Suns updates and discussion for the 2021-22 season

[sdscard4]

Just the last 10 years of draft picks has really stunk...Booker ...Bridges...Ayton and Cam is about it...this ain't a JJ issue.

 

[Chaplin]

I wish Jalen Smith well but it's going to haunt the Suns if he turns into a good player.

Last season I would have almost given him away (and something else) for a 4 that could play before the trade deadline.

Now when I see the light flicker, the Suns don't pick up his option. So frustrating.

You are really overrating Jalen Smith and his contribution, which is basically nil. He's barely even a "nice to have" player right now. He was fine in the last game, but to think he will continue that play on a consistent basis just isn't based in any form or reality whatsoever. He's one of those players that I think after today's decision as "meh". If we would have picked up his option, I would have also been, "meh".

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

yeah... not a fan of this move. we basically admitted our 2020 lotto pick is a bust. can only think that hurts his trade value.

At the beginning of his second year no less. The blush is starting to wear off jones a bit.

 

[Chaplin]

At the beginning of his second year no less. The blush is starting to wear off jones a bit.

How so? Just because he didn't pick up Jalen Smith's option? Are you serious? Maybe you are also counting Shamet's contract. But both those things are far overshadowed by the McGee signing, the conctracts of Cam Payne and Chris Paul and the pickup of Cam's option. How is it wearing off? In fact, I'd pose it's getting better considering the Paul signing ended up more like magic than any real skill and expectation from James Jones last season.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

"By all accounts" is a gross exaggeration. None of the preseason reports had him making significant enough progress to crack the lineup on a regular basis. None of the preseason reports I read said anything either about his offseason progress being significant compared to the last couple years. Some of the reports were "hoping" this would be the year for him to step up.

Yeah and he didn’t show much other than complete offensive awkwardness and a blocked shot in the Cleveland game. Those that were mad at jones for taking a project with a lottery pick and passing on Haliburton were 100% vindicated.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Part of why I saw people rated it average had to do with James Jones hitting on the Cam Johnson pick a year prior, which was also considered a reach at the time. Trusting JJ at the time made sense since he proved everyone who doubted him wrong. It was a reach still and today's actions prove that.

The only upside is it's a little refreshing to know JJ won't waste time on players who haven't shown enough to warrant the investment. That's quite different than the McD years where we stuck with young guys for far too long.

Agree with all this.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

How so? Just because he didn't pick up Jalen Smith's option? Are you serious? Maybe you are also counting Shamet's contract. But both those things are far overshadowed by the McGee signing, the conctracts of Cam Payne and Chris Paul and the pickup of Cam's option. How is it wearing off? In fact, I'd pose it's getting better considering the Paul signing ended up more like magic than any real skill and expectation from James Jones last season.

I take each item as they come. Last year almost everything jones touched was magic except we questioned stix pick. This offseason has been a mixed bag. Some really fantastic moves, which you’ve noted. Some “eh” moves (jury is out on trading for shamet - didn’t love it/ didn’t hate it). Some frustrating moves (Ayton deal - whatever it is, it isn’t a happy/good situation). And two bad situations (shamet extensions and confirmation that smith was a bust).

And note, I said “starting to” not “it has.” Every journey starts with a single step. That said before you blow my comment outta proportion, I see the good far outweighing the bad in the jones regime (like 90-10 good-bad).

 

[Mainstreet]

Just the last 10 years of draft picks has really stunk...Booker ...Bridges...Ayton and Cam is about it...this ain't a JJ issue.

Ironically Ryan McDonough was the GM when Booker, Ayton and Bridges were selected.

It's those misses on Dragan Bender, Marquese Chriss and Josh Jackson that linger.

 

[Mainstreet]

I wanted the Suns to draft Haliburton in the 2020 draft but it's too early to write-off a 21 year old player drafted #10th when the Suns are only 5 games into his second season.

Maybe Smith can't hit the corner three but this doesn't mean he can't play.

