Suns @ Warriors Friday game thread 12-3-2021

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Yeah... Wiggins was at least a 24 ppg scorer at one point. Ayton hasn’t even sniffed any kind of production like that.

Reality is they’ve both gotten shade because both of them have a lot of “looks like Tarzan, Plays Like Jane” to their game. Both have the tools to dominate but not the killer instinct to do so.

23.6 PPG on poor efficiency with poor defense. Ayton is definitely overall a more impactful player than Wiggins has ever been.

 

[Vacard]

Wiggins will always be a bust

 

[Phrazbit]

So let’s say everything happened that has happened but we had Kat instead of Ayton. Does Kat take over this game?

If everything was equal and KAT was on our roster and Ayton was not then we would have started McGee tonight because KAT is injured at the moment... as he often is.

I can tell you this much... if we had KAT instead of Ayton we almost certainly would have lost on Tuesday. Ayton's defense on Golden State's repeated screens was huge.

I also don't think KAT exactly has the reputation of "taking over" in big games.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Wiggins will always be a bust

Not for the warriors. He is scoring 18ppg this season on the top team in the nba.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

If everything was equal and KAT was on our roster and Ayton was not then we would have started McGee tonight because KAT is injured at the moment... as he often is.

I can tell you this much... if we had KAT instead of Ayton we almost certainly would have lost on Tuesday. Ayton's defense on Golden State's repeated screens was huge.

I also don't think KAT exactly has the reputation of "taking over" in big games.

He hasn’t played in any big games. Same as Booker before last season.

 

[Phrazbit]

He hasn’t played in any big games. Same as Booker before last season.

Couple things...

One: he did make the playoffs a couple years ago, he stunk, averaged 15 a game on terrible shooting.

Two: throughout Booker's career we have heard how intense he is, how other players talk about him as being a ruthless competitor. We have never heard those things about Towns, infact, quite the opposite. His competitiveness has been a constant questionmark and the best player he ever played with (Jimmy Butler) forced his way off the team because he could not stand playing with Towns, openly railed on him as being a "beta", to put it nicely.

 

[Vacard]

Couple things...

One: he did make the playoffs a couple years ago, he stunk, averaged 15 a game on terrible shooting.

Two: throughout Booker's career we have heard how intense he is, how other players talk about him as being a ruthless competitor. We have never heard those things about Towns, infact, quite the opposite. His competitiveness has been a constant questionmark and the best player he ever played with (Jimmy Butler) forced his way off the team because he could not stand playing with Towns, openly railed on him as being a "beta", to put it nicely.

KAT wouldn’t be the first option on the Suns like his is with the Wolves.

 

[Phrazbit]

KAT wouldn’t be the first option on the Suns like his is with the Wolves.

Given that my biggest issues with KAT are his competitiveness and durability... the fact that he would be a lesser option on the Suns doesn't do much for me. Ayton is already a 3rd option on O and is better than Towns at pretty much everything but outside shooting.

Ayton has some obvious flaws, if he was even half as willing as a player like Amare to attack the rim, he would be a monster. But I think the Towns love on this board is a lot of "grass is greener" syndrome. When I look at the strengths and weaknesses of this roster... I think swapping Ayton for KAT, even straight up, would be a disaster.

Most of Ayton's criticism comes from his inconsistency and "soft" play. Both are legit critiques. I would ask those that regularly level those critiques go and watch a few weeks of Timberwolf games. Towns is a roller coaster. The only consistent in his play is that he will probably avoid any challenging defensive situation. He vanishes on the glass, he ignores defense. Even on offense, he often devolves into nothing more than a distance chucker.

 

[PhoenixRisingITA]

It was nice to see Amare in action. Nostalgia.

 

[Finito]

He hasn’t played in any big games. Same as Booker before last season.

He had one of the most spectacular flame outs in NBA history when he made the playoffs in 2018

Game 1: 8 points on 33%
Game 2: 5 points on 22% and was benched

Lol I couldn’t even imagine if Ayton had a playoff game like this. Ayton has showed he’s the guy from the playoffs he’s been great this year. People have no clue what they are watching. He ranks out at the best 1 on 1 defender at his position and he ranks #1 against guards at his position. He’s legit elite on the defensive end while getting 16 a game on 60% shooting.

 

[Mainstreet]

Well that was disappointing. First though, gotta say - Chase Center is STUNNING! Wow! What an arena! They really did an amazing job with that arena!

