Suns @ Wizards Saturday game thread 2-5-2022

[AzStevenCal]

Last time I went to Phoenix @ Washington game, we lost in two OTs. This trip was much more pleasant! Well, the first three quarters, anyway. Fourth quarter really showed that the Suns need an extra point guard.

I was sitting relatively close to the Suns bench, and it was really interesting to watch the bench. CP3 is coaching the entire time. He never stops talking to other guys, pointing to certain spots on the court, and explaining things. Bridges, Ayton, and Johnson are having fun the entire time. They talk, laugh, cheer- it was really nice to see. It's one of those things you don't get to see on TV. Booker must have signed a dozen jerseys/ shirts for little kids, which was also really nice to see.

Another great thing was seeing so many Suns fans. I swear that there was at least one Suns jersey/ shirt for every two Washington ones.

Not gonna lie, seeing them in person made me really wish I lived closer so I can see them more often.

Great game, but that fourth quarter was unacceptable. Jones has got to get another point/ combo guard that's better than Payton.

I don't say this as a defense of Payton (that's impossible) but when you have an insurmountable lead going into the 4th quarter it's tough to expect the bench to play up to their level. Especially with Payne out. Payton has been a big disappointment but none of that group could make an open shot and that wasn't all on Elfrid.

 

[Mainstreet]

I don't say this as a defense of Payton (that's impossible) but when you have an insurmountable lead going into the 4th quarter it's tough to expect the bench to play up to their level. Especially with Payne out. Payton has been a big disappointment but none of that group could make an open shot and that wasn't all on Elfrid.

I appreciate you not putting the blame on one player.

While some what you say is true, the Suns offense relies upon a point guard to initiate the offense. I wish they weren't so reliant upon it but they are. My hope was the .5 offense would carry more of the load.

Payton was 1-6 from the field, 0-2 for free throws, 2 rebounds, 0 assists and 3 turnovers in 21 minutes. Even a third string point guard has to produce more.

It's not only that but for some reason it seems he can't adequately run the offense and doesn't play defense anymore either.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I appreciate you not putting the blame on one player.

While some what you say is true, the Suns offense relies upon a point guard to initiate the offense. I wish they weren't so reliant upon it but they are. My hope was the .5 offense would carry more of the load.

Payton was 1-6 from the field, 0-2 for free throws, 2 rebounds, 0 assists and 3 turnovers in 21 minutes. Even a third string point guard has to produce more.

It's not only that but for some reason it seems he can't adequately run the offense and doesn't play defense anymore either.

I agree and last night wasn't even his worst game here but he's had decent games that have gone unnoticed here. And I disagree about his defense, it's not great but all told he's around middle of the pack for this team.

People tend to focus on his mistakes and ignore everything else. Last night he was horrible, the two games before that he played 23:27 minutes and all told he only scored 3 points but he shot 1 for 2, had 11 assists, 4 rebounds, 4 turnovers, 1 steal and 1 block. I'm not saying that's a great line but the talk was the same about him as it is every night, hyper-negative.

 

[Mainstreet]

I agree and last night wasn't even his worst game here but he's had decent games that have gone unnoticed here. And I disagree about his defense, it's not great but all told he's around middle of the pack for this team.

People tend to focus on his mistakes and ignore everything else. Last night he was horrible, the two games before that he played 23:27 minutes and all told he only scored 3 points but he shot 1 for 2, had 11 assists, 4 rebounds, 4 turnovers, 1 steal and 1 block. I'm not saying that's a great line but the talk was the same about him as it is every night, hyper-negative.

I thought I was Payton's last advocate but I gave up on that awhile back. Last night was the final straw for me.

If James Jones doesn't add another ball handler/distributor he is playing with fire in the Suns championship window.

The Suns could use another forward but guard this is their biggest need.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I thought I was Payton's last advocate but I gave up on that awhile back. Last night was the final straw for me.