The Suns drafted a raw young center, wanting a power forward. What did they expect?

However, the bigger issue for me is the Suns giving up on the development of young talent. I hope Ayton doesn't fall in this category as he is the youngest player on the team other than Smith.

 

[GatorAZ]

It all goes back to Stix being more of a 5 than a 4 but James Jones is the one that drafted him. I wanted Haliburton.

Most of us wanted Halliburton in real time but would’ve been fine with Vassell or Bey. Smith was a trash pick and taking a backup-5 in the lottery was a terrible idea. That said I think declining his option was a mistake because you’re already labeling him a bust. He would’ve had more value with team control because his cap hit is far from egregious.

 

[Finito]

I don't understand why many people are upset. Smith is just not a good player. This is no different than Jones cutting Bender and Chriss by declining their options. It sucks that he blew the pick, but that's a whole different issues.

Smith is not a Bender or Chriss at all. The hate this kid gets is so ridiculous. You drafted him to be a project and he’s shown steady improvement you have to let it play out

 

[Hoop Head]

Smith is not a Bender or Chriss at all. The hate this kid gets is so ridiculous. You drafted him to be a project and he’s shown steady improvement you have to let it play out

He went from not sniffing the floor to seeing minimal minutes against a big team where he was the 10th man in the rotation. If Ayton didn't get hurt, who knows how many minutes he would have seen. He showed improvement but that's more because he showed so little before.

I would have preferred the option be picked up but lets not pretend his play makes this a real head scratcher. He looks like a 2nd rounder but was the #10 pick, I can understand why they're moving on. He'll never live up to lottery expectations here.

 

[Muggz]

They did it to scare the crap out of DA.

 

[JerkFace]

The main issue I have with not picking up the option is that it has to be one of two things. Either Sarver wanted to save the money, or we wanted the roster spot next year. Both options are frustrating though. We are going to be over the salary cap next year so it isn’t like we can use the 4.8 million somewhere else, the money just goes away (back into Sarver’s pocket). So the Suns aren’t saving any money or creating any salary cap room, Sarver just saves some money. The only other reason to cut him is because you want to use his roster spot next year to sign a veteran minimum player. I don’t care how bad a player is, when you spend the #10 pick on a project there is no rational explanation for replacing him with the 15th man on the bench after only 2 years, unless he is some sort of locker room cancer. That is just asinine.

 

[Hoop Head]

The main issue I have with not picking up the option is that it has to be one of two things. Either Sarver wanted to save the money, or we wanted the roster spot next year. Both options are frustrating though. We are going to be over the salary cap next year so it isn’t like we can use the 4.8 million somewhere else, the money just goes away (back into Sarver’s pocket). So the Suns aren’t saving any money or creating any salary cap room, Sarver just saves some money. The only other reason to cut him is because you want to use his roster spot next year to sign a veteran minimum player. I don’t care how bad a player is, when you spend the #10 pick on a project there is no rational explanation for replacing him with the 15th man on the bench after only 2 years, unless he is some sort of locker room cancer. That is just asinine.

If you think his contributions can be replaced by someone on the vet minimum then I don't fault the team for letting him go. I do fault them for drafting him.

We'll be in the luxury tax next season so it's not about saving cap space but getting the best value for your dollar and I don't blame Sarver for that. I wish we had an owner who was more willing to spend but very few will spend recklessly. Once a team hits the luxury tax then every dollar counts because it also has to be matched in fines but it also keeps that team from taking a cut from the other luxury tax teams, which lowers profits even more.


All luxury tax fines are paid into a pot that is split amongst all the teams that aren't tax payers. When you're paying your competition for your own roster it starts to hurt. When you're paying the tax, you don't get that cut either that probably 2/3 of the league does, which is usually sizable. It's a good system to dissuade teams from overspending but it also keeps small and mid market teams from going deep into the tax for any extended period.

 

[Finito]

He went from not sniffing the floor to seeing minimal minutes against a big team where he was the 10th man in the rotation. If Ayton didn't get hurt, who knows how many minutes he would have seen. He showed improvement but that's more because he showed so little before.