The Suns looked tired and out of it from the opening tip.
It’s clear to me that all things being equal, the Warriors are the better team. We just don’t have enough depth. Cam Payne should never be playing 26 mins in a game. But, if not him, who? He and Cam Johnson sucked tonight. But so did CP3. And Bridges. And McGee. Just flat and ugly.
So the Warriors will get Klay and Wiseman back. And we’ll get Book back. But again, all things being equal, is getting Book back will be a big help, but not enough IMO to overcome what the Warriors bring to the party…

The Suns were down Booker, Kaminsky, Nader and Saric. We won't know who the best team is until the playoffs. The Warriors were better last night. That's all we know.

Let's see what each team looks like after the trade deadline and buyouts to have a better idea.

The Suns weren't supposed to get by the Lakers or anyone else in the playoffs last season.

 

[Mainstreet]

This was leftover from yesterday about Bridge's pinkie finger. Imaging showed no fracture.

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[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Couple things...

One: he did make the playoffs a couple years ago, he stunk, averaged 15 a game on terrible shooting.

Two: throughout Booker's career we have heard how intense he is, how other players talk about him as being a ruthless competitor. We have never heard those things about Towns, infact, quite the opposite. His competitiveness has been a constant questionmark and the best player he ever played with (Jimmy Butler) forced his way off the team because he could not stand playing with Towns, openly railed on him as being a "beta", to put it nicely.

Fair. But players grow. I don’t think KAT is the same player he was.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Given that my biggest issues with KAT are his competitiveness and durability... the fact that he would be a lesser option on the Suns doesn't do much for me. Ayton is already a 3rd option on O and is better than Towns at pretty much everything but outside shooting.

Ayton has some obvious flaws, if he was even half as willing as a player like Amare to attack the rim, he would be a monster. But I think the Towns love on this board is a lot of "grass is greener" syndrome. When I look at the strengths and weaknesses of this roster... I think swapping Ayton for KAT, even straight up, would be a disaster.

Most of Ayton's criticism comes from his inconsistency and "soft" play. Both are legit critiques. I would ask those that regularly level those critiques go and watch a few weeks of Timberwolf games. Towns is a roller coaster. The only consistent in his play is that he will probably avoid any challenging defensive situation. He vanishes on the glass, he ignores defense. Even on offense, he often devolves into nothing more than a distance chucker.

To be fair KAT is vastly superior to Ayton in three categories: outside shooting, driving to the basket and passing.

 

[Cheesebeef]

The Suns were down Booker, Kaminsky, Nader and Saric. We won't know who the best team is until the playoffs. The Warriors were better last night. That's all we know.

Let's see what each team looks like after the trade deadline and buyouts to have a better idea.

The Suns weren't supposed to get by the Lakers or anyone else in the playoffs last season.

You have to stop including Saric in the equation for who the Suns are missing this season as if they’re going to get him back. He tore his ACL in the Finals which happened in JULY. We’d be facing the Warriors in May if we matched up in the WCF. In the absolute BEST case scenario he MIGHT just be getting back on the court by the Finals and looking like a shell of himself when he does as all players do when they initially return from ACL injuries. He ain’t coming back this season so he’s not a factor as to us possibly getting better.

Also, Nader is trash.

 

[Mainstreet]

Dude, you have to stop including Saric in the equation for who the Suns are missing this season as if they’re going to get him back. He tore his ACL in the Finals which happened in JULY. He ain’t coming back this season so he’s not a factor as to us possibly getting better.

Also, Nader is trash.

I like to look at the team as a whole. Injured players hold roster spots and they can be used in trade.

For the sake of clarity, I'm not arguing Saric will be back this season, but he hasn't been ruled out for the playoffs either.

I think Nader is a solid role player but he has been dealing with knee issues. I don't buy the "trash" argument but rather he is injured and has tried to play through it.

 

[GatorAZ]

To be fair KAT is vastly superior to Ayton in three categories: outside shooting, driving to the basket and passing.

His ball handling as a big man also bring a different element. He can control the half court or go coast to coast and finish. I think it’s pointless to go back n’ forth though because Towns is untouchable and Minnesota is an up and coming team. DA is fine in his role here but he’s be just another guy on that team.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I like to look at the team as a whole. Injured players hold roster spots and they can be used in trade.

For the sake of clarity, I'm not arguing Saric will be back this season, but he hasn't been ruled out for the playoffs either.

I think Nader is a solid role player but he has been dealing with knee issues. I don't buy the "trash" argument but rather he is injured and has tried to play through it.

