is that this is the most complete team, roster/position-wise that the Suns have had since 92-3.

The team has size, it has speed, it has youth, it has veteran maturity. It has a superstar and two more players that can play at that level for periods of time.

But the big questions are Shaq and coaching. Like Barkley, Shaq has a tendency to break your heart. Porter has been a good coach in a short stint in the past but we have yet to see if he can do it on this level.

Expectations seem low, so a positive surprise is likely.

 

[Mainstreet]

They might be better in the regular season if D'Antoni stayed. They finished 15 of 20 last season and Barnes is a perfect D'Antoni type of guy. We won't really know if the trade-offs in style will work until the playoffs.

Have you ever considered the Suns might not make the playoffs? Yes, the Suns have the talent to make the tail end of the playoffs but a new coach and a new system is in play. So it should not be considered a given the Suns make the playoffs. Porter was brought to the Suns to win a Championship or at least make it to the Finals. Anything less, the Suns should have kept D'Antoni.

 

[nashman]

Of course they have a chance no one KNOWS what is going to happen in a long season. Injuries can kill some of the supposed best teams while some unknowns like the Suns could gel quickly and become very good. Its all a toss up right now people are just guessing. I know I saw a preseason poll with the Rockets at 5, Sixers at 9 and the Suns at 11, definately a lot of guessing going on! Boston and LA are considered favorites but that means nothing one Kobe finger away from missing the playoffs in the West, one thing is for sure the West is gonna be crazy and fun to watch!

 

[Cheesebeef]

Have you ever considered the Suns might not make the playoffs? Yes, the Suns have the talent to make the tail end of the playoffs but a new coach and a new system is in play. So it should not be considered a given the Suns make the playoffs. Porter was brought to the Suns to win a Championship or at least make it to the Finals. Anything less, the Suns should have kept D'Antoni.

anything less and they should have kept DA? There were more than one option between DA and Porter. They could have spent money on a coach who actually had some success before like Rick Carlysle or Larry Brown or they could have blown up the entire thing and truth be told, IMO, those were the only two options they should have gone for. They got Porter because he was cheap and they wanted to continue to hold on to the notion of playing for a title on a budget. Carlysle's a guy who's actually shown the ability to take multiple teams to the Conference Finals based on D and he's shown the ability to take a team completely beset by injury/suspensions and have them play above their ability. He also showed at times that his teams could run. THAT'S who they should have gone after if they wanted to go for a two year run. Not some guy who never showed all that much with the Bucks and then was an assistant coach on a team under a piss-poor HC who's teams routinely failed to live up to their expectations.

and if they couldn't get a closer, they should have blown the whole thing up. All bringing back DA would have done would have shown that failure is something that the franchise is okay with. He and his system were done here. Unfortunately, I think instead of really going for it with a great coach or looking reality in the face and realizing it was probably time to blow it up, we did something right down the middle and our play and record will probably match that action, falling somewhere in the middle of the league.

 

[msdundee]

Porter was brought to the Suns to win a Championship or at least make it to the Finals.

Shaq was brought to the Suns to win a Championship or at least make it to the Finals. Are we supposed to forget all the hype and hoopla we've been force-fed since last February? It wouldn't be fair to hang that millstone around Porter's neck or any other coach's neck, for that matter, but no doubt that will be the thinking.

His comment in the AZ Republic article:

"The aim was to avoid a 180-degree change, but it felt like one at times for the veterans. Porter has emphasized defense to the point of slide drills. He emphasized half-court offense to the point when Nash joked he felt like asking, "Are we allowed to do this, Dad?" when trying to push the tempo in the preseason.......

"It didn't change because I got here," Porter said. "That changed when Shaq got here."

And he's right.

 

[Mainstreet]

Shaq was brought to the Suns to win a Championship or at least make it to the Finals. Are we supposed to forget all the hype and hoopla we've been force-fed since last February? It wouldn't be fair to hang that millstone around Porter's neck or any other coach's neck, for that matter, but no doubt that will be the thinking.

His comment in the AZ Republic article:

"The aim was to avoid a 180-degree change, but it felt like one at times for the veterans. Porter has emphasized defense to the point of slide drills. He emphasized half-court offense to the point when Nash joked he felt like asking, "Are we allowed to do this, Dad?" when trying to push the tempo in the preseason.......

"It didn't change because I got here," Porter said. "That changed when Shaq got here."

And he's right.

I don't think most fans thought Shaq was brought here to win a Championship although they certainly hoped. Certainly I wasn't a believer and actually thought acquiring Shaq might be a desperation move like when the Mavericks acquired Kidd. IMO, Shaq was brought here to strengthen the Suns inside defense and provide more inside scoring. He would help the Suns fill this gaping hole in the middle.

In regard to Porter, I'm pulling for him because he was brought into a difficult situation with high expectations. IMO, he was brought to the Suns to provide a defensive mind set and also use an offensive scheme that would provide more opportunities to feed Shaq and Amare the ball more on the inside. This would also lessen the burden on Nash. Since D'Antoni supposedly could not blend offense and defense together, that leaves Porter to get the Suns a title. That is what he was brought here to accomplish. Anything less, the Suns should have kept D'Antoni. IMO, expecting Shaq to carry the team to a Championship is wishful thinking unless you think Shaq has reversed time.

If you don't believe, listen to the many fans who thought D'Antoni prevented the Suns from winning a Championship over the past four seasons.

 

[msdundee]

I don't think most fans thought Shaq was brought here to win a Championship although they certainly hoped. Certainly I wasn't a believer and actually thought acquiring Shaq might be a desperation move like when the Mavericks acquired Kidd. IMO, Shaq was brought here to strengthen the Suns inside defense and provide more inside scoring. He would help the Suns fill this gaping hole in the middle.