I would have preferred the option be picked up but lets not pretend his play makes this a real head scratcher. He looks like a 2nd rounder but was the #10 pick, I can understand why they're moving on. He'll never live up to lottery expectations here.

Ok

 

[Finito]

The main issue I have with not picking up the option is that it has to be one of two things. Either Sarver wanted to save the money, or we wanted the roster spot next year. Both options are frustrating though. We are going to be over the salary cap next year so it isn’t like we can use the 4.8 million somewhere else, the money just goes away (back into Sarver’s pocket). So the Suns aren’t saving any money or creating any salary cap room, Sarver just saves some money. The only other reason to cut him is because you want to use his roster spot next year to sign a veteran minimum player. I don’t care how bad a player is, when you spend the #10 pick on a project there is no rational explanation for replacing him with the 15th man on the bench after only 2 years, unless he is some sort of locker room cancer. That is just asinine.

This is 100% a Sarver money saving move. Same thing when we used to sell picks. That’s all this is for those old enough we’ve seen this before

 

[Covert Rain]

Smith is not a Bender or Chriss at all. The hate this kid gets is so ridiculous. You drafted him to be a project and he’s shown steady improvement you have to let it play out

Calling out what you see and the fact that a 10th pick in the draft has not been able to crack the lineup since he got here is not hate. Despite having a ton of coaching resources but has made seemingly little progress is not hate or ridiculous. It's calling it out for what it is. He is a project player, drafted way too high and has not panned out. No hate required.

Look I have no doubt money was a factor. In fact, if you look at the pass on Ayton, the other unspent money and now this. It all screams Sarver IMO. However, looking at this move in a vacuum, it's a justifiable move based on what we have seen from him. I bet not wanting to spend the money was a factor but it wasn't the only factor IMO. This move in itself doesn't upset me.

 

[Carolinacacti]

Yes it looks like Sarver. But maybe Jones is really running the show.

 

[SirStefan32]

Smith is not a Bender or Chriss at all. The hate this kid gets is so ridiculous. You drafted him to be a project and he’s shown steady improvement you have to let it play out

It's not "hate"- he is just not a good player. He is not any better than Chriss or Bender.

 

[Mainstreet]

It's not "hate"- he is just not a good player. He is not any better than Chriss or Bender.

This could be true but the problem is we do not know this.

He has only played in 29 games with limited minutes over 1+ seasons.

 

[capologist]

This could be true but the problem is we do not know this.

He has only played in 29 games with limited minutes over 1+ seasons.

I’ve played even less. Maybe the Suns should pay me $4.5M/yr.

 

[AzStevenCal]

This could be true but the problem is we do not know this.

He has only played in 29 games with limited minutes over 1+ seasons.

You're right that he's only received few and sporadic minutes but in the time we have seen him play I feel safe in saying that he is far less developed than either Bender or Chriss. And I wasn't a fan of either.

Part of Smith's poor showing could be due to the health problems he experienced his rookie season (injury and covid) but his time on the court (regular, preseason and summer league) is all we have to go by.

 

[Mainstreet]

I’ve played even less. Maybe the Suns should pay me $4.5M/yr.

Wouldn't that be nice. I'm afraid you will have to get in line behind the rest of us.

 

[Mainstreet]

You're right that he's only received few and sporadic minutes but in the time we have seen him play I feel safe in saying that he is far less developed than either Bender or Chriss. And I wasn't a fan of either.

Part of Smith's poor showing could be due to the health problems he experienced his rookie season (injury and covid) but his time on the court (regular, preseason and summer league) is all we have to go by.

I simply think it's too early to write off a player with the skills to get drafted #10.

James Jones must have seen something in him to draft him that early.

I don't think much has changed except he has not been able to hit the three in game situations. I've always been a believer in playing to a player's strengths and not his weaknesses.

Now I'm just waiting for Stix to be included in a trade.