Suns trade ideas for the fall of 2020

[Raindog]

Such a trade is suspect at best for someone at a position of real need in this draft pool. But for Halliburton who isn't even demonstrably better than the other six PGs projected to go in the top 15? Hell and no...

 

[Hoop Head]

There is not a single point guard in this draft who will be ready to start in the NBA by then, even at the very top of the draft. They will need Rubio as their starter, or they will need to pay a veteran replacement.

Is it the same voice in your head telling you that there isn't a single PG who will be ready to start in their sophomore year that also told you Ja Morant would be a gigantic bust and out of the league before his rookie contract finished?

 

[1Sun]

Is it the same voice in your head telling you that there isn't a single PG who will be ready to start in their sophomore year that also told you Ja Morant would be a gigantic bust and out of the league before his rookie contract finished?

Okay, smarty. Which point guard in this draft do you think will be a legitimate NBA starter in a year?

 

[AzStevenCal]

Okay, smarty. Which point guard in this draft do you think will be a legitimate NBA starter in a year?

I'll take that question. I have no idea, but I haven't put in the work. And I'd be very surprised if there weren't at least a couple of starting point guards from this class.

 

[Mainstreet]

There is not a single point guard in this draft who will be ready to start in the NBA by then, even at the very top of the draft. They will need Rubio as their starter, or they will need to pay a veteran replacement.

I didn't say the Suns had to trade Rubio. I'm saying they could if they drafted the right point guard or combo guard.

Doncic, Young, Sexton and Shai all started or were capable of starting out of the 2018 draft.

 

[Mainstreet]

Okay, smarty. Which point guard in this draft do you think will be a legitimate NBA starter in a year?

I think the following may be capable of starting in the second year: LaMello Ball, Killian Hayes, Tyrese Haliburton and Kira Lewis.

Do I know which ones. No and you don't either.

 

[1Sun]

I didn't say the Suns had to trade Rubio. I'm saying they could if they drafted the right point guard or combo guard.

Doncic, Young, Sexton and Shai all started or were capable of starting out of the 2018 draft.

And all were far superior to anyone this draft has to offer.

 

[Mainstreet]

And all were far superior to anyone this draft has to offer.

Says someone who couldn't get Ja Morant right.

 

[1Sun]

Says someone who couldn't get Ja Morant right.

While I was wrong on Ja Morant, there were analysts who projected him to be this good. Not a single point guard in this draft is projected by analysts to be in the same universe as Morant, let alone ready to start in the NBA.

Do you honestly think LaMelo Ball will be a legitimate NBA starting point guard within a year? Because he is the consensus #1 rated point guard in this draft by a mile, even though he shot a horrific 37% from the field and couldn't even get his team to the playoffs in a weak NBL in Australia.

And if you're thinking Hayes (the consensus #2 point guard in this draft), while he might have some long term potential, he is by definition a project, having put up so-so numbers for a team that just went 1-9 in EuroCup play in his first year at the top EuroLeague level.

 

[BC867]

There is not a single point guard in this draft who will be ready to start in the NBA by then, even at the very top of the draft. They will need Rubio as their starter, or they will need to pay a veteran replacement.

Or be tempted to, once again, use Devin as our best facilitator and best scorer.
And be doubled and tripled every time he touches the ball.

 

[AzStevenCal]

While I was wrong on Ja Morant, there were analysts who projected him to be this good. Not a single point guard in this draft is projected by analysts to be in the same universe as Morant, let alone ready to start in the NBA.

Do you honestly think LaMelo Ball will be a legitimate NBA starting point guard within a year? Because he is the consensus #1 rated point guard in this draft by a mile, even though he shot a horrific 37% from the field and couldn't even get his team to the playoffs in a weak NBL in Australia.

And if you're thinking Hayes (the consensus #2 point guard in this draft), while he might have some long term potential, he is by definition a project, having put up so-so numbers for a team that just went 1-9 in EuroCup play in his first year at the top EuroLeague level.

You weren't just "wrong" on Morant, you were adamant about him being horrible. We all have opinions and we all get things wrong but you went the extra mile on this one.

 

[Hoop Head]

While I was wrong on Ja Morant, there were analysts who projected him to be this good. Not a single point guard in this draft is projected by analysts to be in the same universe as Morant, let alone ready to start in the NBA.

Do you honestly think LaMelo Ball will be a legitimate NBA starting point guard within a year? Because he is the consensus #1 rated point guard in this draft by a mile, even though he shot a horrific 37% from the field and couldn't even get his team to the playoffs in a weak NBL in Australia.

And if you're thinking Hayes (the consensus #2 point guard in this draft), while he might have some long term potential, he is by definition a project, having put up so-so numbers for a team that just went 1-9 in EuroCup play in his first year at the top EuroLeague level.