For the sake of reality, Saric ain’t gonna be back or healthy enough to actually contribute in any way shape or form by the playoffs either. Saying he will or even might ignores the entire history and recovery of an ACL tear that late in a season.

I’ll never understand how people who watch as much sports as we all do can fool themselves into believing completely unbelievable things that never happen to justify their opinions.

All that said, I also think it’s foolish to say the Warriors are better than us snd we can’t beat them in the playoffs at this point.

 

[Mainstreet]

For the sake of reality, Saric ain’t gonna be back or healthy enough to actually contribute in any way shape or form by the playoffs either. Saying he will or even might ignores the entire history and recovery of an ACL tear that late in a season.

I’ll never understand how people who watch as much sports as we all do can fool themselves into believing completely unbelievable things that never happen to justify their opinions.

All that said, I also think it’s foolish to say the Warriors are better than us snd we can’t beat them in the playoffs at this point.

If you want to make this discussion about Saric go for it but I'm not making a stand on that hill.

I said Saric has not been excluded from the playoffs which is a fact no matter how unlikely it may seem to you.

 

[TJ]

Given that my biggest issues with KAT are his competitiveness and durability... the fact that he would be a lesser option on the Suns doesn't do much for me. Ayton is already a 3rd option on O and is better than Towns at pretty much everything but outside shooting.

Ayton has some obvious flaws, if he was even half as willing as a player like Amare to attack the rim, he would be a monster. But I think the Towns love on this board is a lot of "grass is greener" syndrome. When I look at the strengths and weaknesses of this roster... I think swapping Ayton for KAT, even straight up, would be a disaster.

Most of Ayton's criticism comes from his inconsistency and "soft" play. Both are legit critiques. I would ask those that regularly level those critiques go and watch a few weeks of Timberwolf games. Towns is a roller coaster. The only consistent in his play is that he will probably avoid any challenging defensive situation. He vanishes on the glass, he ignores defense. Even on offense, he often devolves into nothing more than a distance chucker.

Ayton has no major weaknesses in his game. KAT is arguably the worst rim protector in the NBA. The offensive production we’d get for swapping DA and KAT would be nominal at best, especially considering that KAT’s points would come at the expense of others and not in addition to. He’s a complete mismatch for what this team needs.

This trade proposal needs the Ole Yeller treatment.

 

[TJ]

BTW - Ayton is starting to evolve into a 20/11 guy even as a third option. He’s closer to being an all-NBA guy than he is an expendable bargaining chip.

Here’s the comprehensive list of players I’d consider in a DA trade:

Jokic
Embiid

Those are the only guys I think would be a significant upgrade over DA, considering that the proposed KAT trade would involve picks and another player

 

[Cheesebeef]

If you want to make this discussion about Saric go for it but I'm not making a stand on that hill.

I said Saric has not been excluded from the playoffs which is a fact no matter how unlikely it may seem to you.

Uh... I didn’t bring Saric up. YOU keep making the convo about Saric by continually bringing him up as some kind of factor who will be a white knight riding to the Suns rescue to help them with their depth.

But okay... you just keep ignoring the entirety of history of the ACL tear and recovery time in sports and I’ll keep saying how meaningless it is to include Saric into the equation of how the Suns can still get better this season.

 

[Mainstreet]

Uh... I didn’t bring Saric up. YOU keep making the convo about Saric by continually bringing him up as some kind of factor who will be a white knight riding to the Suns rescue to help them with their depth.

But okay... you just keep ignoring the entirety of history of the ACL tear and recovery time in sports and I’ll keep saying how meaningless it is to include Saric into the equation of how the Suns can still get better this season.

NO I DON'T.

I like being thorough that's all.

 

[Dr. Jones]

I love seeing Ayton now visibly upset when he misses shots or fails to complete and-1's. It's quite a nice turn he is making if he keeps this attitude rolling after CP3 hangs it up.

And I'm good with our performance last night. I love watching this team when ball movement is crisp and shots are falling. Watching Book go down last time and then Mikal walking off upset is about all the bad mojo I can take.

We need to be smart this year. Keep CP3's minutes down and the team well rested for when it matters. I truly don't fear any road crowd except the Warriors and even that place is muted now that they are out of Oracle.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

His ball handling as a big man also bring a different element. He can control the half court or go coast to coast and finish. I think it’s pointless to go back n’ forth though because Towns is untouchable and Minnesota is an up and coming team. DA is fine in his role here but he’s be just another guy on that team.

I’d agree overall with this.