That’s Why You Fire Kliff

[Russ Smith]

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Some of that IMO is because we're in the shotgun so much. You can see it's harder for the linemen.

Hell twice already this year Price has gotten a penalty because he lost his balance while trying to hold the snap as he's sort of leaning to get up faster after the snap.

 

[BritCard]

Don’t think that’s possible based on your hot takes

What part of spending hours breaking down film and providing post after post of thoroughly researched stats and information do you consider "hot takes"?

Considering all you post are hot takes without qualification or a shred of evidence to back them up?

Actually I don't care. Put me on ignore and spare us both.

 

[Chopper0080]

I agree wholeheartedly. It’s up to himself if he wants to change. If he remains with the lack of awareness, that’s on him & he’ll never be what he wants to be. He’ll never win.

However, I do think it’s laughable that he can’t be schemed around.

I agree with you that he can, but as you said, that requires a change in his mentality which is hard to see happening.

 

[Russ Smith]

When I do "Why Kyler sucked vs the Seahawks Part II" later in the week and yet again it shows multiple guys open while Kyler contemplates the best place to snipe from in Seatown, everyone will again go "Oh so it's not Kliff, it's Kyler" like they did the first time.

Then immediately go back to shouting "Fire Kliff" after the next game. Everyone knows Kyler sucks right? Does everyone think Kyler will stop sucking if Kliff is gone?

Again for me it's simple we are not going to bench Kyler for Colt McCoy. So we need a coach who can help Kyler fix what's broken and it's pretty clear Kliff isn't that guy.

That may be unfair but that's how the NFL works. And also frankly we've seen enough good things from Kyler in 4 years to know he CAN play much better than he is playing. Much of that is on him but some of it is on the coach.

I read something today about a guy who played with Big Ben in Pittsburgh and he said early on Ben got by on natural ability, street ball, didn't work hard between games or offseason, always overweight etc. Finally coaches and guys on the team just basically said to him the limit on how good you are is you, and he started working harder. I assume that's being said to Kyler too, we need it to sink in

 

[DVontel]

I agree with you that he can, but as you said, that requires a change in his mentality which is hard to see happening.

Probably, but I do not want this regime to be the final qualifier for that. If he’s still like he is with the next regime, throw his ass out.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Probably, but I do not want this regime to be the final qualifier for that. If he’s still like he is with the next regime, throw his ass out.

That’s where I’m at.

 

[BritCard]

Again for me it's simple we are not going to bench Kyler for Colt McCoy. So we need a coach who can help Kyler fix what's broken and it's pretty clear Kliff isn't that guy.

That may be unfair but that's how the NFL works. And also frankly we've seen enough good things from Kyler in 4 years to know he CAN play much better than he is playing. Much of that is on him but some of it is on the coach.

I read something today about a guy who played with Big Ben in Pittsburgh and he said early on Ben got by on natural ability, street ball, didn't work hard between games or offseason, always overweight etc. Finally coaches and guys on the team just basically said to him the limit on how good you are is you, and he started working harder. I assume that's being said to Kyler too, we need it to sink in

The only reason I want Kyler benched is to help him and help the team.

His arrogance and ego are getting in the way of him fulfilling his potential and I hope a roasting followed by a game on the bench might bring him down a peg.

Especially if McCoy runs the offense better.

What could deflate his ego more than McCoy coming in and throwing 7.5 YPA and 2 TDs in a win as he watches from the bench?

 

[Arz101]

The only reason I want Kyler benched is to help him and help the team.

His arrogance and ego are getting in the way of him fulfilling his potential and I hope a roasting followed by a game on the bench might bring him down a peg.

Especially if McCoy runs the offense better.

What could deflate his ego more than McCoy coming in and throwing 7.5 YPA and 2 TDs in a win as he watches from the bench?

Murray doesn't care. He got his guaranteed money

 

[BritCard]

Murray doesn't care. He got his guaranteed money

True but people with ego's like Kyler care. Not enough to put the work in but they hate being embarrassed.

 

[bankybruce]

Because some people can never admit they’re wrong.

I can! I was 1000000% wrong!

 

[DVontel]

That’s where I’m at.

