That’s Why You Fire Kliff

kerouac9

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When I do "Why Kyler sucked vs the Seahawks Part II" later in the week and yet again it shows multiple guys open while Kyler contemplates the best place to snipe from in Seatown, everyone will again go "Oh so it's not Kliff, it's Kyler" like they did the first time.

Then immediately go back to shouting "Fire Kliff" after the next game. Everyone knows Kyler sucks right? Does everyone think Kyler will stop sucking if Kliff is gone?
I know you're taking heat here — I'm pretty sure I agree with you that, in a vacuum, Kliff's offense and playcalling is probably fine. Not, like, elite, but good enough to be an average to above-average offense in the NFL with the right supporting personnel.

But — and a lot of people are saying this and it's not breaking through or getting drowned out or you're rolling over it — Kliff's main job as a head coach is not to call good plays. He can't throw his hands in the air and say Kyler needs to do better (even behind closed doors).

I made this point multiple times over the winter and spring, but my POV is that a great head coach is worth more than a good quarterback. I don't think that Kliff is a great head coach now and I don't really think he's going to develop into one. So if Kliff ends up topping out at an okay head coach, you have to get rid of him and hope to find someone who can handle Kyler better.

I also don't really understand why people are so mad at Kilff. It's not really his fault he's the head coach; all he did was accept a pretty sweet job offer. Blame Keim for having the galaxy-brained idea that Kliff would be so successful as a playcaller he'd be poached immediately for a head coaching role.
 

DaHilg

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I know you're taking heat here — I'm pretty sure I agree with you that, in a vacuum, Kliff's offense and playcalling is probably fine. Not, like, elite, but good enough to be an average to above-average offense in the NFL with the right supporting personnel.

But — and a lot of people are saying this and it's not breaking through or getting drowned out or you're rolling over it — Kliff's main job as a head coach is not to call good plays. He can't throw his hands in the air and say Kyler needs to do better (even behind closed doors).

I made this point multiple times over the winter and spring, but my POV is that a great head coach is worth more than a good quarterback. I don't think that Kliff is a great head coach now and I don't really think he's going to develop into one. So if Kliff ends up topping out at an okay head coach, you have to get rid of him and hope to find someone who can handle Kyler better.

I also don't really understand why people are so mad at Kilff. It's not really his fault he's the head coach; all he did was accept a pretty sweet job offer. Blame Keim for having the galaxy-brained idea that Kliff would be so successful as a playcaller he'd be poached immediately for a head coaching role.
3 things on this…

1 - you do realize Kliffy was hired as an offensive genius and to call the plays right ?

2 - you do realize Bidwill was the one who advocated for the hire not Kiem

3 - Why are people mad? Because he is awful at all phases of his job. Fans can’t get mad at a player, coach or whomever for being bad at their job? We should just be happy and say awww it’s not Kliffys fault he’s bad as his job he accepted a great offer! Laughable bro
 

Krangodnzr

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I know you're taking heat here — I'm pretty sure I agree with you that, in a vacuum, Kliff's offense and playcalling is probably fine. Not, like, elite, but good enough to be an average to above-average offense in the NFL with the right supporting personnel.

But — and a lot of people are saying this and it's not breaking through or getting drowned out or you're rolling over it — Kliff's main job as a head coach is not to call good plays. He can't throw his hands in the air and say Kyler needs to do better (even behind closed doors).

I made this point multiple times over the winter and spring, but my POV is that a great head coach is worth more than a good quarterback. I don't think that Kliff is a great head coach now and I don't really think he's going to develop into one. So if Kliff ends up topping out at an okay head coach, you have to get rid of him and hope to find someone who can handle Kyler better.

I also don't really understand why people are so mad at Kilff. It's not really his fault he's the head coach; all he did was accept a pretty sweet job offer. Blame Keim for having the galaxy-brained idea that Kliff would be so successful as a playcaller he'd be poached immediately for a head coaching role.
100.
 

kerouac9

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3 things on this…

1 - you do realize Kliffy was hired as an offensive genius and to call the plays right ?

2 - you do realize Bidwill was the one who advocated for the hire not Kiem

3 - Why are people mad? Because he is awful at all phases of his job. Fans can’t get mad at a player, coach or whomever for being bad at their job? We should just be happy and say awww it’s not Kliffys fault he’s bad as his job he accepted a great offer! Laughable bro
1) OK. As is visible on film literally every week, Kliff's plays are successfully getting people open. I dunno about "offensive genius" stuff. He certainly didn't say that, although I agree that his reputation was that he was an exceptionally creative a productive playcaller.

2) I didn't until Mao just mentioned that. I have no reason to disbelieve him.

