Suns vs Timberwolves - Summer League

[AzStevenCal]

I don't think Warren will suck but I don't think the reason he's gonna do well is because he put up points in summer league. Nobody plays defense in summer league. Summer league is one of those things where as a rookie, its not amazing if you play well in it however it is disastrous if you struggle in it. Only a handful of NBA players who struggled in SL turned out to be good (Bledsoe ironically is one of them).

I like Warren and he's shown a lot of nice moves and composure. Wasn't a big fan when he was selected but he's really grown on me. If he had the chance to get a lot of minutes, I would say that he's the favorite for ROY. But none of that is because of his summer league stats.

Are you watching the Summer League games on your phone, on a cloudy day while wearing shades? They all play defense, you probably have more defensive hustle in summer ball then you do in the regular season. Lack of experience together means they don't play very good team defense but you have a lot of players showcasing themselves for local and overseas employment. They most definitely play defense.

I agree you can't look at scoring or stats in general and come to any hard and fast conclusions as to how they'll do at the next level. But you can watch them play just like you can watch College Basketball and get a pretty good feel for their abilities. It's hard to watch Warren and not be impressed. He may ultimately be no more than a pretty good starter but I have no doubt he'll have an impact. And he's far closer to ready than your average rookie.

Steve

 

[sunsfan88]

Are you watching the Summer League games on your phone, on a cloudy day while wearing shades? They all play defense, you probably have more defensive hustle in summer ball then you do in the regular season. Lack of experience together means they don't play very good team defense but you have a lot of players showcasing themselves for local and overseas employment. They most definitely play defense.

I agree you can't look at scoring or stats in general and come to any hard and fast conclusions as to how they'll do at the next level. But you can watch them play just like you can watch College Basketball and get a pretty good feel for their abilities. It's hard to watch Warren and not be impressed. He may ultimately be no more than a pretty good starter but I have no doubt he'll have an impact. And he's far closer to ready than your average rookie.

Steve

I have been watching the games on my 60 inch HD flat screen, not sure how that matters but ok.

They don't play much defense. Everyone knows that. They hustle for rebounds and such but hardly any defense is played in summer league. Everyone who watches summer league should know this.

And of course Warren is impressive. I think he will compete for a starting SF position and that's not easy to do on a 50 win team.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I have been watching the games on my 60 inch HD flat screen, not sure how that matters but ok.

They don't play much defense. Everyone knows that. They hustle for rebounds and such but hardly any defense is played in summer league. Everyone who watches summer league should know this.

And of course Warren is impressive. I think he will compete for a starting SF position and that's not easy to do on a 50 win team.

No, everyone doesn't "know" that. Quite the opposite. The announcers have commented many times on the defense being played and the reason for it. Their lives depend on it. This isn't an all star game and this isn't even the summer league of 5 years ago. This is pretty competitive and futures are on the line. Like I said, the team defense isn't anything special but a large part of defense is effort and the effort is clearly there.

Steve

 

[Suns_fan69]

I think a more accurate statement is that while the defensive intensity is present in the Summer League, the superior talent and advanced defensive schemes generally makes it hard to compare to the big show.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I think a more accurate statement is that while the defensive intensity is present in the Summer League, the superior talent and advanced defensive schemes generally makes it hard to compare to the big show.

And I don't disagree with this statement. I just disagreed with the "nobody plays defense in the summer league". I actually think the defense is even more effective than people realize because even though there aren't complicated defensive schemes, the same is true on the offensive end. There is a lot of one on one and the individual defensive effort is pretty high. A few teams such as Chicago have managed to play good team defense in addition to the individual effort.

I don't know about the rest of you but I see people blocking out, switching, communicating, fighting through picks, harassing the ball handler, bodying up down low and protecting the rim. I didn't see this kind of play even 5 years ago. It's pretty much all man to man but it's still defense.

Steve

 

[sunsfan88]

This article perfectly explains the defense that's played in summer league

http://m.rollingstone.com/culture/news/air-raid-everyone-dunks-during-nba-summer-league-20140717

 

[AzStevenCal]

This article perfectly explains the defense that's played in summer league

http://m.rollingstone.com/culture/news/air-raid-everyone-dunks-during-nba-summer-league-20140717

Yes, team defense is bad. For most teams. Watch Chicago. Tell me they're not playing decent team defense. And watch the individual players, which is the point of our discussion. They are playing defense.

The offensive player has a huge advantage in one on one, that's why team defense is so important. But that doesn't mean the players themselves are not playing defense. Warren is having to score against defense. He isn't breaking the defense down and then taking advantage of the lack of rotations to drive to the hoop and score. Which is basically our point of contention here. You are trying to invalidate his scoring success in summer league by saying he's not being guarded.

Steve

 

[sunsfan88]

Yes, team defense is bad. For most teams. Watch Chicago. Tell me they're not playing decent team defense. And watch the individual players, which is the point of our discussion. They are playing defense.

The offensive player has a huge advantage in one on one, that's why team defense is so important. But that doesn't mean the players themselves are not playing defense. Warren is having to score against defense. He isn't breaking the defense down and then taking advantage of the lack of rotations to drive to the hoop and score. Which is basically our point of contention here. You are trying to invalidate his scoring success in summer league by saying he's not being guarded.