If James Jones doesn't add another ball handler/distributor he is playing with fire in the Suns championship window.

The Suns could use another forward but guard this is their biggest need.

Oh I'm certainly not a Payton advocate, I also think we need better than him but probably not in the same way you and many others do.

There are plenty of 3rd string guards that are worse or at least no better than Elfrid. But given our goals and considering the health history of CP3, Payne and to a lesser extent Booker, I think we need a true rotation player that plays with speed and quickness. A 3rd string guard isn't usually a rotation player and Elfrid would be fine on a roster where the 3rd PG only plays a few minutes every now and then. We need better, someone that's at least in Payne's class when he's healthy.

 

[Mainstreet]

Oh I'm certainly not a Payton advocate, I also think we need better than him but probably not in the same way you and many others do.

There are plenty of 3rd string guards that are worse or at least no better than Elfrid. But given our goals and considering the health history of CP3, Payne and to a lesser extent Booker, I think we need a true rotation player that plays with speed and quickness. A 3rd string guard isn't usually a rotation player and Elfrid would be fine on a roster where the 3rd PG only plays a few minutes every now and then. We need better, someone that's at least in Payne's class when he's healthy.

I'm inclined to look towards adding depth with players that can contribute in the rotation if necessary as I'm not sure the Suns will swing for the fences, I'm always looking for minimum type fixes James Jones might approve, examples: Cam Payne, Torrey Craig and Bismack Biyombo.

I'm fine with an Eric Gordon type move but I could also be content with adding a player like Corey Joseph/ Dennis Schroder/ Raul Neto/ Brad Wanamaker at point guard and a player like Torrey Craig/ Justin Holiday at forward.

If the Suns want to shoot higher I'm all for it.

In the beginning of the season I thought Payton would be fine as a third point guard knowing he could run the offense, distribute, drive and make layups. I don't see that player anymore. IMO, they need to minimally tweak the roster at guard.

 

[95pro]

Payton looks less interested in putting in effort out on the court lately. Not hustling or attempting to play hard like some 8-15 guys do when they get their minutes.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Oh I'm certainly not a Payton advocate, I also think we need better than him but probably not in the same way you and many others do.

There are plenty of 3rd string guards that are worse or at least no better than Elfrid. But given our goals and considering the health history of CP3, Payne and to a lesser extent Booker, I think we need a true rotation player that plays with speed and quickness. A 3rd string guard isn't usually a rotation player and Elfrid would be fine on a roster where the 3rd PG only plays a few minutes every now and then. We need better, someone that's at least in Payne's class when he's healthy.

Man, I’m not sure that’s true. He looks like he’s gotten considerably worse than when he played for us last. The part that’s most confusing is his complete inability to pass. If his pass isn’t an actual turnover it’s usually off target enough to either make the recipient have to move their feet to catch it or bend over to grab it. He never delivers the ball wear a player can make an immediate play. He is absolutely the worst guard I can remember playing in a loooong time.

 

[Phrazbit]

Man, I’m not sure that’s true. He looks like he’s gotten considerably worse than when he played for us last. The part that’s most confusing is his complete inability to pass. If his pass isn’t an actual turnover it’s usually off target enough to either make the recipient have to move their feet to catch it or bend over to grab it. He never delivers the ball wear a player can make an immediate play. He is absolutely the worst guard I can remember playing in a loooong time.

Yeah, we had a 3 on 1 the other night that he waited way too long to give the ball up and when he did he threw it a stride behind the intended man... we still manged to score but it went from being a open court slam to (I believe) Crowder having to finish a contested lay up through contact.

I've said it a few times, it's like he knows what to do but he is a beat or two behind the action of the game. Everything is late, shots, passes, rotations.

I don't think he is much different than his last time here though, the team as a whole was terrible so he stood out less and we seemingly had no "system" so his chaotic play also seemed to fit right in. I know I couldn't stand him then either.