Selfishly, I wish there was a way Kyler actually played like a star again, but the team still lost games. Outside of one person, everyone acknowledges this roster is not even close to a SB contender, short-term or long-term.

 

[DaHilg]

What part of spending hours breaking down film and providing post after post of thoroughly researched stats and information do you consider "hot takes"?

Considering all you post are hot takes without qualification or a shred of evidence to back them up?

Actually I don't care. Put me on ignore and spare us both.

If you know my history, I surround the vast majority of my post with statistical facts. I love stats and facts (just as I like the stat that Kyler has been the most pressured QB by wide margin.. hurried more than any other QB in the league!). We can all do research on Brady, Mahomes, etc and pic out selective plays (even beyond the variables of pressure, play calling, coached progression, etc) and find player WIDE open w those HOF caliber QBs.

I’m sorry good sir-your personal video research of an NFL offense does not hold much if any merit.

 

[Russ Smith]

I really couldn't care about Kliff. I've wrote at length in the past about his weaknesses both in scheme and as a man manager. At the same time, and to be fair to the man, he works extremely hard, he's got better every year until this year and he is statistically the 4th best Cardinals HC since the merger.

But no, he's not great, and really I couldn't care less if they fired him. But it has to achieve something and I just don't see what. It feels purely reactionary.

It may well be they have to fire him just so they can move on and tell the players it was Kliff's fault as some kind of psychological salve for next season. "Everything's good now guys. Kliff has gone and everything will be better!". Until they hit the field.

The main issue is that if you move on you have to get someone better and this simply is not an attractive organisation and Kyler with his 6 YPA, study clauses and Twitter memes is not an attractive quarterback at the moment.

So if Kliff goes Keim goes. They are tied (or should be) at the hip. And I'd be fine with that if we brought in some great guy from outside the Org that would change the culture and attract a great coaching talent he has worked with. But we all know that won't happen.

It's going to be A-Dub with Mike pulling the strings. Steve Keim 2.0. The same culture and no connections outside the Org to source talent from. They will make Vance Joseph the HC and Spenser Whipple the OC and it will be terrible. Or they will run through some retreads that get fired at the end of this year.

And then what? I'm to expect Kyler who's been given everything possible by Kingsbury to succeed including a simplified college type scheme and verbiage and reduced responsibility (he isn't calling protections) and who doesn't have to sneak and can avoid all hits, I'm to expect him to suddenly get better having to learn a whole new scheme and play a whole new way?

So it's not that I give a crap about Kliff. It's simply that I think the alternative is worse. And that is on Keim and Mike for paying an unproven QB after year 3 that can only play a very specific type of football which further restricts your coaching options.

I would bet all my money that if kliff is fired they go with Vance ("He was interviewed for the Dolphins so other teams see him as a HC" they will say) and Whipple so that they can keep the same offense or a version of it because they know they can't change it.

One comment on what Kyler does. Price was quoted just last week talking about how he's trying to get up to speed in everything and he said that Kyler absolutely is changing plays at the LOS and calling protections.It was said last year too, in fact Kyler himself said when Hudson was out last year that it impacted his play not just because Hudson wasn't playing but because Hudson wasn't there to bounce off protections that Hudson helped him do that last year.

we were 2-2 when Hudson got the knee, 1-4 since. I think not having him there both as a blocker and as a guy to help Kyler with what he's seeing has been a huge loss for Kyler. Probably mjuch more than it SHOULD be but i think it's apparent that he has no confidence in either Harlow or Price, for good reason

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

If you know my history, I surround the vast majority of my post with statistical facts. I love stats and facts (just as I like the stat that Kyler has been the most pressured QB by wide margin.. hurried more than any other QB in the league!). We can all do research on Brady, Mahomes, etc and pic out selective plays (even beyond the variables of pressure, play calling, coached progression, etc) and find player WIDE open w those HOF caliber QBs.

I’m sorry good sir-your personal video research of an NFL offense does not hold much if any merit.