3) Be mad, but I don't understanding being mad AT KLIFF. People can be mad or whatever; it's really none of my business. But I don't understand why they're mad. Kliff's bad at his job, but Kliff didn't hire himself. Be mad at the person who hired him. Direct your anger at the right place: Keim and Michael.

I agree that Kliff needs to go. I've been saying it for more than a minute. But a lot of folks have the reasons wrong.
 

Arealist

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Can someone answer me why BritCard is the only person in existence to come to realization that Kingsbury isn’t also a huge problem?
That outstanding coaching has us with 3 wins!

Kliff sucks at every aspect of his job. How can you possibly defend his clock management?????
 

BritCard

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I know you're taking heat here — I'm pretty sure I agree with you that, in a vacuum, Kliff's offense and playcalling is probably fine. Not, like, elite, but good enough to be an average to above-average offense in the NFL with the right supporting personnel.

But — and a lot of people are saying this and it's not breaking through or getting drowned out or you're rolling over it — Kliff's main job as a head coach is not to call good plays. He can't throw his hands in the air and say Kyler needs to do better (even behind closed doors).

I made this point multiple times over the winter and spring, but my POV is that a great head coach is worth more than a good quarterback. I don't think that Kliff is a great head coach now and I don't really think he's going to develop into one. So if Kliff ends up topping out at an okay head coach, you have to get rid of him and hope to find someone who can handle Kyler better.

I also don't really understand why people are so mad at Kilff. It's not really his fault he's the head coach; all he did was accept a pretty sweet job offer. Blame Keim for having the galaxy-brained idea that Kliff would be so successful as a playcaller he'd be poached immediately for a head coaching role.

I really couldn't care about Kliff. I've wrote at length in the past about his weaknesses both in scheme and as a man manager. At the same time, and to be fair to the man, he works extremely hard, he's got better every year until this year and he is statistically the 4th best Cardinals HC since the merger.

But no, he's not great, and really I couldn't care less if they fired him. But it has to achieve something and I just don't see what. It feels purely reactionary.

It may well be they have to fire him just so they can move on and tell the players it was Kliff's fault as some kind of psychological salve for next season. "Everything's good now guys. Kliff has gone and everything will be better!". Until they hit the field.

The main issue is that if you move on you have to get someone better and this simply is not an attractive organisation and Kyler with his 6 YPA, study clauses and Twitter memes is not an attractive quarterback at the moment.

So if Kliff goes Keim goes. They are tied (or should be) at the hip. And I'd be fine with that if we brought in some great guy from outside the Org that would change the culture and attract a great coaching talent he has worked with. But we all know that won't happen.

It's going to be A-Dub with Mike pulling the strings. Steve Keim 2.0. The same culture and no connections outside the Org to source talent from. They will make Vance Joseph the HC and Spenser Whipple the OC and it will be terrible. Or they will run through some retreads that get fired at the end of this year.

And then what? I'm to expect Kyler who's been given everything possible by Kingsbury to succeed including a simplified college type scheme and verbiage and reduced responsibility (he isn't calling protections) and who doesn't have to sneak and can avoid all hits, I'm to expect him to suddenly get better having to learn a whole new scheme and play a whole new way?

So it's not that I give a crap about Kliff. It's simply that I think the alternative is worse. And that is on Keim and Mike for paying an unproven QB after year 3 that can only play a very specific type of football which further restricts your coaching options.

I would bet all my money that if kliff is fired they go with Vance ("He was interviewed for the Dolphins so other teams see him as a HC" they will say) and Whipple so that they can keep the same offense or a version of it because they know they can't change it.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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I know you're taking heat here — I'm pretty sure I agree with you that, in a vacuum, Kliff's offense and playcalling is probably fine. Not, like, elite, but good enough to be an average to above-average offense in the NFL with the right supporting personnel.

But — and a lot of people are saying this and it's not breaking through or getting drowned out or you're rolling over it — Kliff's main job as a head coach is not to call good plays. He can't throw his hands in the air and say Kyler needs to do better (even behind closed doors).

I made this point multiple times over the winter and spring, but my POV is that a great head coach is worth more than a good quarterback. I don't think that Kliff is a great head coach now and I don't really think he's going to develop into one. So if Kliff ends up topping out at an okay head coach, you have to get rid of him and hope to find someone who can handle Kyler better.

I also don't really understand why people are so mad at Kilff. It's not really his fault he's the head coach; all he did was accept a pretty sweet job offer. Blame Keim for having the galaxy-brained idea that Kliff would be so successful as a playcaller he'd be poached immediately for a head coaching role.
I mean we really can’t be mad anyone other than the nfl for allowing bidwill to own the team who hired keim who chose the players and kliff by your logic.
 

kerouac9

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And then what? I'm to expect Kyler who's been given everything possible by Kingsbury to succeed including a simplified college type scheme and verbiage and reduced responsibility (he isn't calling protections) and who doesn't have to sneak and can avoid all hits, I'm to expect him to suddenly get better having to learn a whole new scheme and play a whole new way?