In regard to Porter, I'm pulling for him because he was brought into a difficult situation with high expectations. IMO, he was brought to the Suns to provide a defensive mind set and also use an offensive scheme that would provide more opportunities to feed Shaq and Amare the ball more on the inside. This would also lessen the burden on Nash. Since D'Antoni supposedly could not blend offense and defense together, that leaves Porter to get the Suns a title. That is what he was brought here to accomplish. Anything less, the Suns should have kept D'Antoni. IMO, expecting Shaq to carry the team to a Championship is wishful thinking unless you think Shaq has reversed time.

If you don't believe, listen to the many fans who thought D'Antoni prevented the Suns from winning a Championship over the past four seasons.

I never for one minute believed Shaq could carry the Suns to a title, and still don't. It's more likely he'll be the anchor that sinks the ship, and I hated that trade. We've all listened (ad nauseum) to the fans that blamed anything and everything on D'Antoni and I don't agree with them either. I would have liked to see them give him one more year, preferably without the anchor.

Given the endless ranting on this board to the tune of Nothing But a Title Will Do and Who Cares If a Team is Exciting and Fun to Watch, it will be interesting to see how this season goes because everyone should be happy now. Marion's gone, D'Antoni's gone, Shaq's here, and the bench is deeper. If the Suns are not NBA champs in 2009 there's just no explaining it.

You're absolutely right--anything less than a championship should be considered unsatisfactory, another failure. But all I'm saying is, in that scenario Porter shouldn't take all the blame. I'd start a little higher up.

 

[mojorizen7]

anything less and they should have kept DA? There were more than one option between DA and Porter. They could have spent money on a coach who actually had some success before like Rick Carlysle or Larry Brown or they could have blown up the entire thing and truth be told, IMO, those were the only two options they should have gone for. They got Porter because he was cheap and they wanted to continue to hold on to the notion of playing for a title on a budget. Carlysle's a guy who's actually shown the ability to take multiple teams to the Conference Finals based on D and he's shown the ability to take a team completely beset by injury/suspensions and have them play above their ability. He also showed at times that his teams could run. THAT'S who they should have gone after if they wanted to go for a two year run. Not some guy who never showed all that much with the Bucks and then was an assistant coach on a team under a piss-poor HC who's teams routinely failed to live up to their expectations.

and if they couldn't get a closer, they should have blown the whole thing up. All bringing back DA would have done would have shown that failure is something that the franchise is okay with. He and his system were done here. Unfortunately, I think instead of really going for it with a great coach or looking reality in the face and realizing it was probably time to blow it up, we did something right down the middle and our play and record will probably match that action, falling somewhere in the middle of the league.

I agree with this^

 

[mojorizen7]

I never for one minute believed Shaq could carry the Suns to a title, and still don't. It's more likely he'll be the anchor that sinks the ship, and I hated that trade. We've all listened (ad nauseum) to the fans that blamed anything and everything on D'Antoni and I don't agree with them either. I would have liked to see them give him one more year, preferably without the anchor.

Given the endless ranting on this board to the tune of Nothing But a Title Will Do and Who Cares If a Team is Exciting and Fun to Watch, it will be interesting to see how this season goes because everyone should be happy now. Marion's gone, D'Antoni's gone, Shaq's here, and the bench is deeper. If the Suns are not NBA champs in 2009 there's just no explaining it.

You're absolutely right--anything less than a championship should be considered unsatisfactory, another failure. But all I'm saying is, in that scenario Porter shouldn't take all the blame. I'd start a little higher up.

I think its safe to assume you're talking about fans such as myself here so i'll respond.
Ad nauseum is a relative term and both sides have been driven into the ground......
Do you not realize that the window of opportunity may have closed despite the departure of Marion, despite the arrival of Shaq,despite the departure of D'Antoni, and despite the arrival of Porter?
What i'm saying is this could be a case of too little too late.
I'm guessing your first reaction to that would be "ahhh the excuses if the SUNS turn out to be ***** this year under Porter the savior"....or something like that.
I'm talking about age. Even if you removed Shaq from the equation this teams core is still old and potentially fragile if you count Stoudemire's knees. These are facts that have absolutely nothing to do with D'Antoni and are by no means his fault(pinch me LOL).....except that he had 4 years with arguably the most talented group of (8)guys in the league.....plus a stint as GM,enough talent to warrant being picked to win the championship by many of the so-called-experts every year. He failed to even sniff a title.
So now, in comes Porter with essentially the same team in NASH,BELL,BARBOSA,HILL,DIAW & STOUDEMIRE(it's not like Kerr blew it all up) except these All-stars/Mvp's are o l d e r & IMO a little mentally shell shocked from the high expectations & subsequent playoff disappointments. Anyway, my point is....... sorry my friend but you CANNOT put those same expectations on this group just because the SUNS organization decided to change coaches & philosophy. It's just not that simple as long as you view this team objectively.
Had D'antoni stayed the expectations would have dropped as well due to the age,wear & tear etc...IMO. They also would've dropped some due to the fact that after running the same unorthodox style for 4 yrs under the same coach w/the same guys it ultimately proved unsuccessful.
Porter gets 4 yrs....at least. There's a lot more mileage on this Ferrari then the one D'antoni ran with for the last 3 yrs.

I expect 45 wins, a 6th seed and a 2nd round exit.
Are you going to tell me that if DA had stayed that you'd expect much more than that? Not me....and this way our younger players might just actually learn the basic concept of defense and discipline going forward.
Or....we might just get lucky,stay healthy and get hot at the right time & "sniff' the Finals.