Cherry-picking a handful of plays per game where WR's are open to say Kyler is THE problem isn't intellectually honest if you're also not showing all the clips where WR's dropped balls, protection failures, bottom 5 in NFL running game, constant 2nd/3rd longs due to playcalling gaffes, etc. The entire offense is an absolute dumpster fire, Kyler is a part of that for sure but he's one guy. Kliff and Keim bear significant responsibility for most of the other 10 being terrible. Hell - Kliff and Keim also bear responsibility for Kyler being terrible too as they allegedly handpicked the kid and from what the Kliff-sexuals here tell me had the offense designed around him.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I guess. I don't expect the ownership to fire their weakest member.

I do understand people being frustrated by the penalties, two-minute drill shenanigans, and everything else. That's definitely on Kliff and he should and probably will be fired for it barring some crazy turnaround.

I don't understand people being mad at play design and calling when we see every week people are running open. I don't understand people being mad about execution when Kliff can't make Robby Anderson catch the ball that hits him in the hands.

The interesting question is what would it take for Kliff to save his job? The Cards have 8 games left. If they went 5-3 over the next stretch, would that convince the team to save $5 million (or whatever) for the next year? If they want 4-2?

Also, can NBC flex out that Christmas Day SNF game? YOWZA it could be bleak.

I can’t understand you’re being okay with:

-50 horizontal plays per game - for a team that no matter the changing personnel can’t execute it effectively
- few slants or drags, you know, plays that are designed so receivers catch the ball with forward momentum
- few combo routes where one route is meant to open the other - most of what I’ve seen from kliff’s playbook is premised on stretching the defense to its maximum and then relying upon individual players to win one-on-one battles - that works great in college, less so in the nfl
-continued use of AJ Green/Anderson when dortch is sitting on the bench. There is no argument in favor of their size as neither blocks, we aren’t throwing jump balls, and when we do neither of those guys comes down with them - get your most talented receivers on the damn field

I think there’s a ton to criticize kliff about in regards to both play design and play calling.

 

[DaHilg]

Just wow

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Dude, I see it with my own eyes during games. People are open, and have been for as long as people have complained about Kliff's playcalling. If Kyler was connecting on these deep passes and getting the ball out faster, we're all having a good time.

Kliff didn't forget how to design and call plays between last year's 7-0 start and now.

See I think this is where your blinded. Kyler could regress from being an mvp candidate during the 7-0 start last season but kliff - a failed college coach - can’t possibly regress from same start? Cmon now . . .

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

He's using the same plays as last year, after everyone has figured them all out.

Right. There’s a reason after 7-0 we went 4-7 last year. Teams caught onto his offense. Or did kyler just forget how to play QB in a couple weeks?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

You're pointing the finger at me? Who's actively calling for Kliff to be fired? For real?

It’s not that you’re not wanting him fired, but you are absolving him of fault for play design and play calling. I can’t figure out any other way to interpret your comments.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Kliff is a problem because of Kyler, thus needs to be replaced. Kyler isn't a problem because of Kliff. It's incredibly lazy to not look at Kyler's performances and see that he has issues that are independent of a head coach.

Some of us think it’s also incredibly lazy to fail to look at the full picture and realize that other than a hot 7-0 start that was at least in part driven by MVP-level performance by kyler that kliff has failed in every other coaching opportunity with a thus far unblemished record of ending seasons - every single one in his entire career - poorly.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I agree with you that he can, but as you said, that requires a change in his mentality which is hard to see happening.

And it ain’t gonna happen with a coach he doesn’t respect (who frankly, hasn’t earned any respect).

 

[BritCard]

Cherry-picking a handful of plays per game where WR's are open to say Kyler is THE problem isn't intellectually honest if you're also not showing all the clips where WR's dropped balls, protection failures, bottom 5 in NFL running game, constant 2nd/3rd longs due to playcalling gaffes, etc. The entire offense is an absolute dumpster fire, Kyler is a part of that for sure but he's one guy. Kliff and Keim bear significant responsibility for most of the other 10 being terrible. Hell - Kliff and Keim also bear responsibility for Kyler being terrible too as they allegedly handpicked the kid and from what the Kliff-sexuals here tell me had the offense designed around him.

Nobody should show the dozen or so plays where Kyler is bad to prove Kyler is playing bad?

The point of my thread was not to point out things we already know but the things you can't see on TV footage. Especially in response to "It's the scheme. Nobody is open"

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The only reason I want Kyler benched is to help him and help the team.

