Suns updates and discussion for the 2019-20 season

[Phrazbit]

I'm really disappointed in my post not being addressed.

But rather responded to with a snide generalization.

The Suns have faced teams with power in the post
for the past decade and have been no match. As
evidenced by their missing playoffs for over a decade.

You can blow off the status quo, but our status quo
during that time is nothing to be proud of.

Why are you condoning failure?

Based on this post and the one before it only makes me question if you've actually watched basketball in the last decade. Size is not the problem, it hasn't been for ages and unless the league changes the rules it never will be.

Furthermore, with our lineup of Rubio, Booker, Oubre, Bridges and Ayton, this is the "smallest" we've played in a while. Our pathetic teams in recent years have been anything but "small". Guys like Len, Bender, Chriss, the Morris bros... they certainly didn't lack for size, we probably were running much larger front courts than our foes. Yet, entirely contradictory to your antiquated beliefs... this year's "small" lineup has also been our best lineup in years. In the last decade the only successful lineup that could compare was the one with Bledsoe, Dragic as the guards and Frye as the center... another lineup that was hated by those who refuse to believe that the game as changed in the last quarter century.

 

[1Sun]

Based on this post and the one before it only makes me question if you've actually watched basketball in the last decade. Size is not the problem, it hasn't been for ages and unless the league changes the rules it never will be.

Furthermore, with our lineup of Rubio, Booker, Oubre, Bridges and Ayton, this is the "smallest" we've played in a while. Our pathetic teams in recent years have been anything but "small". Guys like Len, Bender, Chriss, the Morris bros... they certainly didn't lack for size, we probably were running much larger front courts than our foes. Yet, entirely contradictory to your antiquated beliefs... this year's "small" lineup has also been our best lineup in years. In the last decade the only successful lineup that could compare was the one with Bledsoe, Dragic as the guards and Frye as the center... another lineup that was hated by those who refuse to believe that the game as changed in the last quarter century.

And yet the two teams in the Western Conference Finals both feature a traditional 4 and 5 in their starting line-ups.

And in the Eastern Conference, Boston is an anomaly and has lightning speed in the backcourt, while Miami has in Jimmy Butler a wing who is built like a traditional 4 with the quickness of a 2...

 

[Mainstreet]

I was casually looking at the stats of Bam Adebayo and Nikola Jokic.

If Ayton is to take the next step as a center, passing (assists) and defense is where he needs to improve the most. Passing seems to be a good indicator of playoff success.

This season Jokic is averaging 7 assists and Bam Adebayo 5.1. Deandre Ayton averaged 1.9 assists this past season.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/aytonde01.html

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jokicni01.html

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/adebaba01.html

Even Jusuf averaged 4.0 assists this past season.

 

[Yuma]

Guys have to make cuts when he gets the ball. Many times I just see guys waiting for him to shoot to crash the boards when he gets the ball. Movement on offense is sometimes our weakness.

 

[Mainstreet]

Guys have to make cuts when he gets the ball. Many times I just see guys waiting for him to shoot to crash the boards when he gets the ball. Movement on offense is sometimes our weakness.

The question is for me, is Ayton's lower number of assists a reflection he is not looking to pass the ball or not very good at it. Maybe this is why there are not more cutters?

I'm not sure where the problem is.

 

[Chaplin]

The question is for me, is Ayton's lower number of assists a reflection he is not looking to pass the ball or not very good at it. Maybe this is why there are not more cutters?

I'm not sure where the problem is.

It's not like he got dozens of touches either. Context people, context! You want him to get more assists? You have to put him in a position to actually do it (let alone cutters like Yuma mentioned). He's nowhere near a point center like Bam and Jokic are.

 

[Mainstreet]

And yet the two teams in the Western Conference Finals both feature a traditional 4 and 5 in their starting line-ups.

And in the Eastern Conference, Boston is an anomaly and has lightning speed in the backcourt, while Miami has in Jimmy Butler a wing who is built like a traditional 4 with the quickness of a 2...

Kelly Oubre surpasses what Markieff Morris and Paul Millsap are producing at power forward.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/morrima02.html

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/millspa01.html

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/o/oubreke01.html

 

[Mainstreet]

It's not like he got dozens of touches either. Context people, context! You want him to get more assists? You have to put him in a position to actually do it (let alone cutters like Yuma mentioned). He's nowhere near a point center like Bam and Jokic are.

I'm looking at what Ayton needs to do to take the next step as a center.

No one expects Ayton to be where Bam and Jokic are this season but Ayton is only a year younger than Bam.

If Ayton wants to be special, passing can help him get there.

 

[Chaplin]

I'm looking at what Ayton needs to do to take the next step as a center.

No one expects Ayton to be where Bam and Jokic are this season but Ayton is only a year younger than Bam.

If Ayton wants to be special, passing can help him get there.

Sure, but let's take it one step at a time first. Get to the free throw line and be aggressive. Worry about passing later.

 

[1Sun]

Kelly Oubre surpasses what Markieff Morris and Paul Millsap are producing at power forward.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/morrima02.html

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/millspa01.html

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/o/oubreke01.html

It's not about the numbers. It's about the match-ups.

 

[Mainstreet]

It's not about the numbers. It's about the match-ups.

Match-ups cuts both ways.

It's not just about having someone with the power forward label after their name.

 

[95pro]

I was casually looking at the stats of Bam Adebayo and Nikola Jokic.

If Ayton is to take the next step as a center, passing (assists) and defense is where he needs to improve the most. Passing seems to be a good indicator of playoff success.

This season Jokic is averaging 7 assists and Bam Adebayo 5.1. Deandre Ayton averaged 1.9 assists this past season.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/aytonde01.html

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jokicni01.html

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/adebaba01.html

Even Jusuf averaged 4.0 assists this past season.

