Suns vs. Spurs 12/28

[jibikao]

I also agree that Hunter should've played more. Especially with Q, JJ & Marion having poor shooting nights. I think the reason that D'Antoni took him out was because there were a few offensive possessions where he and Amare were in the same spot trying to post up on offense and almost ran into each other. The post was crowded with both of them down there. It's really no surprise though, because they have no experience playing together (Thanks D'Antoni).

One more note on the refs, this was the first game where I saw Nash go after the refs 3-4 times during the game because of bad calls and Amare looked like he wanted to attack the refs 2-3 times himself. Both had to be restrained during the game to avoid getting technicals. Some of that could be because of frustration, but they were getting screwed on calls and that obviously affected all of the guys mentally (especially when your two leaders & best players are so frustrated they can barely control themselves). If the refs are going to give STAR treatment.......why give it to Tony Parker and not to All-Star Steve Nash? Apparently the Duncan effect rubs off onto the whole Spurs team.

Because the media may find Spurs stopping Suns more intrigue? LOL Now people are doubting Suns here and there. A good topic to talk about... I guess.

Jimmy

 

[Cheesebeef]

Joe Mama - that was the post of the year.

I can't wait to see how we handle to upcoming schedule. If we can play a little over break even ball in February, I will be really psyched to see how this season plays out.

 

[George O'Brien]

I listened the part of the game but only watched the garbage time stuff. Most of my thoughts have noted, but here goes anyway.

1. The Suns have trouble when teams do not double Amare. It seems clear the the Spurs focused on stopping the other four players and let Amare get his points. The Suns are used to getting open looks and they didn't against the Spurs. The fact that the Spurs can get away with fouling is hardly news, but the Suns do not run enough screens for their shooters to get them open shots when facing a matchup zone.

2. The Suns decline in defensive efficiency has been a continuing issue as opponents are spending more time figuring out how to exploit the Suns small ball lineup. They will keep running the high pick & roll and the multiple screens until the Suns figure out how to defense them. They will keep attacking the basket as long as the Suns don't have a shot blocker waiting.

3. The Suns need to learn to play enough zone to make give opponents something to worry about. In the third quarter, the Suns should have gone to a zone with Hunter and Amare on the inside to force the Spurs to shoot jumpers. The Spurs were hitting everything they put up, but at least it would have cut down on layups.

4. The one good thing about the game was that the Suns were out of it early enough to give the srubs some court time. I loved Vroman's hustle and Zarko went hard to the basket. Lampe seemed a bit passive on the defensive end, but he helped to remind us why they like his potential.

5. The Suns have to learn how to win when the refs are against them. It gets into their heads too much which is worse than the fact that they are being fouled.

In any case, the Spurs proved that the Suns are not yet at the top level. Now the Suns know they have to work much harder if they want to be equated with the Spurs and Wolves.

 

[jibikao]

Just curious since I didn't watch the game...

I couldn't really concentrate at work today 'cause I keep thinking how people are trashing Suns now. LOL It's a sad reality/truth...

Anyway, Suns has been known to come back in the 4th quarter. How come Suns seemed to give up in the 4th? I mean Suns could do a 19-0 run and I was wondering why the coach let the players rest?

Spurs is known to lose leads. Q only took 7 shots (even though it's 0/7), JJ took 8 and Marion only took 10. That's not enough to win games. I've heard that our shooters pass the ball out because they hesitate too much. That's not good. What I like about Suns THE MOST is the fact that they can make a RUN at any time of the game. They can score so many pts in just a few mins. Whenever they are down (like the game in Sonics), I've always thought Suns can come back and they did in the last 2-3 mins.

I remember D'Antoni said many small balls failed in the end 'cause many teams didn't stick to it enough. They settle for half court, bigger size, slower pace and lost. I know Suns lost big in the 3rd but it shouldn't take out their confidence to come back.

If they try, it may not be a 21-pt... maybe a 10-pt loss which looks A LOT better on the paper isn't it? Now this blow-out loss will always in people's mind. And people will still doubt Suns' offense ability.

I hate Spurs so much..... agrrr. I've always hated Spurs but now I hate them even more.