So it's not that I give a crap about Kliff. It's simply that I think the alternative is worse. And that is on Keim and Mike for paying an unproven QB after year 3 that can only play a very specific type of football which further restricts your coaching options.

I would bet all my money that if kliff is fired they go with Vance ("He was interviewed for the Dolphins so other teams see him as a HC" they will say) and Whipple so that they can keep the same offense or a version of it because they know they can't change it.
I think that Kliff has given Kyler everything he can do to be successful, but at this point it's not working, and Kliff doesn't know what he doesn't know. I don't think that Cam Turner or Spencer Whipple know anything more, either.

I agree with you that if they go with interim options it'll be Vance and Turner/Whipple, but I don't think that changes the outcome of the season. I don't expect that most fans calling for Kliff's head think that, either (not really). They just want a pound of flesh so they can feel better and then complain about how Vance Joseph doesn't look animated enough on the sideline or whatever.

I do disagree with you that Kliff would be hard to replace with an equivalent or better alternative. I don't know if Kliff is the worst head coach in the NFL, or bottom five, or whatever. I do think he's in the middle 12 or so. Just based on that, I think you can move someone in who would be as good as Kliff but in a different way that could be more effective in reaching Kyler (literally the only thing that matters to this franchise in the next 2-3 years).
 

GoldGloveschmidt

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I'm mad at Kliff for not changing the game plan at all from week to week, trying the same unsuccessful crap over and over and expecting different results. Each week I turn the game on thinking surely Kliff will do something other than predictable delayed handoffs, screen passes, and poorly designed QB runs up the middle. But he does it again.

The most entertaining thing about these games is finding out how the team will self sabotage on any given drive. Will they have consecutive false starts or holding penalties? Will they snap the ball over Kyler's head? Will we set ourselves behind the sticks with a sideways pass for a loss? Will Cody Ford decide not to block anybody and tackle the quarterback? Will we have a brutal drop followed by a great scramble on 4th down that results in a fumble? Will a player throw a lateral pass forwards on a goofy trick play again, because the coaches don't focus on details at practice?

Maybe we could do a bingo card for next week.
 

ASUCHRIS

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I'm mad at Kliff for not changing the game plan at all from week to week, trying the same unsuccessful crap over and over and expecting different results. Each week I turn the game on thinking surely Kliff will do something other than predictable delayed handoffs, screen passes, and poorly designed QB runs up the middle. But he does it again.

The most entertaining thing about these games is finding out how the team will self sabotage on any given drive. Will they have consecutive false starts or holding penalties? Will they snap the ball over Kyler's head? Will we set ourselves behind the sticks with a sideways pass for a loss? Will Cody Ford decide not to block anybody and tackle the quarterback? Will we have a brutal drop followed by a great scramble on 4th down that results in a fumble? Will a player throw a lateral pass forwards on a goofy trick play again, because the coaches don't focus on details at practice?

Maybe we could do a bingo card for next week.
May as well just bomb it every play...there's very little chance the team will make it down the field on a normal drive without destroying itself along the way.
 

Cheesebeef

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You guys are all nuts. Kliff isn’t getting fire in or likely out of this season. There is no way they are firing Kliff with five years left on his deal, then stand there and say Keim and his lone playoff victory in 10 years gets to name his fourth head coach.

And we know Keim ain’t going anywhere.

They will blame this season on suspensions and injuries. And probably fire VJ because his D by end of season will be bad enough to make them believe he can be the pound of flesh thrown to the fans.
 

Cheesebeef

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I'm mad at Kliff for not changing the game plan at all from week to week, trying the same unsuccessful crap over and over and expecting different results. Each week I turn the game on thinking surely Kliff will do something other than predictable delayed handoffs, screen passes, and poorly designed QB runs up the middle. But he does it again.

The most entertaining thing about these games is finding out how the team will self sabotage on any given drive. Will they have consecutive false starts or holding penalties? Will they snap the ball over Kyler's head? Will we set ourselves behind the sticks with a sideways pass for a loss? Will Cody Ford decide not to block anybody and tackle the quarterback? Will we have a brutal drop followed by a great scramble on 4th down that results in a fumble? Will a player throw a lateral pass forwards on a goofy trick play again, because the coaches don't focus on details at practice?

Maybe we could do a bingo card for next week.
I like the bingo card idea!
 

GoldGloveschmidt

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May as well just bomb it every play...there's very little chance the team will make it down the field on a normal drive without destroying itself along the way.