Ayton doesnt really get fed, the offense isn't centered around him. Also comes down to basketball IQ from the other guys. For example Cam was getting some nice backcuts and cuts going for scoring in the bubble.

But Jokic has been a natural passer and is freakin lengthy. Other notable bigman who could pass usually could palm the ball at will, Ayton just seems to not have massive hands.

 

[Mainstreet]

Ayton doesnt really get fed, the offense isn't centered around him. Also comes down to basketball IQ from the other guys. For example Cam was getting some nice backcuts and cuts going for scoring in the bubble.

But Jokic has been a natural passer and is freakin lengthy. Other notable bigman who could pass usually could palm the ball at will, Ayton just seems to not have massive hands.

I was wondering about the hand size of Ayton. There should be a measurement somewhere.

This is all I could find. His hands look pretty large on the pdf.

https://tucson.com/sports/arizonawi...cle_4ffd3a18-d230-11e8-a694-ab094ab63dac.html

 

[Mainstreet]

@95pro

Ayton's hands appear to be quite large.

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[1Sun]

Match-ups cuts both ways.

It's not just about having someone with the power forward label after their name.

We don't get the advantage our way, at least not with Cam and Bridges, as both have power forward speed/quickness (or lack thereof) but not power forward strength or bulk.

Having a disadvantage in strength and bulk while not having a speed/quickness advantage is a sure handicap...

 

[BC867]

Based on this post and the one before it only makes me question if you've actually watched basketball in the last decade. Size is not the problem, it hasn't been for ages and unless the league changes the rules it never will be.

Furthermore, with our lineup of Rubio, Booker, Oubre, Bridges and Ayton, this is the "smallest" we've played in a while. Our pathetic teams in recent years have been anything but "small". Guys like Len, Bender, Chriss, the Morris bros... they certainly didn't lack for size, we probably were running much larger front courts than our foes. Yet, entirely contradictory to your antiquated beliefs... this year's "small" lineup has also been our best lineup in years. In the last decade the only successful lineup that could compare was the one with Bledsoe, Dragic as the guards and Frye as the center... another lineup that was hated by those who refuse to believe that the game as changed in the last quarter century.

The size you're referring to is height.

The size I've referred to is bulk.
Power in the post.

Barkley was the best example.
His actual height was 6'4 1/2".

And the mental attitude to use it.

Which Deandre has not, with his
tendency to avoid contact, not
get free throws and play twenty
feet from the basket.

 

[95pro]

@95pro

Ayton's hands appear to be quite large.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

@95pro

Ayton's hands appear to be quite large.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

Large is respect to us normal joe's, thats why i used the word "massive". But to a basketball, seems like the ball wants to squirt out of his hands.

 

[Yuma]

Large is respect to us normal joe's, thats why i used the word "massive". But to a basketball, seems like the ball wants to squirt out of his hands.

On an Alex Len scale of uncatchibility, where do you think Ayton ends up? 1 Len for Horrible to 10 Lens for average?

 

[Mainstreet]

Large is respect to us normal joe's, thats why i used the word "massive". But to a basketball, seems like the ball wants to squirt out of his hands.

Ayton hand's are much larger than the normal joe. I'm not sure they are massive but they are quite large.

In the picture, his hand is not even fully spread. If someone could do the pdf. of the hand that would help. I will try to do it if I get the chance.

Anyway Ayton's hands should be plenty big enough for handling the basketball and catching passes.

Edit: I can't get the pdf. to work but I found it somewhere earlier.

 

[Chaplin]

Large is respect to us normal joe's, thats why i used the word "massive". But to a basketball, seems like the ball wants to squirt out of his hands.

I'm curious to know where this is coming from. I remember there being general consensus that Ayton has pretty good hands.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I'm curious to know where this is coming from. I remember there being general consensus that Ayton has pretty good hands.

I think he had a bunch of games this year where he looked like he was playing Edward 40s Hands.

 

[Phrazbit]

I think he had a bunch of games this year where he looked like he was playing Edward 40s Hands.

His problem was that he would put the ball on the court or hold it too low, anyone can get stripped doing that. It is a mistake he needs to fix.

When I think of "bad hands" I think of Alex Len, who couldn't catch an entry pass and occasionally seemed to lack thumbs.

Marquis Chrss deserves a mention too. His ability to blow dunks by having the ball fly out of his hands is unparalleled.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

His problem was that he would put the ball on the court or hold it too low, anyone can get stripped doing that. It is a mistake he needs to fix.

When I think of "bad hands" I think of Alex Len, who couldn't catch an entry pass and occasionally seemed to lack thumbs.

Marquis Chrss deserves a mention too. His ability to blow dunks by having the ball fly out of his hands is unparalleled.

That was part of it, but he also had trouble hanging onto passes. Particularly early in the bubble of I recall correctly.

 

[Phrazbit]

That was part of it, but he also had trouble hanging onto passes. Particularly early in the bubble of I recall correctly.

Maybe he had a play here and there, but honestly, the guy has magnets for hands compared to most bigs. What irks me is that he frequently gets the ball in situations where he should be able to go straight at the rim and get an easy score or draw a foul, but instead he either brings the ball low or takes a dribble, which allows the defense to either strip the ball or collapse and force him into a lousy shot.

Ayton's lack off assertiveness drives me nuts, it is a legit critique. If he just took the easy opportunities that his skill and size presents on a routine basis he either score a few more easy baskets or draw several more fouls a game. But I honestly don't think he has bad hands... not at all. His turnovers are because he presents the defense with opportunity to strip him of the ball, rather than his own inability to catch it in the first place.

 

[Carolinacacti]

Suns just need to improve the Bench this short off season........Suns bench played the bottom of teams rosters in the bubble because some players rested. Like to see this team play a season with the starters all their.