There are analysts who project stardom for LaMelo and also those who think Halliburton and Hayes are top PG prospects who will be starters in the league sooner than later. No one projected Brogdon to be a starter in his first year as a 2nd round pick and he won Rookie of the Year as the Bucks starting PG. Analysts are like fans, they aren't always right. Trying to pass the buck though and claiming analysts predicted Ja to be good doesn't absolve you from how you swore up and down he'd be a huge bust all year whenever he was mentioned. You seemed much more certain he'd be fizzle out than your latest claim that there isn't a PG in this draft who can start within 2 years based on how you just started spouting that nonsense vs how you talked about Ja as a bust for a whole year.

Why it matters that you were so wrong about Ja though is your ability to predict the future of PG prospects is really bad based on your history. You're 0-1 right now, not having hyped any other PG's before last year's draft or bashing them. So why should anyone take you seriously?

It also seems like you want to claim all of the PG's in this draft are bad because most recent mocks say the Suns will select one of them, which you were fine with until the analysts decided to lean that direction. You were fine with taking Hayes or Halliburton a week or two back but now that it might happen, you need to get your negative spin down and you'll go with "They aren't ready to start". It's kind of funny how you always have to be against whatever route the Suns, and most Suns fans, seem to be going.

 

[Hoop Head]

Or be tempted to, once again, use Devin as our best facilitator and best scorer.
And be doubled and tripled every time he touches the ball.

Did you watch games last season, he was doubled regularly and tripled occasionally. I'm not sure if a site tracks double teams or not but I would imagine he was doubled more than any point in his career because he isn't just a good prospect anymore but a known star. Being a star is what gets him doubled, not the position he plays. Despite those doubles and triples, he had the best assist/turnover ratio since the Suns first experimented with him as a PG.

The way you talk about him used as a PG would lead someone to believe he's been the Suns starting PG for years but he's never played more than 15% of his time at PG since entering the league. This last season he spent more time at SF than PG, which I imagine you would disagree with.

Here are the stats from Basketball Reference though...

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[1Sun]

There are analysts who project stardom for LaMelo and also those who think Halliburton and Hayes are top PG prospects who will be starters in the league sooner than later. No one projected Brogdon to be a starter in his first year as a 2nd round pick and he won Rookie of the Year as the Bucks starting PG. Analysts are like fans, they aren't always right. Trying to pass the buck though and claiming analysts predicted Ja to be good doesn't absolve you from how you swore up and down he'd be a huge bust all year whenever he was mentioned. You seemed much more certain he'd be fizzle out than your latest claim that there isn't a PG in this draft who can start within 2 years based on how you just started spouting that nonsense vs how you talked about Ja as a bust for a whole year.

Why it matters that you were so wrong about Ja though is your ability to predict the future of PG prospects is really bad based on your history. You're 0-1 right now, not having hyped any other PG's before last year's draft or bashing them. So why should anyone take you seriously?

It also seems like you want to claim all of the PG's in this draft are bad because most recent mocks say the Suns will select one of them, which you were fine with until the analysts decided to lean that direction. You were fine with taking Hayes or Halliburton a week or two back but now that it might happen, you need to get your negative spin down and you'll go with "They aren't ready to start". It's kind of funny how you always have to be against whatever route the Suns, and most Suns fans, seem to be going.

I am still fine taking Hayes or Haliburton...at 10, not at 2, and not expecting either to start in the near future. The hole I would expect either to fill would be a scoring combo guard off the bench to back up Booker, with the hope that one could eventually develop into Rubio's replacement several years down the road. That is far different than expecting either to replace Rubio in the starting line-up in one year without our team taking a major step backward.

 

[Mainstreet]

I am still fine taking Hayes or Haliburton...at 10, not at 2, and not expecting either to start in the near future. The hole I would expect either to fill would be a scoring combo guard off the bench to back up Booker, with the hope that one could eventually develop into Rubio's replacement several years down the road. That is far different than expecting either to replace Rubio in the starting line-up in one year without our team taking a major step backward.

I think you need to get off the one year thing.

Because I mentioned there is a possibility Rubio could be traded a year before his contract expires doesn't mean it's going to happen or it would need to happen.

It's more important to draft the right player... BPA.

 

[1Sun]

I think you need to get off the one year thing.

Because I mentioned there is a possibility Rubio could be traded a year before his contract expires doesn't mean it's going to happen or it would need to happen.

It's more important to draft the right player... BPA.

There we agree. I just also think that when we do, the expectations need to be realistic, and we cannot afford to assign too big of a role too soon.

My bigger concern is using Oubre as a trade chip to trade up in a weak draft with unrealistic expectations for whichever player we draft at, say, 2, rather than to use Oubre to acquire a veteran at a position of need if we decide to trade him rather than pay him.

 

[JerkFace]

There we agree. I just also think that when we do, the expectations need to be realistic, and we cannot afford to assign too big of a role too soon.