Jimmy

 

[George O'Brien]

D'Antoni knew he had another game the next night. That's why he wisely wrote off the Spurs game and used it as a chance to give his deep bench guys some playing time. Why risk wearing out his starters on a long shot and risk losing a near sure thing against the Hornets?

A loss is a loss. There is no extra credit for making the game close. There is a benefit to letting deep bench guys get playing time so they can get over their jitters. At some point these guys will be needed, so letting them play helps prepare for the future.

In any case, I've seen games where the backup guys were able to get the team back into the game because they felt no pressure. It was a long shot, but no worse than the chances the Suns had of making a huge run in San Antonio.

 

[jibikao]

But isn't Suns known for making huge runs in the end?

It sounds to me like they've already broken the franchise record and it's time to let the players rest. No need to keep playing that hard.

Nash probably won't be playing that many mins 'cause they need to let Barbosa practice more on the court.

Oh well... I just didn't know why Suns didn't make runs in the end. Another way to look at it is that Suns has this back to back games so they can't afford to use all their energy in one game.... again, lucky Spurs!!!

I hope Suns kicks some major butt tonight.

Jimmy

 

[Chaz]

The Suns did make a run at the end to cut it to 21.


The Spurs did a great job of using the clock and keeping momentum down the stretch. Just when they would get something going the Spurs would make a tough shot at the end of the clock.

The style and tempo were changed in the 2nd qtr and the Suns could never turn it around. A better defensive effort in the 3rd could have turned it around but by the 4th it was a little too late.

 

[Cheesebeef]

One thing that kind of ticked me off last night during that huge Spurs run was D'Antoni not calling one timeout. I kept thinking - this is a wave - we either have to stop it with abucket or stop with a TO and we did neither.

Meanwhile - Pop called one of the best TO's I can ever remember 3/4s of the way through the 3rd. We had just gone down 21, but on back to back plays, got out and ran and scored two quick buckets. Now the lead was still at 17 - but Pop IMMEDIATELY called a TO and I knew right then, that our mini-burst was finished. They went on to pump the lead right back up and we never ran again. It's the little things we D'Antoni right now - but he's a young head coach and he's still learning the game - especially under really good cirucmstances and the guy is 24-4 so it's nothing to get up in arms about, but it's something to watch.

By the same account - Pop wasn't anything special his first couple years either, but I do think he has gotten much better and is one of the better generals on the bench now(no matter how much I was screaming at him to shut his freaking face last night - he made his point - it worked - you can't blame him for that).

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

One thing that kind of ticked me off last night during that huge Spurs run was D'Antoni not calling one timeout. I kept thinking - this is a wave - we either have to stop it with abucket or stop with a TO and we did neither.

Meanwhile - Pop called one of the best TO's I can ever remember 3/4s of the way through the 3rd. We had just gone down 21, but on back to back plays, got out and ran and scored two quick buckets. Now the lead was still at 17 - but Pop IMMEDIATELY called a TO and I knew right then, that our mini-burst was finished. They went on to pump the lead right back up and we never ran again. It's the little things we D'Antoni right now - but he's a young head coach and he's still learning the game - especially under really good cirucmstances and the guy is 24-4 so it's nothing to get up in arms about, but it's something to watch.

By the same account - Pop wasn't anything special his first couple years either, but I do think he has gotten much better and is one of the better generals on the bench now(no matter how much I was screaming at him to shut his freaking face last night - he made his point - it worked - you can't blame him for that).

i'll give him his due, but i hate pop. whiny little bitch that he is.

for a defensive team, the spurs cry an awful lot. and they already get away with a ton defensively.

but in the end, this was a real eye-opener (or at least it should have been) for the team.

all the arguments back and forth on here are ridiculous. no one is saying the suns suck or should mail in the season. this is a good team. but it is a young team. they've been lucky to play a sched that's been easy, but beating all those patsies is also not an easy task. the best teams fall to a few here and there. the fact that THESE suns beat the teams they're supposed to is encouraging. however, we cannot deny the fact that the powers the suns are gonna face in the playoffs (minny, san antonio, and kings) have beaten us w/o us beating them in return (granted we've only played each of 'em once, so no chance for retribution yet). that means the evidence is stacked against us. thus far, even if we've competed in the games, we have yet to beat one of our main competitors in the western conference (and i don't include the mavs 'cuz of their injuries, and, let's face it, i don't think anyone places them on the same level of the kings, spurs, and wolves).

