Suns updates and discussion for the 2021-22 season

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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I said it would make him a more rounded player as well. I said, if you are telling me a guy shooting over 80% at the rim and over 70% last year would get better quality shots than those that is nuts. He simply is creating high percentage easy buckets that he otherwise wouldn't get even if he could create his own shot IMO. Could that skill open up the offense? OK, I will buy that. I can't buy that the Suns would get as many easy buckets at the rim at the same clip they are getting and at that high of a percentage. The league average isn't even as high as what he is doing right now. He finished elite last season and way above the league average.

I do remember the playoffs. The team was banged up in multiple ways. In that scenario I agree with you it could have helped. Again, I am not denying that him being a better creator couldn't help open up other aspects of the team. I am saying that even if he could? No way he matches what he did last year or at the clip he is on this year specifically at the rim. He would likely be trading those cuts for other types of possessions where he creates. You have to have the ball in his hand to create his own shot. Those possessions have to come from somewhere. I mean maybe he could get all the way to the bucket just as easy as those cuts? I doubt it.
Maybe, just maybe, those shot come from the trips where he takes a single dribble and stops and passes it back out because he’s incapable of taking it all the way. He gets plenty of touches. Those more effective drives can more likely replace his ineffective touches.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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That's fair but the fact he has been elite at the rim last season and this season means most of the time he is not getting cut off. Teams, even without Mikel having that skill, have not been able to slow him down consistently. He isn't going to get much more efficient there. I do agree with what Cheese said though. Having another playmaker when the team is shorthanded or struggling could definitely help. It's a valid point.
No. This is an incorrect statement. Being elite at the rim doesn’t mean being elite at getting to the rim. In fact, his elite level at the rim is even a greater argument as to how impactful adding that to his game would be. At least two times per game he’s stymied (maybe more). If he was capable of getting to the rim better let’s say he only makes 50% of those two (and that’s well below your elite at the rim percentage), he’d average a whopping 2 points per game more. And 2 points per game is a pretty healthy jump for a younger player. And it wouldn’t decrease his efficiency much because we’d be replacing two empty touches of his (when he gets stymied not only does he not have a chance to score, but it almost never creates a good shot for anyone else either) with 2 points.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Huh? Thanks for making my point. How do you get more efficient than the clear path to the basket shots he is getting at the rim now?!? I guess you are saying his numbers would be even better and he would be getting more easy buckets. I think he would be tempted to dribble and create trading in some of those easy buckets.
How could he be dribbling and creating in those scenarios where by definition, as a cutter, he does not have the ball to initiate the play? The only instances he would be driving would be when he possesses the ball. So either less three point shots or less one dribble and stymied. I doubt his 3 ball would disappear, so look where that leaves us?
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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It's amazing to see how clutch Booker and Paul have been. It's easy to overlook Booker because so much is expected of him.

This is where those close wins are coming from.

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That’s fantastic and will only make our team better.
 

Covert Rain

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How could he be dribbling and creating in those scenarios where by definition, as a cutter, he does not have the ball to initiate the play? The only instances he would be driving would be when he possesses the ball. So either less three point shots or less one dribble and stymied. I doubt his 3 ball would disappear, so look where that leaves us?
He is not going trade easy buckets for other types of shots like dribble and creating his own shot.
 

1tinsoldier

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MONTH 1 NOTES

i like how Monty is often letting CP3 get games under control in the 4th before inserting Booker for offense with about 5 minutes to go

after a raw deal of 3 games in 4 nights to open the season, the Suns are back to winning, even though they haven't played their best in many of them.

The bench has been weaker, especially the Cams. and we screwed up by keeping Nader instead of Torrey Craig. Nader is giving us nothing. though Craig did disappoint in the playoffs, he was terrific in the regular season last year, especially his defensive energy.

imo, the Ayton, McGee, and Tank trio is the strongest we've ever been at the center position
 
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Ouchie-Z-Clown

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He is not going trade easy buckets for other types of shots like dribble and creating his own shot.
You’re contending that if he became a proficient ball handler capable of taking his defender off the dribble he wouldn’t do that instead of the one dribble pull up or one dribble and pass back out ineffectually? Okay. Weird. But okay.
 
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MONTH 1 NOTES

i like how Monty is often letting CP3 get games under control in the 4th before inserting Booker for offense with about 5 minutes to go

after a raw deal of 3 games in 4 nights to open the season, the Suns are back to winning, even though they haven't played their best in many of them.