His arrogance and ego are getting in the way of him fulfilling his potential and I hope a roasting followed by a game on the bench might bring him down a peg.

Especially if McCoy runs the offense better.

What could deflate his ego more than McCoy coming in and throwing 7.5 YPA and 2 TDs in a win as he watches from the bench?

The flip side is what happens when this dysfunctional team is just as bad, or worse, with McCoy? Now you’ve cemented kylers mindset. And anyone that thinks McCoy is going to step in a right this ship is delusional. The entire team is broken.

 

[kerouac9]

I can’t understand you’re being okay with:

-50 horizontal plays per game - for a team that no matter the changing personnel can’t execute it effectively
- few slants or drags, you know, plays that are designed so receivers catch the ball with forward momentum
- few combo routes where one route is meant to open the other - most of what I’ve seen from kliff’s playbook is premised on stretching the defense to its maximum and then relying upon individual players to win one-on-one battles - that works great in college, less so in the nfl
-continued use of AJ Green/Anderson when dortch is sitting on the bench. There is no argument in favor of their size as neither blocks, we aren’t throwing jump balls, and when we do neither of those guys comes down with them - get your most talented receivers on the damn field

I think there’s a ton to criticize kliff about in regards to both play design and play calling.

Obviously 50 is an exaggeration. Kliff can't control where Kyler throws the ball. We've shown may times that there are options downfield that Kyler doesn't want to take. At the same time, where is the famed elusiveness of Rondale Moore? If you watch other games around the NFL (I assume you do) there are these plays all over the place -- but the other teams are somehow able to get yardage out of them. These are extensions of the running game, but the running game can't do anything so we're trying to stay a little ahead of the chains.

I think we don't run more slants and drags because Kyler can't throw them over the offensive line or see when they're open.

There are tons of combo routes. Anytime you see a deep in beneath a corner post that's a combo route. C'mon, man. This is elementary stuff.

I don't know what to tell you — I tried to explain this all offseason. Kliff isn't going to put a little guy on the outside. We'd probably be seeing a lot of Hopkins-Hollywood-Anderson alignments right now if he were healthy. Would Dortch block? I doubt it.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Obviously 50 is an exaggeration. Kliff can't control where Kyler throws the ball. We've shown may times that there are options downfield that Kyler doesn't want to take. At the same time, where is the famed elusiveness of Rondale Moore? If you watch other games around the NFL (I assume you do) there are these plays all over the place -- but the other teams are somehow able to get yardage out of them. These are extensions of the running game, but the running game can't do anything so we're trying to stay a little ahead of the chains.

I think we don't run more slants and drags because Kyler can't throw them over the offensive line or see when they're open.

There are tons of combo routes. Anytime you see a deep in beneath a corner post that's a combo route. C'mon, man. This is elementary stuff.

I don't know what to tell you — I tried to explain this all offseason. Kliff isn't going to put a little guy on the outside. We'd probably be seeing a lot of Hopkins-Hollywood-Anderson alignments right now if he were healthy. Would Dortch block? I doubt it.

Yes, it’s called hyperbole. But those horizontal plays are not a kyler choice as you intimate. Those are called plays. That’s not a read kyler is making. There’s no secondary receiver on those plays. I know you know that too. And I think we’ve seen moore’s strength and elusiveness when he’s in space. But the horizontal plays are (a) so predictable and (b) have terrible blocking receivers out there that it doesn’t matter who catches that pass. But kliff not only can’t see that these don’t work, he repeatedly pounds those plays. Who cares if they work for other teams? They don’t for us and kliff calls them over and over and over. It would be one thing if they were run to set up a pump and downfield throw, but we’ve never seen that either, ever.

And we’ve now seen in the past two weeks slants and drags work, and work big. But we have seen ZERO of these for the past three years and 6 games prior. Forget about kylers height, we have evidence the past two weeks they are possible.

And you’re right he’s going to stick with the big guys, to his detriment. Is dortch going be worse than aj blocking? Doubt it. It’s idiotic. Just because you called kliff’s idiocy prior to the season doesn’t make it not idiocy.

And that combo route you just named is a rare rare beast in this offense.