the deficiencies a few of us have worried about all season finally nipped us in the butt. rebounding hurt. and defense was apparently lackadaisacal. i only hope that d'antoni understands the delicate balance to making adjustments. you don't want to go away from the recipe that has made you most successful most nights out (a sure way to lose chemistry), but you also can't necessarily stick with got you down 31 points.

i'd really like to see more playing time for all of our bench bigs (lampe, hunter, zarko, sausage king). they desperately need development. even just a 3 minute span here or there with some of the starters (so they needn't carry the load or be relied upon overly much) would do wonders for their development. we're gonna need 'em. might as well start warming them up and creating additional chemistry with the rest of the team.

i am very disappointed in this loss. not in the loss itself - i expected it - but in the blowout.

ah well, new orleans is another game. let's get the W boys.

 

[George O'Brien]

The Wolves lost to the Spurs by 15. At some point we have to simply admit the truth, the Spurs are the better team and almost impossible to beat at home. Hopefully the Suns will find a way to use this game as a learning experience. It's not like the Rockets losing two games to the Bobcats.

In all the angst over this game, no one has mentioned that the Sonics lost to the Sixers 114-107 in Seattle. The Sixers are 13-14 and only 6-8 on the road. The Sonics hit only 24.2% of their three point shots.

The Suns may have had a favorable schedule, but beating weaker teams is not as easy as it sounds. If the Suns only lost games to teams that are better than they are, they would still win 65 games or so.

 

[jibikao]

Yeah, the main goal is to get #1 on the west to have home court advantage.

If Suns can beat all the not-so-elite teams, then they will win 60+ for sure. That should be good enough to get #2 or even #1.

Jimmy

 

[Cheesebeef]

In all the angst over this game, no one has mentioned that the Sonics lost to the Sixers 114-107 in Seattle. The Sixers are 13-14 and only 6-8 on the road. The Sonics hit only 24.2% of their three point shots.

George - no one has mentioned it because I don't think anyone here believes Seattle is a true obstacle for us to overcome - we are THE upper echelon of the up and comers - but we still need to PROVE ourselves worthy against the best (established) teams in the league. We all expect Seattle to fall back to earth (at least I do) - I mean - honestly -d oes anyone see Seattle as a threat?

 

[jibikao]

Speaking about Mavs, they are struggling now because of all the new players they got and that freaking Nelson who still can't figure out what kind of player Dampier is!!!

But I honestly think when Mavs players gel, they should be scary in the end. Right now the PG situation hasn't really been solved but Terry seems like the PG they need for now.

Mavs' record is about the same as Wolves and Kings.. I think. And honestly, Mavs, Wolves and Kings have been quite inconsistent so far.

The only very consistent teams are Spurs and Suns.

Jimmy

 

[jibikao]

George - no one has mentioned it because I don't think anyone here believes Seattle is a true obstacle for us to overcome - we are THE upper echelon of the up and comers - but we still need to PROVE ourselves worthy against the best (established) teams in the league. We all expect Seattle to fall back to earth (at least I do) - I mean - honestly -d oes anyone see Seattle as a threat?

Mmmm, not too sure. Sonics had me convince that they are for real and consistent but after recent 3-6 record, I am not so sure anymore. The teams they lost weren't even all that great... and I think all 3 of them are home games.

Jimmy

 

[jbeecham]

The spurs have lost to some bad teams though.......They lost at Toronto & Memphis early on and then they lost in Houston. Their other losses have come against the Sonics 2x and Orlando once (good, but not a top team). Sure the Suns have only lost to 3 elite teams and the much-improved Cavs, but at least they win their easier games. The Spurs, who some call the best team in the league, can't even claim that.

In those Suns losses, the officiating was either horrible or playoff-like or both. The Suns have been at thier worst when the game is allowed to be physical and the rules aren't enforced. Some teams play better that way (like San Antonio, Detroit and the Lakers of the past few years), but the Suns aren't one of those teams.