Then why do you keep suggesting that if we draft Smith or Precious that they would start at PF for us?

 

[1Sun]

Then why do you keep suggesting that if we draft Smith or Precious that they would start at PF for us?

Because right now, they are better than any power forward we currently have on the roster.

I would prefer to get a capable veteran power forward via trade or free agency, so that whoever we draft at 10 can come off the bench.

 

[JerkFace]

I’m not a fan of ScoopB and unfollowed him years ago because 90% of his tweets are him patting himself on the back for getting one of the many things he throws against the wall right. But anyways, this is kind of interesting:

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[Hoop Head]

I’m not a fan of ScoopB and unfollowed him years ago because 90% of his tweets are him patting himself on the back for getting one of the many things he throws against the wall right. But anyways, this is kind of interesting:

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

Worth mentioning that the Pacers were viewed as the top destination for Rubio last offseason, before they signed Brogdon. If they would work a deal involving #10, a future 1st, and Rubio for Oladipo I'd be good with that.

I've always liked Oladipo and hoped the Suns could draft him back when he entered the league but he went #2 and the Suns got stuck with Len. I think he'd make a good pairing with Booker here and would be more of a 2nd star here until Ayton really earned that role himself.

 

[Mainstreet]

Worth mentioning that the Pacers were viewed as the top destination for Rubio last offseason, before they signed Brogdon. If they would work a deal involving #10, a future 1st, and Rubio for Oladipo I'd be good with that.

I've always liked Oladipo and hoped the Suns could draft him back when he entered the league but he went #2 and the Suns got stuck with Len. I think he'd make a good pairing with Booker here and would be more of a 2nd star here until Ayton really earned that role himself.

That's a lot to give up for a player that has played only played 55 games the last two seasons with only one year left on his contract. The Suns or any team would be gambling he would return to 2017/18 form.

Morten Jensen of Forbes writes:

If a team trades for him hoping he’ll become their primary player and a sure-fire All-NBA player again, there might be reason to hesitate. But if they trade for him to play a certain role where defensive is prioritized, and his offensive production is more of an afterthought, that might be a better plan that incorporates the concern that 17/18 Victor Oladipo might have been a slightly inflated version of what he truly is.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/morten...ba-teams-need-to-ask-themselves/#4419e5b71bd1

Of course the Suns can't keep waiting for a future that never comes.

Myles Turner might solve more problems.

 

[hcsilla]

After his injury Oladipo is nowhere near to the level where he was pre-injury.

Besides I just don't see him and Booker in the same back-court.

 

[Finito]

Worth mentioning that the Pacers were viewed as the top destination for Rubio last offseason, before they signed Brogdon. If they would work a deal involving #10, a future 1st, and Rubio for Oladipo I'd be good with that.

I've always liked Oladipo and hoped the Suns could draft him back when he entered the league but he went #2 and the Suns got stuck with Len. I think he'd make a good pairing with Booker here and would be more of a 2nd star here until Ayton really earned that role himself.

So we trade our quality point guard a year after signing him. That leaves us with a massive hole at PG now and a crap load of wings.

 

[Hoop Head]

So we trade our quality point guard a year after signing him. That leaves us with a massive hole at PG now and a crap load of wings.

Oladipo is not a wing, he's a combo guard who has and can effectively play PG. A starting backcourt of Oladipo and Booker would be fine when it comes to facilitating for others. Oladipo is a better ball handler than Book so I'd have him as the primary PG but it wouldn't matter a whole lot which is primary and which is secondary because they're both good playmakers and scorers.

Oladipo brings a lot more than Rubio to the table. While I like Ricky, all he does is dish. He can't be counted on to do more than that offensively. Oladipo meanwhile would be what a lot of people are calling for, a combo guard to backup Booker and Rubio, except he'd be starting with Booker. The Suns could then try and find a more traditional PG to back up those 2.

 

[Finito]

Oladipo is not a wing, he's a combo guard who has and can effectively play PG. A starting backcourt of Oladipo and Booker would be fine when it comes to facilitating for others. Oladipo is a better ball handler than Book so I'd have him as the primary PG but it wouldn't matter a whole lot which is primary and which is secondary because they're both good playmakers and scorers.

Oladipo brings a lot more than Rubio to the table. While I like Ricky, all he does is dish. He can't be counted on to do more than that offensively. Oladipo meanwhile would be what a lot of people are calling for, a combo guard to backup Booker and Rubio, except he'd be starting with Booker. The Suns could then try and find a more traditional PG to back up those 2.

Oladipo is not a PG stop. That’s asking way to much. Just cause can play PG in a pinch doesn’t mean he’s a full time PG in the NBA same with Booker.

That’s what we need is a PG who can distribute who can get Booker and Ayton the ball. Booker is the only guy on this roster that can get his own shot.

we just went through all this with no real PG on the roster