Suns vs Magic Game Thread

[sunsfan88]

What happened to Michael Redd? Why did we let him go?

I would much rather have him than Dudley or Brown!

 

[95pro]

Should have scraped Johnson. Bring in Dudley and Redd off the bench to add some consistency to this week second unit.

You would have telfair, redd, duds, oneal. And what ever pf, I guess it has to be Morris.

 

[slinslin]

Its horrible. And his team was better when he got buried on the bench.

points per shot is a flawed statistic because it takes freethrows into account

it tells you nothing about shooting efficiency. Beasley shot 45% from the floor and 37% from 3 while scoring over 19ppg. That is clearly good. He didn't get to the line that is all.

 

[Phrazbit]

points per shot is a flawed statistic because it takes freethrows into account

it tells you nothing about shooting efficiency. Beasley shot 45% from the floor and 37% from 3 while scoring over 19ppg. That is clearly good. He didn't get to the line that is all.

I know it takes free throws into account, and you know what else takes free throws into account? The final score! Beasley is a crap scorer because despite having a good mid range jumper he actively avoids contact and almost never goes inside. So you've got a guy who spends his nights cranking up contested 18 foot jumpers out of isolation plays that totally disrupt any semblance of offensive flow, he does not get to the line and he does not do anything to aid the offense outside of his long jumpers. What you have there is a crappy, inefficient player who would have to shoot ungodly percentages from the field to make up for his total lack of production in other aspects. Yeah, there will be nights where he gets hot from range and has good scoring game, but seeing as he relies entirely on his jumper and he never gets to the line he ends up being absurdly inconsistent, and for every night where he goes 12 of 19 for 27 points, he will have 4 nights where he shoots 3-12 for 7 points.

And thats just him on offense! Defensively your team might as well be 4 on 5.

He belongs on the bench. Best case for him is a small forward version of Jason Terry. Someone you pop in, see if he is hot and can carry you, if not you yank him. Leaving him out there as a starter with a green light to gun for 30 minutes a game is a recipe for a 17 win season, as Minnesota learned.

 

[slinslin]

if you score 19+ppg on 45%+ FG and 37% 3s you are not inefficient.

Must be hard for you to understand that points per shot is no measure of efficiency at all.

Player A makes 5 of 10 FG and 0 of 0 FT so he scores 10 points on presumably 10 posessions. 1 point per shot.

Player B makes 3 of 10 FG and 5 of 12 FT so he scores 11 points on presumably 16 posessions. 1.1 point per shot.

Who was more efficient Player A or B? Not sure you need the answer.

And why even bash Beasley for his defense? He is not even the worst defender in the starting lineup.

 

[Phrazbit]

if you score 19+ppg on 45%+ FG and 37% 3s you are not inefficient.

Must be hard for you to understand that points per shot is no measure of efficiency at all.

Player A makes 5 of 10 FG and 0 of 0 FT so he scores 10 points on presumably 10 posessions. 1 point per shot.

Player B makes 3 of 10 FG and 5 of 12 FT so he scores 11 points on presumably 16 posessions. 1.1 point per shot.

Who was more efficient Player A or B? Not sure you need the answer.

And why even bash Beasley for his defense? He is not even the worst defender in the starting lineup.

lol, I like how your scenario uses a free throw shooter that makes Dwight Howard look accurate. So what your story tells us is that if a player is a 40% free throw shooter and a 30% shooter from the field that he is probably not good...

But you're right, who wants a guy who can force and 1s, get the other team in foul trouble and can create easy and efficient opportunities from the line. What you need is a guy who ignores his teammates on offense so he can crank up 18 foot jumpers with a guy in his face.

Beasley is offensively inefficient. Free throws matter, in lots of ways. A guy does not HAVE to get to the line to be efficient but it helps, and if you are taking up as many possessions as Beasley does and especially out of isolation and you cant get to the line then it is a serious problem.

And what you ignored is how inconsistent not getting to the line makes him. The guy has to be on fire from the field to not be a negative influence on the offense, and the odds of a dude like him of getting on fire at all and especially staying hot enough to legitimize playing him 30 minutes are almost nil.

He fits the profile of a bench scorer. You leave him in your starting lineup and your offense is going to blow in the majority of your games.

 

[slinslin]

You can spin that any way you want, you are not getting around the fact that points per shot are not a measure of efficiency at all.

If you score 19 per game on 45%FG and 37%3s you are not inefficient and I am done arguing with you if you think otherwise.

Go look at true shooting percentage if you want effeciency numbers.

 

[SunsTzu]

Go look at true shooting percentage if you want effeciency numbers.

51% TS is terrible. Not being able to get to the line is a major flaw in a primary scorer.

 

[95pro]

51% TS is terrible. Not being able to get to the line is a major flaw in a primary scorer.

this is what makes harden great, getting to the line.

 

[Phrazbit]

You can spin that any way you want, you are not getting around the fact that points per shot are not a measure of efficiency at all.

If you score 19 per game on 45%FG and 37%3s you are not inefficient and I am done arguing with you if you think otherwise.

Go look at true shooting percentage if you want effeciency numbers.

Last year Beasley ranked 231st in true shooting percentage... trailing such offensive juggernauts as Hakim Warrick, want to pick another stat? That is pretty freaking awful.

He is inefficient, and a horrible primary scoring option on a night to night basis because he is so inconsistent and his play style will never warrent itself to consistency... a part of this debate you have chosen to ignore.

 

[Errntknght]

slin,

And why even bash Beasley for his defense? He is not even the worst defender in the starting lineup.

What games are you watching? Beasley stands out as the worst defender - and I think he's actually trying some of the time now. Wait until he is miffed about something. He doesn't use Warrick's trick of switching off on a weak screen so a teammate has to cover his man for him (yet) but he's nearly as clueless.

Given who's speaking I know you're going to say that Gortat is much worse on defense... could it be even you are embarrassed to make such a such a claim when you could be vague?

 

[jagu]

slin,

What games are you watching? Beasley stands out as the worst defender - and I think he's actually trying some of the time now. Wait until he is miffed about something. He doesn't use Warrick's trick of switching off on a weak screen so a teammate has to cover his man for him (yet) but he's nearly as clueless.

Given who's speaking I know you're going to say that Gortat is much worse on defense... could it be even you are embarrassed to make such a such a claim when you could be vague?

Beasley is athletic so thus in slinslin's world he is not the worst defender.

 

[Phrazbit]

slin,

What games are you watching? Beasley stands out as the worst defender - and I think he's actually trying some of the time now. Wait until he is miffed about something. He doesn't use Warrick's trick of switching off on a weak screen so a teammate has to cover his man for him (yet) but he's nearly as clueless.

Given who's speaking I know you're going to say that Gortat is much worse on defense... could it be even you are embarrassed to make such a such a claim when you could be vague?

I didnt even notice that line...

Yes, Beasley is easily the worst defender in the starting lineup, and how that there are other bad defenders would excuse his awful play is beyond me. And its not just a matter of him being a poor man defender, he is inexcusably lazy in transition and it frequently sets up the mismatches we face on a regular basis. He is lost on defending screens. And my personal favorite move he was busting out last night is that after LeBron would get inside and dish out, that was it for Beasley on the play, his man had given up the ball so he was allowed to stand and watch... oh wait! LeBron got it back!?!?! No fair!