Saw a quote on another forum, from the athletic director at Texas Tech when he fired Kliff:

“We’ve talked on this show about our expectations and where we aspire to be and wanting to be relevant. But you are what your record says you are, and we’re not where we expect to be. You know, football is the ultimate team sport. You have 11 men on the field and you’re only going to be as successful as each individual executes their responsibility. Unfortunately, we just seem to continue to have lapses in focus, lack of discipline at certain times. Those mistakes, those penalties continue to affect us and the success we’re not experiencing right now.”

This is the same thing plaguing the team right now. This is a Kliff Kingsbury issue. Whether it's his practice routine, personality, whatever. Doesn't matter. We have been top 5 in penalties every one of his years. The football operation looks like a clown show every single week.
 

kerouac9

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I mean we really can’t be mad anyone other than the nfl for allowing bidwill to own the team who hired keim who chose the players and kliff by your logic.
I guess. I don't expect the ownership to fire their weakest member.

I do understand people being frustrated by the penalties, two-minute drill shenanigans, and everything else. That's definitely on Kliff and he should and probably will be fired for it barring some crazy turnaround.

I don't understand people being mad at play design and calling when we see every week people are running open. I don't understand people being mad about execution when Kliff can't make Robby Anderson catch the ball that hits him in the hands.

The interesting question is what would it take for Kliff to save his job? The Cards have 8 games left. If they went 5-3 over the next stretch, would that convince the team to save $5 million (or whatever) for the next year? If they want 4-2?

Also, can NBC flex out that Christmas Day SNF game? YOWZA it could be bleak.
 

Cheesebeef

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I guess. I don't expect the ownership to fire their weakest member.

I do understand people being frustrated by the penalties, two-minute drill shenanigans, and everything else. That's definitely on Kliff and he should and probably will be fired for it barring some crazy turnaround.

I don't understand people being mad at play design and calling when we see every week people are running open. I don't understand people being mad about execution when Kliff can't make Robby Anderson catch the ball that hits him in the hands.

The interesting question is what would it take for Kliff to save his job? The Cards have 8 games left. If they went 5-3 over the next stretch, would that convince the team to save $5 million (or whatever) for the next year? If they want 4-2?

Also, can NBC flex out that Christmas Day SNF game? YOWZA it could be bleak.
If they win 2 more games, his job is safe.
 

Dback Jon

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I think that Kliff has given Kyler everything he can do to be successful, but at this point it's not working, and Kliff doesn't know what he doesn't know. I don't think that Cam Turner or Spencer Whipple know anything more, either.
And don't see any reason to believe that.
 

DaHilg

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I guess. I don't expect the ownership to fire their weakest member.

I do understand people being frustrated by the penalties, two-minute drill shenanigans, and everything else. That's definitely on Kliff and he should and probably will be fired for it barring some crazy turnaround.

I don't understand people being mad at play design and calling when we see every week people are running open. I don't understand people being mad about execution when Kliff can't make Robby Anderson catch the ball that hits him in the hands.

The interesting question is what would it take for Kliff to save his job? The Cards have 8 games left. If they went 5-3 over the next stretch, would that convince the team to save $5 million (or whatever) for the next year? If they want 4-2?

Also, can NBC flex out that Christmas Day SNF game? YOWZA it could be bleak.
People aren’t running open. Britt is NOT an NFL offensive advisor..his clips are very selective and don’t take into consider MANY important variables.

You want to see wide open? Take a look at the Seahawks brill out of their TE that worked for 5 first downs including a 51 yarder to seal the game. Take a look at Miamis offense. There’s about 15 other offenses i could rattle off that are wide open.

Our playcalling is atrocious, predictable..non inventive.. you’re blind. It’s that obvious to everyone here.

Kyler HAS plenty of faults, but he’s dealing with possibly the worse deck of cards in the NFL currently
 

kerouac9

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People aren’t running open. Britt is NOT an NFL offensive advisor..his clips are very selective and don’t take into consider MANY important variables.

You want to see wide open? Take a look at the Seahawks brill out of their TE that worked for 5 first downs including a 51 yarder to seal the game. Take a look at Miamis offense. There’s about 15 other offenses i could rattle off that are wide open.

Our playcalling is atrocious, predictable..non inventive.. you’re blind. It’s that obvious to everyone here.

Kyler HAS plenty of faults, but he’s dealing with possibly the worse deck of cards in the NFL currently
Dude, I see it with my own eyes during games. People are open, and have been for as long as people have complained about Kliff's playcalling. If Kyler was connecting on these deep passes and getting the ball out faster, we're all having a good time.

Kliff didn't forget how to design and call plays between last year's 7-0 start and now.
 

Dback Jon

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Dude, I see it with my own eyes during games. People are open, and have been for as long as people have complained about Kliff's playcalling. If Kyler was connecting on these deep passes and getting the ball out faster, we're all having a good time.

Kliff didn't forget how to design and call plays between last year's 7-0 start and now.
He's using the same plays as last year, after everyone has figured them all out.
 
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