The bench has been weaker, especially the Cams. and we screwed up by keeping Nader instead of Torrey Craig. Nader is giving us nothing. though Craig did disappoint in the playoffs, he was terrific in the regular season last year, especially his defensive energy.

imo, the Ayton, McGee, and Tank trio is the strongest we've ever been at the center position

In regard to Craig and Nader contracts.

Nader signed a 2-year contract with Suns but only $2 million is guaranteed. The second year is a team option.

Craig signed with the Pacers for 2 years/$10 million all guaranteed.

I think the Suns chose to save money,
 

Covert Rain

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You’re contending that if he became a proficient ball handler capable of taking his defender off the dribble he wouldn’t do that instead of the one dribble pull up or one dribble and pass back out ineffectually? Okay. Weird. But okay.
The Suns seem to call alot of those rub plays off the ball and it's working in spades. I am saying I find it hard to believe they are going to trade those for throwing the ball to Bridges, saying "go create" and hoping he can shoot at the same % as he does at the rim instead. This team is packed with shooters and guys like Paul and Book need the ball in their hands. There is only so many balls to go around.
 

CardsSunsDbacks

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The Suns seem to call alot of those rub plays off the ball and it's working in spades. I am saying I find it hard to believe they are going to trade those for throwing the ball to Bridges, saying "go create" and hoping he can shoot at the same % as he does at the rim instead. This team is packed with shooters and guys like Paul and Book need the ball in their hands. There is only so many balls to go around.
No one is asking for them to throw the ball to Bridges to go ISO. We are saying we would like to see him more consistently show that he can do those things when he is run off the line or cut off from the basket or when he catches the ball with the clock winding down. I don't think anyone is asking to see Bridges ISO as a significant part of the offense.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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The Suns seem to call alot of those rub plays off the ball and it's working in spades. I am saying I find it hard to believe they are going to trade those for throwing the ball to Bridges, saying "go create" and hoping he can shoot at the same % as he does at the rim instead. This team is packed with shooters and guys like Paul and Book need the ball in their hands. There is only so many balls to go around.
Either you’re not reading what I’m writing or you’re purposefully ignoring what I’m saying. They wouldn’t have to run any additional plays for Bridges. Bridges enhanced driving ability would just turn the EXISTING one dribble and shoot or one dribble and pass out because he got nowhere into actual full blown drives to the basket. I’m a bit flummoxed that you seem to be arguing against the utility of Bridges becoming a better driver. There’s literally no argument to be made in the con side of the ledger.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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No one is asking for them to throw the ball to Bridges to go ISO. We are saying we would like to see him more consistently show that he can do those things when he is run off the line or cut off from the basket or when he catches the ball with the clock winding down. I don't think anyone is asking to see Bridges ISO as a significant part of the offense.
Exactly
 

Covert Rain

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Either you’re not reading what I’m writing or you’re purposefully ignoring what I’m saying. They wouldn’t have to run any additional plays for Bridges. Bridges enhanced driving ability would just turn the EXISTING one dribble and shoot or one dribble and pass out because he got nowhere into actual full blown drives to the basket. I’m a bit flummoxed that you seem to be arguing against the utility of Bridges becoming a better driver. There’s literally no argument to be made in the con side of the ledger.
Nobody is saying that Brisges wouldn’t be an all around better player if he could develop that skill set. What I am saying is that when you call offensive sets you go with plays that are generating high percentage shots until the the other team proves they can stop you. He is making shots at the rim at such a high percentage I don’t see them going away from it that often. As your brother pointed out and I said is a valid point is that it would be useful during injury scenarios or if nothing else is working. If you are flummexed it’s because you are reading into something I am not arguing. I never argued against him developing that part of his game.
 

Phrazbit

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I think Bridges is exceeding his contract, his defense is absolutely elite. He should have been all-nba last year, I suspect he will get his due this year.

That said... I was hoping his offense would be making another stride this season and so far it hasn't been there. In the playoffs he was beginning to show some springy, mid range, pull up moves, getting the ball out wide, dribbling towards the paint and then catching teams off guard with a quick pull up when they collapsed towards the rim. He seems to have abandoned that move so far this year.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Nobody is saying that Brisges wouldn’t be an all around better player if he could develop that skill set. What I am saying is that when you call offensive sets you go with plays that are generating high percentage shots until the the other team proves they can stop you. He is making shots at the rim at such a high percentage I don’t see them going away from it that often. As your brother pointed out and I said is a valid point is that it would be useful during injury scenarios or if nothing else is working. If you are flummexed it’s because you are reading into something I am not arguing. I never argued against him developing that part of his game.
Forget it. You obviously are completely missing the point I’ve been making.
 

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