Steve

This isn't about Warren anymore. I said I wouldn't say he's gonna do major work because of the points he put up in SL. I already said that I am impressed by Warren and I even said he could be ROY if he got playing time.

This is about defense. There is very little of it. Its all fast break, fast break, fast break. People going for steals and blocks.

If you have ever seen an NBA game, I don't see how you can remotely think that the defense is D league counts as defense in comparison to the NBA.

 

[AzStevenCal]

This isn't about Warren anymore. I said I wouldn't say he's gonna do major work because of the points he put up in SL. I already said that I am impressed by Warren and I even said he could be ROY if he got playing time.

This is about defense. There is very little of it. Its all fast break, fast break, fast break. People going for steals and blocks.

If you have ever seen an NBA game, I don't see how you can remotely think that the defense is D league counts as defense in comparison to the NBA.

I've never said it was comparable to the defense played in the NBA. But nothing but fast breaks? I must be on the wrong channel.

Steve

 

[Arizona's Finest]

This article perfectly explains the defense that's played in summer league

http://m.rollingstone.com/culture/news/air-raid-everyone-dunks-during-nba-summer-league-20140717

your overstating how good regular season NBA defense day in day out is. Warren will get his.

 

[sunsfan88]

I've never said it was comparable to the defense played in the NBA. But nothing but fast breaks? I must be on the wrong channel.

Steve

My bad I should have been more clear in my original post, I thought it was obvious; There is hardly any defense being played in summer league in comparison to actual defense played in NBA regular season games.

 

[JCSunsfan]

In Hornacek's interview, he said what they were most impressed about with TJ in his workouts was his defense.

If he can score like this and play D, he is a solid starter. If he could rebound at 9 a game he would be all-nba.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

My bad I should have been more clear in my original post, I thought it was obvious; There is hardly any defense being played in summer league in comparison to actual defense played in NBA regular season games.

LOL

all perspective. maybe 7 teams are playing defense during regular season max. Even if he "cant handle" that defense hes gonna go off on the 25 other teams. Thats how the NBA works.

This is really just filler argument. Hey its Summer League lets see how it goes.

Ill save you the time. Guy will be starting by end of year and probably is going to avg 20+ at least 2-3 seasons in his career.

Lets talk about the potential of Len, Goodwin, Ennis. This guy just "is"

 

[CardsFan88]

Warren looks like a stud who was bypassed because others had better 'talent'. This guy plays with a stature and composure that is very rare for a rookie. He can shoot and make all sorts of shots, almost like a Rex Chapman.

For how hard he plays, he plays very much in control. If his NBA defense is as good as they are saying, he is absolutely going to be one of the, if not the steal of the draft.

I agree with AF above, this guy is probably going to be starting by years end and is going to score a lot of points in this league. Absolutely love his game, and it's going to be really tough for Hornacek to take this guy out of the game.

What's really weird is you know whose game he reminds me of? Lebron James. A poor man's version for sure, and not as athletically gifted, but he actually reminds me of him in certain ways.

The way he can handle the ball and get to rim. The ability to create his own shot and have the ability to will it in. The way he plays slower and steadier then he has the athleticism for in order to be in control, but the speed and strength is still sufficient to do everything he needs to do right now. Give him a couple years in the weight room and this guy is going to be even more of a force, and his frame sure looks like he could easily add 20-30 lbs of muscle.

I think he is showing us that he is our best pick since Marion/Amare. That's something to be excited for imo.

 

[Superbone]

BTW, summer Suns are playing Dallas right now (started at 1:00 pm). It's not being shown live but it will be shown tonight at 10:30 pm AZ/PT on NBATV.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Watching on my computer. It was well worth the 4.99. I can watching this, and go back and watch all the previous games.

 

[slinslin]

Tyler Ennis does not impress me AT ALL.

He can't shoot and he can't finish around the rim.

 

[Mainstreet]

Tyler Ennis does not impress me AT ALL.

He can't shoot and he can't finish around the rim.

This concerns me as well. McDonough had to know about Marshall.

 

[Mainstreet]

Watching on my computer. It was well worth the 4.99. I can watching this, and go back and watch all the previous games.

I am happy with my free feed.

 

[Mainstreet]

Alec Brown is reportedly out with a dislocated left shoulder.

 

[sunsfan88]

Watching on my computer. It was well worth the 4.99. I can watching this, and go back and watch all the previous games.

Really? The game seems like a mess so far. Mavs on a 16-0 run.

 

[slinslin]

this is the ugliest basketball I have ever witnessed

 

[Mainstreet]

Could the Suns look any worse? This is bad even by summer league standards.

 

[Mainstreet]

Wow. Announcers having to make excuses for the Suns.

 

[BC867]

Could the Suns look any worse? This is bad even by summer league standards.

I am curious if the small ball philosophy-from-above is prevalent and is rearing its ugly head.

Maybe it will be abandoned by the end of summer league.

I can dream, can't I?