 

[George O'Brien]

The spurs have lost to some bad teams though.......They lost at Toronto & Memphis early on and then they lost in Houston. Their other losses have come against the Sonics 2x and Orlando once (good, but not a top team). Sure the Suns have only lost to 3 elite teams and the much-improved Cavs, but at least they win their easier games. The Spurs, who some call the best team in the league, can't even claim that.

In those Suns losses, the officiating was either horrible or playoff-like or both. The Suns have been at thier worst when the game is allowed to be physical and the rules aren't enforced. Some teams play better that way (like San Antonio, Detroit and the Lakers of the past few years), but the Suns aren't one of those teams.

Of the four losses, the ones to the Wolves and Spurs are signficant. The loss to the Cavs came when the Suns finished playing four games in five days with Amare fouling out with over six minutes left. The Kings game was a classic shootout with both teams hitting over 50% of their shots. Usually the Suns win that kind of game, but caught the Kings on a hot night.

The Spurs and Wolves stress physical defense and the refs let them play that way. The Suns need to figure out a way to deal with it, because their usual style is not enough.

 

[elindholm]

The Spurs and Wolves stress physical defense and the refs let them play that way. The Suns need to figure out a way to deal with it, because their usual style is not enough.

Remember also that the Wolves and Spurs are each led by a current or former MVP. The league's biggest stars always get more than their share of the calls, and especially in playoff time, their teammates get to come along for the ride. Stoudemire isn't in that league yet, so the Suns will be facing an uphill battle against either of those teams.

I really don't see any point in complaining about the officials when they allow physical play. That is playoff basketball, and the sooner the Suns adapt to it, the better.

 

[George O'Brien]

The Spurs and Wolves stress physical defense and the refs let them play that way. The Suns need to figure out a way to deal with it, because their usual style is not enough.

Remember also that the Wolves and Spurs are each led by a current or former MVP. The league's biggest stars always get more than their share of the calls, and especially in playoff time, their teammates get to come along for the ride. Stoudemire isn't in that league yet, so the Suns will be facing an uphill battle against either of those teams.

I really don't see any point in complaining about the officials when they allow physical play. That is playoff basketball, and the sooner the Suns adapt to it, the better.

My point exactly.

One of the reasons why Luc Longley was so awful was that the only years he was effective was when he was the beneficiary of the "Jordan Effect". Without Jordan, he was simply another foul prone stiff just like he was when he was with the Wolves.

 

[jibikao]

Maybe Suns should start wacking people... regardless if it's a foul or not. Just to show some toughness inside.

Somebody mentioned that last night the Suns should have smacked Parker down a few times to scare him a little. Sure he gets two foul shots but that's like 100% better than giving him a free layup.

Well, it doesn't help that Amare is in the center and he can't afford to get into foul trouble. Wait, we do have HUNTER!!! He can do the dirty work and provide some toughness!!!

Jimmy

 

[Joe Mama]

The spurs have lost to some bad teams though.......They lost at Toronto & Memphis early on and then they lost in Houston. Their other losses have come against the Sonics 2x and Orlando once (good, but not a top team). Sure the Suns have only lost to 3 elite teams and the much-improved Cavs, but at least they win their easier games. The Spurs, who some call the best team in the league, can't even claim that.

In those Suns losses, the officiating was either horrible or playoff-like or both. The Suns have been at thier worst when the game is allowed to be physical and the rules aren't enforced. Some teams play better that way (like San Antonio, Detroit and the Lakers of the past few years), but the Suns aren't one of those teams.

It's great that the Phoenix Suns are beating the teams they are clearly better than. however I would trade victories against teams like Minnesota and San Antonio for a few losses to crappy teams in a heartbeat. Let's face it. The Phoenix Suns aren't going to be playing Golden State, Chicago cop of the LA Clippers, etc. in the playoffs.

I've been as disappointed as anyone with the officiating in some of the Phoenix Suns big games. I don't remember the Minnesota game being that bad at all. However there were some awful calls in the Sacramento game, it took too long for the officials to bake the correct calls against the sonics for their hands on defense, and we all saw what happened in San Antonio. I was really hoping that the league would try to make a point of enforcing the rules in these games. That said, I do believe David Stern will remind the officials before the playoffs to enforce the rules.

More than anything the Phoenix Suns need to start playing much better defense. They aren't going to win any playoff series if they don't get much better in that area.

Joe Mama